Pre-Wedding Information for Carl Philip and Sofia

[Stefan]

I don't like the S in the Monogramm of Carl Philip and Sofia. It is similar to the S in the Monogramms of the Royal Couple and of Queen Silvia which i also don't like. If i remember rigth at first the royal Couple had a differentn Monogramm where the S different. But at some point it was changed.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Let us keep things in perspective... a monogram these days is just a little icon on paper or cards. It is not -like on internet- so big and powerful.

Sometimes it is woven into table linen, but then it is only in relief of jacquard-woven, so that means all in one colour and only visible when you have a closer look to the texture. See an example: the monogram of the Kronprinsessparet is woven into table linen or another example: of Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima

I am sure that the damast tableware of Carl-Philip and Sofia will look awesomely great with their traditional royal mongram woven into their precious silk, damast and linen, nicely engraved into their silver and proud above their letters.

 

[LadyFinn]

I don't like the S in the Monogramm of Carl Philip and Sofia. It is similar to the S in the Monogramms of the Royal Couple and of Queen Silvia which i also don't like. If i remember rigth at first the royal Couple had a differentn Monogramm where the S different. But at some point it was changed.

The monogram of the Royal Couple in 1984 at a first day cover was this
Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia , FDC på Tradera.com - FDC

And in 1985 it was the new one
FDC Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia 24.1 1985 på

 

[Stefan]

The monogram of the Royal Couple in 1984 at a first day cover was this
Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia , FDC på Tradera.com - FDC

And in 1985 it was the new one
FDC Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia 24.1 1985 på

I like the one from 1984 much more. What was the reason it was changed.

Let us keep things in perspective... a monogram these days is just a little icon on paper or cards. It is not -like on internet- so big and powerful.

Sometimes it is woven into table linen, but then it is only in relief of jacquard-woven, so that means all in one colour and only visible when you have a closer look to the texture. See an example: the monogram of the Kronprinsessparet is woven into table linen or another example: of Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima

I am sure that the damast tableware of Carl-Philip and Sofia will look awesomely great with their traditional royal mongram woven into their precious silk, damast and linen, nicely engraved into their silver and proud above their letters.

For the Wedding of Victoria and Daniel a special Carpet was made in blue with the moniogramm woven in it. It was then placed at the Palace balustrade at Logarden when the Couple arrived back at the Palace after the Carrgage Tour afer the Wedding-

 

[LadyFinn]

I like the one from 1984 much more. Waht was the reason it was changed.

I haven't found out why it was changed. I also like the original monogram much more.

 

[Skippy]

So, P.C-P designed/helped design the monogram himself?
Then I'm hoping he does indeed do some more designing for his wedding and design her a tiara or other jewelry...

Apparently he did, yes.

Let us keep things in perspective... a monogram these days is just a little icon on paper or cards. It is not -like on internet- so big and powerful.

Sometimes it is woven into table linen, but then it is only in relief of jacquard-woven, so that means all in one colour and only visible when you have a closer look to the texture. See an example: the monogram of the Kronprinsessparet is woven into table linen or another example: of Prince Willem-Alexander and Princess Máxima

I am sure that the damast tableware of Carl-Philip and Sofia will look awesomely great with their traditional royal mongram woven into their precious silk, damast and linen, nicely engraved into their silver and proud above their letters.

Wow, at least someone who doesn't jump on it. To be honest, I am surprised by your positive reaction, but it's a welcome change and I agree with what you say. It's not like a life-altering change or invention has been made, it's just something that is part of their impending status.

 

[LadyFinn]

The court florist, Claes Carlsson, has asked the students of the adult florist program at the Östersjögymnasiet in Karlshamn to help with the flower decorations to the wedding. 11 students taking the 1-year florist training program for adults are going to Stockholm on 9th June.
Skolan fixar blommor till prinsens bröllop Kvällsposten
Translation

 

[carlota]

i have nothing against the new monogram, although sofia's S doesn't seem very prominent. and why haven't they released sofia's individual monogram? maybe they are expecting she may refuse a title just like chris did? (chris didn't get a monogram in so doing)

The court florist, Claes Carlsson, has asked the students of the adult florist program at the Östersjögymnasiet in Karlshamn to help with the flower decorations to the wedding. 11 students taking the 1-year florist training program for adults are going to Stockholm on 9th June.
Skolan fixar blommor till prinsens bröllop Kvällsposten
Translation

i think it's a great idea they are including these students, it will surely make them very proud to contribute to such an event and will be a real motivation.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The monogram of the Royal Couple in 1984 at a first day cover was this
Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia , FDC på Tradera.com - FDC

And in 1985 it was the new one
FDC Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia 24.1 1985 på

The first monogram of the royal couple looks a bit too much like that of the company CGS. There is no intertwining, so the monogram does not make clear it is about two individuals married together. That is why I like the newer monogram better.

