Willem-Alexander, Máxima and Family, General News 4: Sep 2020- Aug 2023

[Duc_et_Pair]

I fear that I don't follow you as I am unsure what Barcelona, King Albert, Kurt Waldheim, King Juan Carlos or the Flemish nationalist/neo-fascist movements have to do with our king being in Greece.

Your point was that normal Dutch people also ignore government advice. My point - and that of many others in this thread- was that he is not a normal person but the King and more is expected from him for that reason. You have not addressed that point.

I would like to quote then member of Parliament, later Mayor of The Hague, Mr Jozias van Aartsen, during a debate about the royals: "My ladies and gentlemen: we are discussing the royal family, not the Holy Family".

It was just clumsiness, non attentive, being on automatic mode. This happens. They swiftly realized the wrong signal, immediately returned. Lesson learned. Ready.

Trump adheres injecting chloride in your veins. Bolsonaro denied the Amazon is pillaged and burned by his conmen. Putin poisons his enemies. And Willem-Alexander? Gosh... what was perfectly okay on Monday was not so okay anymore on Tuesday. Ow. The shame! Hang him high! Look at you, acting like the knitting women on the front row watching the fine fleur of France being guillotined.

That was a PR trick to downplay the letter incident. WA was never "a little bit stupid", he was and probably always will be VERY stupid.

PR trick or not. He could have been stubborn and stay in Greece. My royal derrière to you. That is what his "perfect" mom did. Let the rage just rage. "My gentlemen, the lie rules" were Beatrix' famous words (perfectioned by Trump's "there are alternative facts" and "that's fake news!".)

WA made a swift decision and with this the angle was out of the incident. In comparison this unlucky vaudeville was just a wet fart in an empty egg. Pffwwttt, next news-of-the-day. The always so perfectly mask-wearing, distancing, handwashing and oh so servitudely authority-obeying Dutch (absolutely not, the Dutch are probably the most individualist and strongwilled people) pointing to a wrong assessment by the King? Spare me the bloody irony!

PR trick or not. He could have been stubborn and stay in Greece. My royal derrière to you. That is what his "perfect" mom did. Let the rage just rage. "My gentlemen, the lie rules" were Beatrix' famous words (perfectioned by Trump's "there are alternative facts" and "that's fake news!".)

WA made a swift decision and with this the angle was out of the incident. In comparison this unlucky vaudeville was just a wet fart in an empty egg. Pffwwttt, next news-of-the-day. The always so perfectly mask-wearing, distancing, handwashing and oh so servitudely authority-obeying Dutch (absolutely not, the Dutch are probably the most individualist and strongwilled people) pointing to a wrong assessment by the King? Spare me the bloody irony!

I agree with you 100% Marengo!

In itself this is a storm in a teacup, they returned quickly and would have been safe of course in their own secluded villa. What is highlights though is any of the following (some of which is just by thoughts and ramblings):

a) their seeming willingness for the PM to have to face the music for their mistakes. Yes Rutt should have banned it but he is running a government in a pandemic, the Royal House only has to worry about the King, Queen and their family. Is this a fair working relationship to hide so openly behind the PM. The days of statements having to be made to parliament are over what with social media and the like.

b) they don't seem to feel they need to set an example to the Dutch people, yes they have access to a private plane and luxury villa so can travel safely in a way others can not but really in many people's eyes they should be setting an example for everybody no matter how rich or privileged or not.

c)they and their PR people didn't see this coming and were only reactive to a huge fuss made online and in the media i.e. they were only reactive to events. the age old adage of "The best defense is a good offense" would come to mind. The Royal House could have announced something like "following the Government's advice for people to stay at home as much as possible the King and Queen will not travel to Greece as planned" and got good PR and set an example to the Dutch people rather than now facing bad PR

d)For all the blame being thrown at the Prime Minister it calls into question the judgement of the King, Queen and their staff. Why didn't they see this coming, are they so out of touch with everyday Netherlands they thought there wouldn't be a fuss about the King & Queen swanning off thanks to the privileges provided, even indirectly, by their position and status. Or did they just not care and think they could weather it? Maybe due to seemingly being so popular normally

e)Did their staff, even the PM possibly, see this coming and question it, if so how come it still went ahead? Are the King and Queen forceful in pushing their own wants and desires they would overlook good advice for the working of the crown/monarchy if it means not doing what they want personally? If so that could be a problem ahead

The King can not go out and about, nor can the Prime Minister. The Constitution says that the King is inviolable, the ministers are responsible.

