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  #81  
Old 12-02-2017, 03:57 PM
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Any offiziell Photos?
Still don't see a proper/nice photo of litte Gabriel' s face
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  #82  
Old 12-02-2017, 04:41 PM
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Any offiziell Photos?
Still don't see a proper/nice photo of litte Gabriel' s face
Then you need spectacles
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  #83  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:16 PM
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Any offiziell Photos?
Still don't see a proper/nice photo of litte Gabriel' s face
We did get some fairly good photos of Gabriel at the christening, but I'm also wondering when we'll see the official ones. Even photos of Gabriel in the royal cradle haven't been released, as is usual for Swedish royal christenings.

How many days did it take for Alexander's official photos to be released? I can't remember.
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  #84  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:32 PM
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He already is the Duke of Dalarna. He got his name and dukedom on the same day.

Her descendants won't be linked to Dalarna via the Dukedoms. In Sweden these titles are personal, so Gabriel is linked to this dukedom but his descendants won't.

Regardless whether he is the duke now or later it was a very nice gesture that Sofia made to her son, the family and the dukedom. Be it personal or otherwise it the gesture was personal. I am not someone that knows *everything* here, like some are that have the need to always put others in their place which I don't take kindly to.
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  #85  
Old 12-02-2017, 05:45 PM
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Here's 2 video's from the Christening of HRH Prince Gabriel of Sweden.



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  #86  
Old 12-02-2017, 06:25 PM
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Her descendants won't be linked to Dalarna via the Dukedoms. In Sweden these titles are personal, so Gabriel is linked to this dukedom but his descendants won't.
It may be very well that, in the future, the children of Gabriel may NOT have the title of Prince/ss of Sweden, Duke/Duchess of X (i.e. limiting those titles to the children and grandchildren of tge monarch). Instead, they may bear titles from the Duchy of Dalarna (whatever that may be) or be titleless.

Even if the above does not eventuate, Gabriel's, and indeed Sofia's descendants will be linked to the dukedom. We, as avid members of this Forum, illustrate when a previous dukedom was held etc. Historians will state that X, is the great great grandchild of Gabriel, a Prince of Sweden, Duke of Dalarna, whose mother was born in Dalarna.
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  #87  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:13 PM
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I like Carl Philip but it is hard for me to see him as King of Sweden because to me Victoria is the quintessential monarch-in-waiting. However I remember reading some years ago that he was approached by Estonia to be its King, now that is an interesting thought.
As a side comment, Art. 8 of the Swedish Act of Succession says that a prince or princess of the Royal House of Sweden cannot become the sovereign of a foreign country without the consent of the Swedish King and the Swedish parliament; otherwise, he or she and his or her respective descendants are removed from the line of succession to the Swedish throne.
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  #88  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
Regardless whether he is the duke now or later it was a very nice gesture that Sofia made to her son, the family and the dukedom. Be it personal or otherwise it the gesture was personal. I am not someone that knows *everything* here, like some are that have the need to always put others in their place which I don't take kindly to.
My apologies, I know I can come across as a know-all (which of course I am not - there is always more to learn). Hopefully others found the information useful.

I agree that it was a nice gesture on Sofia's part to make this nod to Dalarna. To me it is also a confirmation that this dukedom was picked because Sofia is from Dalarna - which I think many suspected but this gesture confirms that to me.
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  #89  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
As a side comment, Art. 8 of the Swedish Act of Succession says that a prince or princess of the Royal House of Sweden cannot become the sovereign of a foreign country without the consent of the Swedish King and the Swedish parliament; otherwise, he or she and his or her respective descendants are removed from the line of succession to the Swedish throne.
If CP was truly asked to do this - and would be interested. It seems only logical that he would give up his and his descendants right to the Swedish throne.

I guess that would mean that Madeleine and her children would stay in the Swedish succession (and not be in line to both the Swedish and Estonian throne) - in this hypothetical situation.
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  #90  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:19 PM
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I recall Edward was also offered the position by some. Seems some in Estonia would be happy to adopt a younger son as heir

Well if CP was king of Estonia he wouldn't need to be in line for the Swedish throne anyways. Besides, with Estelle and Oscar, he isn't going to get close.