 

[Princess Robijn]

The monogram of the Royal Couple in 1984 at a first day cover was this
Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia , FDC på Tradera.com - FDC

And in 1985 it was the new one
FDC Konung Carl XVI Gustaf och Drottning Silvia 24.1 1985 på

I like the second one a lot better. I wonder why they changed it.

 

[Kingen]

I don't like the S in the Monogramm of Carl Philip and Sofia. It is similar to the S in the Monogramms of the Royal Couple and of Queen Silvia which i also don't like. If i remember rigth at first the royal Couple had a differentn Monogramm where the S different. But at some point it was changed.

I think that some things are mixed up here. And it is actually described in the press release from the Royal Court. The Royal Couple have two existing monograms, so there has never been a change.

The Royal Court writes: Karl-Erik Forsberg created a monogram for King Carl Gustaf in 1973, and for the Royal Couple, King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia, in 1976. The letter monogram CGS was used for the Royal Couple's wedding in 1976 on the parade cover that covered the steps from Logården to the East Gate for The King and Queen's entry into the Royal Palace. The King and Queen's face-to-face monogram was used on the invitations, among other things.

So what is describes as the first monogram in this thread is by the court describes as the letter monogram. It's still in use, example for wreaths for funerals. I don't have a picture right now, but I'm sure other has. The other one is described as a face-to face monogram, a classical mirror monogram. This is the monogram we are most used to see, example in publications and on invitations. By the way I really like the mirror monogram, so simple and elegant though it's mirrored.

 

[Kingen]

i have nothing against the new monogram, although sofia's S doesn't seem very prominent. and why haven't they released sofia's individual monogram? maybe they are expecting she may refuse a title just like chris did? (chris didn't get a monogram in so doing)

I don't know if there is any customs fro this. But in the case of Victoria and Daniel their joint monogram was released in December 2009, while Prince Daniel's monogram was released just a week before the wedding. It has then been public that he would become a Prince of Sweden about two weeks before that. So it's still a possibility that Sofia becomes a princess.

 

[LadyGabrielle]

I'm sorry to ask if it's already been asked but, where will they live once they are married?

 

[Sarahbellar]

I'm sorry to ask if it's already been asked but, where will they live once they are married?

I believe they will live in Lilian and Bertil's house.

 

[LadyFinn]

I'm sorry to ask if it's already been asked but, where will they live once they are married?

They will move to Villa Solbacken, which prince Bertil left to Carl Philip at his will in 1997 when he died. Princess Lilian had the right to stay there as long as she lived. Big renovations started at Villa Solbacken a couple of months ago. Jan Lindman from the court has told to swedish press that the villa will not be ready at the time of the wedding. The renovations take time because Carl Philip and Sofia want to make big changes to the villa and the whole villa must be examined, if there is asbestos like often used in houses as old as Villa Solbacken.

 

[Mbruno]

One of the year's big spending is prince Carl Philip and Sofia Hellqvist's wedding. It will cost over six million if it will be as lavish as princess Madeleine's.
Then the taxpayers, through the allocation to the royal household, paid three million and the rest the king paid from his own pocket.
According to Lindman wedding can result in becoming a deficit of Court Administration - just as it was after Madeleine's wedding.
Then you have to re-prioritize and make new considerations in the budget.http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article20515098.ab

I don't think the taxpayers should pay anything for Carl Philip's wedding. Unlike Victoria, he is not the heir apparent and his wedding should not be a state ceremony.

 

[LadyFinn]

I don't think the taxpayers should pay anything for Carl Philip's wedding. Unlike Victoria, he is not the heir apparent and his wedding should not be a state ceremony.