Asked to Mr Rutte if we will ever know what is discussed between King and Prime Minister, he replied: "I hope not. It is an essential cornerstone in our Constitution where the Crown speaks with one voice" . For exactly the same reason the minutes of the weekly Council of Ministers are not public: there needs to be discussion, free opinions, strong differences inside the Government but as it is a college, when they leave the stately Trêves Chamber, it is the Government speaking with one voice.

When the King would say: I went to Greece against the advice of the Prime Minister. Then there is a debate about that.

When the Prime Minister would say: I had no objection against the King to travel to Greece, then there is a debate about that.

So the mantra since 1848 is: nothing what has been discussed between the King and the ministers is public. Exactly to have the King to execute his role as head of state and member of Government, this "Secret of Noordeinde" is a dogma.

So it is not that the King likes to have Rutte to catch the criticism. I think he is the person to pick up the phone in a reflex and call into a TV show. Wisely he knows this is exactly what he can NOT do because anything the head of state says comes on the plate of the Prime Minister.

Most likely to his own frustration (and known frustration of his predecessors) but this is exactly how it works. Do Not Move While You Are Shaved.

 

[Prinsara]

Duc, while you are here, have the members of the DRF ever apologized for anything personal before? A comparison might be helpful.

 

[Somebody]

Duc, while you are here, have the members of the DRF ever apologized for anything personal before? A comparison might be helpful.

According to some, Máxima was more willing to acknowledge the wrongs of her father than Willem-Alexander. He seems slightly more stubborn than Máxima, and therefore probably less likely to apologize.

I looked back to the controversy around the villa in Mozambique. At that time they also referenced 'the publicity and debate' which went against their intentions as reason to sell their villa but no apologies were offered.

This less-than-24-hours-in-Greece-and-back vaudeville is clumsiness in optima forma. But it is what it is: clumsy, not attentive to changes, to be in automatic mode. The article in De Volkskrant made it plausible: on Monday the King and the Prime Minister met in their weekly audience. Also the coming break to Greece was discussed. On Tuesday a sharper recommedantion was given. And it simply escaped the King, the Prime Minister and the whole apparate which travels to Greece (Kabinet van de Koning, the State Information Service, courtiers) what this would mean for the planned and approved break scheduled for Friday. That is all.

The prime minister spent most of Sunday discussing the measures they were going to take/announced on Tuesday. They most likely had several options on the table and made some initial decisions (that still could change but in general they knew where they were heading: towards much stricter regulations); and the media already reported the jest of it. On Monday, they received the advice of the Outbreak Management Team - which helped solidify the exact measures that were to be announced on Tuesday. Again, the media had a rather accurate understanding of what going to be announced on Tuesday, it was only about deciding final details.

So, this story line of on Monday they talked and on Tuesday the situation was suddenly completely different doesn't make sense to me at all. I would hope the king and pm also discussed on Monday what the government intended to announce on Tuesday, so the king would know what would be asked of the Dutch population. It was the main topic the pm had been discussing and would continue to discuss with the various ministers and advisors for days...

 

[Prinsara]

According to some, Máxima was more willing to acknowledge the wrongs of her father than Willem-Alexander. He seems slightly more stubborn than Máxima, and therefore probably less likely to apologize.

I looked back to the controversy around the villa in Mozambique. At that time they also referenced 'the publicity and debate' which went against their intentions as reason to sell their villa but no apologies were offered.

And Beatrix/Juliana? Is there any historical basis for apologizing? (I won't even ask about Wilhelmina... possibly a source of the stubbornness though.)

 

[Somebody]

And Beatrix/Juliana? Is there any historical basis for apologizing? (I won't even ask about Wilhelmina... possibly a source of the stubbornness though.)

For Beatrix: unlikely. Juliana: could very well be but would depend on the topic. Juliana and Beatrix did manage to ensure that husband/father Bernhard was not formally prosecuted during one of the two most severe crises (Lockheed; the other would be Greet Hofmans) in Juliana's reign. This short biography (in Dutch but I'm sure Google Translate will help) gives a great insight in her character.