Never was going to happen, but funny to think of the what ifs anyways

Quote:
I guess that would mean that Madeleine and her children would stay in the Swedish succession (and not be in line to both the Swedish and Estonian throne) - in this hypothetical situation.
Know hypothetical, but why would it effect Madeleine? It would just bump her up further in succession. I would assume the heirs to the Estonian throne would be his sons, not his sister and her kids.
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  #91  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I always find Carl Philip a really poised young man with a regal but approachable attitude. He would have been a fine King. He reminds me of Don Felipe.
Really ? Felipe and Carl Philip have completely different personalities IMHO. Felipe is somewhat of an intellectual and has always taken his royal duties and his preparation to ascend the throne very seriously. CP on the other hand strikes me as a little bit of a playboy and not particularly smart. I guess his upbringing would have been different if he had remained the heir to the throne, but still I can't see CP growing up to be like Felipe.
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  #92  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava View Post
It may be very well that, in the future, the children of Gabriel may NOT have the title of Prince/ss of Sweden, Duke/Duchess of X (i.e. limiting those titles to the children and grandchildren of tge monarch). Instead, they may bear titles from the Duchy of Dalarna (whatever that may be) or be titleless.

Even if the above does not eventuate, Gabriel's, and indeed Sofia's descendants will be linked to the dukedom. We, as avid members of this Forum, illustrate when a previous dukedom was held etc. Historians will state that X, is the great great grandchild of Gabriel, a Prince of Sweden, Duke of Dalarna, whose mother was born in Dalarna.
Yes, in references to 'descending' from Gabriel his Dukedom might be mentioned - but the title of 'Duke of Dalarna' will not be passed on.

It will be interesting to see what decisions will be made in relation to CP's (and Madeleines) grandchildren. I am sure king Carl Gustaf wouldn't want them to be titleless (as the male-line heirs) but I hope they will limit the Prince(ss) of Sweden titles to children and grandchildren of the monarch [had Madeleine's children not been awarded princely titles, I might have preferred male-line princes to pass on their titles but having everyone pass on their titles is not feasible IMO).

My guess would be that the 'Count of Bernadotte' title might be used for (at least) male-line descendants - unless that at that time would still be considered as strongly related to 'unapproved' marriages. Prince(ss) Bernadotte might be an alternative option.

However, we're getting off-topic. Probably better for a Swedish titles-topic.
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  #93  
Old 12-02-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Know hypothetical, but why would it effect Madeleine? It would just bump her up further in succession. I would assume the heirs to the Estonian throne would be his sons, not his sister and her kids.
A short line of succession is always a risk, so for Estonia it would be helpful if they wouldn't have only two minor princess in line to the throne but also 4 others (a king's younger sister and her children would normally be in line to the throne after his own children).
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  #94  
Old 12-03-2017, 05:41 AM
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Expressen's royal expert Karin Lennmor yesterday at her chronicle
How much you can modify the royal traditions?
Lennmor writes that two things really surprised - Princess Sofia's unusual choice of outfit and the choice of music.
It felt and was seen that the christening details were designed by the will of Sofia. She goes her own way, this princess. Unlike her two sisters-in-law, who both are significantly more traditionally bound.
When the protagonists Prince Gabriel, Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip entered the Chapel, a whisper went through the congregation. Sofia was wearing a folk costume - and, as far as I know, the first time in history, a royal is wearing folk costume on a christening ...
But the biggest question is - Is it approriate to break the protocol by completely ignoring the dress code? Did Sofia consult with anyone, or did she decide entirely herself?
Surprise number two was the choice of music. We already know that both Carl Philip and Sofia have some unconventional music tastes...
Now it was another surprise. Lena Willemark from Älvdalen sang two pieces; a newly written tribute to Gabriel and a translated South African folk song "Think of me".
I usually think it's fun with new thinking, but how much can you modify the royal traditions? If there is a protocol, should it be followed? We actually talk about writing royal family history.
Sofia perhaps should learn a little from Crown Princess Victoria? She is the most traditional in the family - she looks back on history and likes to repeat it. She also tries to convey these feelings to her children Estelle and Oscar.
That the Crown Princess family chose to settle at Haga Palace, is a way to tie the story together. Here both her dad and grandparents have lived before her...
Do I sound grouchy when I complain about Sofia? I like her forward spirit, that she softened Carl Philip, that she dares to focus on important issues like dyslexia, or to her own Project Playground?
But perhaps she should squint a little on how Victoria and Madeleine have handled the royal heritage and have a little respect for royal traditions.
Next spring Madeleine's third child will be christened. It will be more traditional, I promise. Both in terms of music selection and clothing.
Hur mycket kan man rucka på de kungliga traditionerna_ _ Karin Lennmor _ Expressen
Translation