The court asked for more money in the spring 2014. The court wrote then to the government "One of the major costs listed for the 2013 was the wedding of Princess Madeleine and Chris O'Neill, the court writes at the budget documents: Princess Madeleine's marriage with Mr. Christopher O'Neill at the Royal Palace was a state ceremonial affair in which, among other things the foreign heads of state and royalty attended. The ceremony has also involved extensive planning and work that involved many parts of the organization."
Kungen begär extra apanage till nästa år Nyheter Expressen

Although it was said before Madeleine's wedding, that the king would pay the wedding, the court made it a state ceremonial affair and paid the half of the costs from the allocation they get from the taxpayers. So it seems natural, that if the part of the costs of Madeleine's wedding were paid from the allocation/apanage given to the court, also a part of the costs of Carl Philip's wedding will be paid from the apanage = taxpayers' money.
Of course that is not right at all. The money from the taxpayers shouldn't have been used at Madeleine's wedding and shouldn't be used now.

 

[LadyFinn]

Press release from the court
Officiants at the wedding of Prince Carl Philip and Miss Sofia Hellqvist on Saturday, June 13, 2015 are Royal Court Chief Chaplain, Bishop Emeritus Lars-Göran Lönnermark and Vicar of the Royal Court, Michael Bjerkhagen.
Officianter vid vigseln mellan Prins Carl Philip och Fröken Sofia Hellqvist - Sveriges Kungahus
Translation

Same priests than at Madeleine's and Chris's wedding.

 

[Jacknch]

With regard to the cost of the wedding and it being part paid for by the tax-payer, I can see that this might prove controversial. However, the way I see it is that certain elements of the wedding such as the ceremonials/processions are more for the public's benefit than for the couple themselves.
Seeing horses, carriages, pomp and ceremony is often appreciated by the public (generally) whether it is associated with a royal wedding or other national events. So in a way, it makes sense that, because public servants (i.e. the guards/soldiers etc) will be carrying out duties of procession and ceremonials, security etc, it is paid for by the tax-payer.

The tax-payer would pay these people's wages in any event whether they are doing ceremonials for a royal wedding or spending the day in barracks.

Obviously the more "personal" elements such as flowers, clothes, reception etc should be paid for privately. I'm sure that's how it works for most royal weddings.

 

[Tilia C.]

Good point Jacknch, it is only right that the costs for the ceremonials should be paid by the the state. After all parts of the Royal Wedding are a rather public event which draws thousand into the streets and in front of the tv screens. Attendance of officials and heads of state will be smaller than at the crown princessly wedding, but there will be some. The wedding will showcase the country on an international level and as a side effect advertise Sweden as a holiday destination. So I'm sure that it will pay off to have all the splendour in place.

Also the whole security issue should be shouldered by the state. After all it is only because of the public interest that all this security is needed. If noone cared for the wedding, there were no need to have all the police in place.

 

[LadyFinn]

But it was totally ridiculous that almost half of the costs of Madeleine's wedding was paid with the taxpayers' money, because the director of the court's press department Bertil Ternert told to the swedish media in November 2012:
"It's not the taxpayers, but King Carl Gustaf who pays the wedding with money from the private fortune"
When Crown Princess Victoria married Prince Daniel, the State paid. It will be not so when the little sister proceeds to the altar.
The issue of payment came up when Councilor Staffan Norberg from Södertälje, wrote an article in the local newspaper, in which he questions the reasonableness of that the taxpayers pay the cost of Madeleine's wedding.
Now the king has ruled that it is he - and not taxpayers - who will bear the piper when it's time for weddings and large parties.
"I responded and corrected his claim false", says Bertil Ternert to Expressen about Staffan Norberg's debate article.
"And it is not necessary that the state, that is, the taxpayers, should pay Princess Madeleine's wedding. It is the king who pays. The Bernadotte family has fortune as they managed to collect in a few hundred years", said Ternert.
Kungen ska betala för Madeleines bröllop Nyheter Expressen

But in the spring 2014 it was told that about three million SEK was paid by the taxpayers.

There was and is no need for corteges at Carl Philip's and Madeleine's weddings. They could have gone married at the Royal Chapel and have a dinner. If they/the king wanted the corteges, they could have paid the cost from them from their private fortune.

 

[Jacknch]

There was and is no need for corteges at Carl Philip's and Madeleine's weddings. They could have gone married at the Royal Chapel and have a dinner. If they/the king wanted the corteges, they could have paid the cost from them from their private fortune.

I agree that strictly speaking, there is no need for corteges (horses and carriages/processions through the streets etc) for Carl Philip's and Madeleine's weddings, nor for any royal wedding at all.

However, the facilities for enabling such pomp and ceremony are there already and do not need paying for: the guards, horses, uniforms, carriages, horse-feed, soldiers, service personnel etc already exist, so the King does not need to hire them specially for the occasion. Whether they all stay in barracks, get sent for duties abroad or go on parade (for instance for a royal wedding) it all costs the same, there is no difference to the tax-payer.

Perhaps you mean that the tax-payer should have a more direct say in how service personnel are employed or used, or that the law should be changed to allow them to be private-hired?

 

[Frelinghighness]

Of course I am not a Swedish taxpayer but it really seems to be a drop in the bucket to put some interest in Sweden. People love weddings and the Swedish rf are particularly attractive rf and do ceremony so well.

 

[Mbruno]

I agree that strictly speaking, there is no need for corteges (horses and carriages/processions through the streets etc) for Carl Philip's and Madeleine's weddings, nor for any royal wedding at all.

However, the facilities for enabling such pomp and ceremony are there already and do not need paying for: the guards, horses, uniforms, carriages, horse-feed, soldiers, service personnel etc already exist, so the King does not need to hire them specially for the occasion. Whether they all stay in barracks, get sent for duties abroad or go on parade (for instance for a royal wedding) it all costs the same, there is no difference to the tax-payer.

Perhaps you mean that the tax-payer should have a more direct say in how service personnel are employed or used, or that the law should be changed to allow them to be private-hired?

If, as Lady Finn said, the State footed the bill for half of Madeleine's wedding costs, I assume the government must have paid for more than just the carriage procession, the ceremonial guard and security in general.

I am curious though to see how the government will handle the Court's request this time. Back when Madeleine got married, there was a conservative coalition in power. Now, there is a left-wing Social Democratic government. Given the Left's occasional flirting with republicanism, do you think the government will be more reluctant to pay for CP's wedding ?

 

[angieuk]

Is it traditional in Sweden for the bride to change into a day dress/suit to leave by carriage for their honeymoon?

I understand the wedding is at 4 pm, how long will live coverage continue for?

Are guests arriving in summer/dresses/suits or long evening gowns?

 

[LadyFinn]

Is it traditional in Sweden for the bride to change into a day dress/suit to leave by carriage for their honeymoon?

I understand the wedding is at 4 pm, how long will live coverage continue for?

Are guests arriving in summer/dresses/suits or long evening gowns?

No, the bride doesn't leave by carriage to a honeymoon, at least Victoria and Madeleine didn't. Victoria and Daniel left the Royal Palace secretly at night, they left from their party when some guests were still dancing.
The wedding is at 4.30 pm, the court hasn't informed yet how the wedding will be shown on TV, it seems logical that it will be SVT which shows the wedding. The court will give a press release about that. The dress code will surely be white tie and long evening gowns, like at Victoria's and Madeleine's weddings. Anything else would be really a surprise.

 

[carlota]

Is it traditional in Sweden for the bride to change into a day dress/suit to leave by carriage for their honeymoon?

I understand the wedding is at 4 pm, how long will live coverage continue for?

Are guests arriving in summer/dresses/suits or long evening gowns?

madeleine's wedding coverage ended after the royal group photo opportunity after the wedding and the cruise when their guests arrived to the palace for the banquet. i believe victoria's ended after the banquet, but CP's will most likely resemble madeleine's.

 

[Tilia C.]

Yes, in Sweden you don't usually watch the going away after the wedding. The usual thing is to have a reception after the wedding, followed by dinner, followed by a ball with the bridal dance being just before midnight.

 

[Stefan]

Yes, in Sweden you don't usually watch the going away after the wedding. The usual thing is to have a reception after the wedding, followed by dinner, followed by a ball with the bridal dance being just before midnight.

I think not even a the Wedding of the King and Queen which was during the day and ended probably somewhat on the afgternoon they where seen leaving for the Honeymoon.
But i rmemeber at the Wedding of Frederik and Mary in Denmark there where Videoclips showing the Car with them leaving Fredensborg Castle.

 

[Stefan]

If, as Lady Finn said, the State footed the bill for half of Madeleine's wedding costs, I assume the government must have paid for more than just the carriage procession, the ceremonial guard and security in general.

I am curious though to see how the government will handle the Court's request this time. Back when Madeleine got married, there was a conservative coalition in power. Now, there is a left-wing Social Democratic government. Given the Left's occasional flirting with republicanism, do you think the government will be more reluctant to pay for CP's wedding ?

But was there extra Money giving to the Royal Court for the Wedding of Madleine. I thought it was taken from the annual Appanage given to the King by the Goverment.