It is interesting that Karin Lennmor now is rather critical towards Sofia, in 2014 she as the editor-in-chief of Svensk Damtidning after Carl Philip and Sofia's engagement published a statement at the website of SD that SD will not publish any negative comments about Sofia - but they published negative comments of other members of the royal family, and Chris.
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  #95  
Old 12-03-2017, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Expressen's royal expert Karin Lennmor yesterday at her chronicle
How much you can modify the royal traditions?
Lennmor writes that two things really surprised - Princess Sofia's unusual choice of outfit and the choice of music.
It felt and was seen that the christening details were designed by the will of Sofia. She goes her own way, this princess. Unlike her two sisters-in-law, who both are significantly more traditionally bound.
When the protagonists Prince Gabriel, Princess Sofia and Prince Carl Philip entered the Chapel, a whisper went through the congregation. Sofia was wearing a folk costume - and, as far as I know, the first time in history, a royal is wearing folk costume on a christening ...
But the biggest question is - Is it approriate to break the protocol by completely ignoring the dress code? Did Sofia consult with anyone, or did she decide entirely herself?
Surprise number two was the choice of music. We already know that both Carl Philip and Sofia have some unconventional music tastes...
Now it was another surprise. Lena Willemark from Älvdalen sang two pieces; a newly written tribute to Gabriel and a translated South African folk song "Think of me".
I usually think it's fun with new thinking, but how much can you modify the royal traditions? If there is a protocol, should it be followed? We actually talk about writing royal family history.
Sofia perhaps should learn a little from Crown Princess Victoria? She is the most traditional in the family - she looks back on history and likes to repeat it. She also tries to convey these feelings to her children Estelle and Oscar.
That the Crown Princess family chose to settle at Haga Palace, is a way to tie the story together. Here both her dad and grandparents have lived before her...
Do I sound grouchy when I complain about Sofia? I like her forward spirit, that she softened Carl Philip, that she dares to focus on important issues like dyslexia, or to her own Project Playground?
But perhaps she should squint a little on how Victoria and Madeleine have handled the royal heritage and have a little respect for royal traditions.
Next spring Madeleine's third child will be christened. It will be more traditional, I promise. Both in terms of music selection and clothing.
Hur mycket kan man rucka på de kungliga traditionerna_ _ Karin Lennmor _ Expressen
Translation

It is interesting that Karin Lennmor now is rather critical towards Sofia, in 2014 she as the editor-in-chief of Svensk Damtidning after Carl Philip and Sofia's engagement published a statement at the website of SD that SD will not publish any negative comments about Sofia - but they published negative comments of other members of the royal family, and Chris.


I find your post interesting when I saw the traditional outfit I thought did I forget that they do that. No I didn’t remember anyone wearing it. I didn’t have any idea why she did so I understand a bit more now. All very interesting
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  #96  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:04 AM
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Ms Lennmor talking about a folk costume yes/no and claiming that Victoria upholds "tradition". Folk costume at the one hand. A fitness trainer at the other hand. If Victoria was so keen on traditions she would have abstained from her rights in in favour of her brother (wasn't it "tradition" until today's very day that the eldest son is King?), she should have married a royal or aristocratic partner (it was never a "tradition" to see the fitness trainer as a Prince of Sweden) and if Victoria was so much more on tradition, why then "Estelle" as a name?

Conclusion: Ms Lennmor was determined to write her "article" with vinegar and used far-sought futilities as "arguments".
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  #97  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:14 AM
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My apologies, I know I can come across as a know-all (which of course I am not - there is always more to learn). Hopefully others found the information useful.

I agree that it was a nice gesture on Sofia's part to make this nod to Dalarna. To me it is also a confirmation that this dukedom was picked because Sofia is from Dalarna - which I think many suspected but this gesture confirms that to me.
Indeed, I am continually learning from the useful information on the forum, and read with interest your (very much respectful) posts.

It is interesting that dissimilar to the ducal titles of German, French, or British royal princes, the ducal titles of the Swedish princes never became inheritable.
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  #98  
Old 12-03-2017, 07:27 AM
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A short line of succession is always a risk, so for Estonia it would be helpful if they wouldn't have only two minor princess in line to the throne but also 4 others (a king's younger sister and her children would normally be in line to the throne after his own children).
Funny but even thought I live in Estonia, I haven't heard that prince Carl Philip has been approached by Estonia to be its king. For something like this we would have to change the constitution because Estonia is a parliamentary republic where the President is a ceremonial figurehead. So we do not have much use for some foreign prince/princess. Besides Estonian constitution avoids concentration of too much power in one person's hands due to our history.
I guess this "proposal" for prince Carl Philip was meant as some kind of a joke and even thought Estonia and Sweden have good relationship and lots of joint history, there's no possibility for Carl Philip and his children to rule in Estonia (both Carl Philip's sisters have visited Estonia but don't know if he has ever even been to Estonia).
In 2018, the Republic of Estonia will celebrate its 100th anniversary, so should some Swedish royal want to visit, he or she would very much be welcome!
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  #99  
Old 12-03-2017, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Ms Lennmor talking about a folk costume yes/no and claiming that Victoria upholds "tradition". Folk costume at the one hand. A fitness trainer at the other hand. If Victoria was so keen on traditions she would have abstained from her rights in in favour of her brother (wasn't it "tradition" until today's very day that the eldest son is King?), she should have married a royal or aristocratic partner (it was never a "tradition" to see the fitness trainer as a Prince of Sweden) and if Victoria was so much more on tradition, why then "Estelle" as a name?

Conclusion: Ms Lennmor was determined to write her "article" with vinegar and used far-sought futilities as "arguments".

I think choosing ones life partner is a very different matter than wearing a national costume, don ´t you think?!
And abstaining her right in favour of her brother would have been turning against a decision the swedish parliament has made!
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  #100  
Old 12-03-2017, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
All christenings of king Carl Gustaf's grandchildren so far have been much better than this, it was clearly the worst. Too much pop music and many people were dressed really inappropriate for a church event in winter. But, Estelle was great as always and I like Archbishop Emeritus Anders Wejryd much more than Archbishop Antje Jackélen, those were the best parts of the ceremony.

Gallery
Christening of Prince Gabriel of Sweden, 01-12-2017 - Images _ Bernard Rübsamen
Sorry but I don't think its even possible to compare one christening to another....its like comparing one sibling/child to another, even twins are each of their own persons and personalities. Just as are the events. And TBH I'm getting a little tired of this constant "Estelle was great as always". I guess it may start to look like there's been too many of the christenings lately in the SRF (6 till now, 7th in spring/early summer 2018) but as the siblings have had their children so close to each other, then there's nothing to be done about it.
Perhaps some think they could have cut down on the openness of the christenings of Madeleine's and Carl Philip's children? Its their right but I am definitely very grateful that we get to be "part" of all those chistenings too thanks to the broadcast and pictures from the church. All of the christenings have been dignified, beautiful and solemn events imho and I'm sure there will be longer wait for the next christening after a couple of years.
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