 

[Prinsara]

For Beatrix: unlikely. Juliana: could very well be but would depend on the topic. Juliana and Beatrix did manage to ensure that husband/father Bernhard was not formally prosecuted during one of the two most severe crises (Lockheed; the other would be Greet Hofmans) in Juliana's reign. This short biography (in Dutch but I'm sure Google Translate will help) gives a great insight in her character.

It does. Almost certainly Juliana would not have gone to Greece in these times. I don't gather many people have been influenced by her, neither her daughter nor her grandson, but perhaps that's some of the "powerless sense" the article referenced.

So if there is no historical precedent and no precedent by the people involved, perhaps no apology should be expected? It may be a relatively minor situation, but I'm not sure that it bodes well for the king. Someday he will likely have to apologize for something worse than this, and having no practice can't possibly help when the time comes.

 

[Marengo]

According to the RVD princess Amalia and princess Alexia were still in Greece as there were not enough tickets available for the fight(s) back. They have returned today.

https://www.rtlboulevard.nl/royalty/artikel/5191458/prinsesjes-zijn-griekenland-gebleven

 

[Prinsara]

According to the RVD princess Amalia and princess Alexia are still in Greece as there were not enough tickets available for the fight back.

Nice place to be stuck, I suppose?

It was a "fight" back, indeed...

 

[Somebody]

Nice place to be stuck, I suppose?

It was a "fight" back, indeed...

I guess the princesses (not sure why RTL used the diminuitive for 15 and 16 year oldes) didn't mind staying a few more days indeed.

 

[carlota]

strange that they didn't consider how this would be seen/interpreted.

i didn't know about maxima's 'Hij was een beetje dom' - in which context did she say it during her engagement interview? as to the courtship?

 

[Somebody]

strange that they didn't consider how this would be seen/interpreted.

i didn't know about maxima's 'Hij was een beetje dom' - in which context did she say it during her engagement interview? as to the courtship?

It's the most famous sentence in the interview. It was about Willem-Alexander's reference to a letter by Videla. We recently discussed it somewhere on TRF, so I'm sure it's easy to find by using the 'search' option.

 

[Katymcwaity]

Apparently there were 11 flights they could have tried to book on to since Saturday. Not mentioning the two girls were still out there is not the best idea in the circumstances.

 

[Somebody]

And now parliament is wondering why the prime minister did not mention in his letter that the two eldest princesses remained in Greece for three more days...

 

[Prinsara]

Apparently there were 11 flights they could have tried to book on to since Saturday. Not mentioning the two girls were still out there is not the best idea in the circumstances.

I did wonder why they weren't just put on the next flight, but are they really going to make a crisis of leaving their children there?

I suppose having their security detail out there must make it in the public interest, but still.

I wonder if it really is/was about tickets. Are there no rules or issues about the king and Amalia traveling together? Especially commercially.

 

[Somebody]

I did wonder why they weren't just put on the next flight, but are they really going to make a crisis of leaving their children there?

I suppose having their security detail out there must make it in the public interest, but still.

I wonder if it really is/was about tickets. Are there no rules or issues about the king and Amalia traveling together? Especially commercially.

Regarding your last question: no, the king and princess of Orange do travel together unlike some of their counterparts.

According to the press reports, they could secure 4 tickets for the Saturday evening flight: for the king, queen, princess Ariane and a security guard. That same day, they already decided that Amalia and Alexia would stay a few more days instead of trying to get back on the earliest flight possible.

I'm pretty convinced the princesses flew business class, so while there might have been various flights, I'm not sure that all of those flights would have at least 3 seats available in business class.

 

[camelot23ca]

And now parliament is wondering why the prime minister did not mention in his letter that the two eldest princesses remained in Greece for three more days...

Surely they have more important things to worry about than that? I know some would like to play politics with this situation for as long as possible but the public interest component ended once it was confirmed that WA and Maxima were back. To me it would have been better if the whole family had returned together but Amalia and Alexia are minors and since this was a private vacation, not an official trip, I think the exact timing of everyone's return was a family matter.

Frankly, if I'd just had to tell three teenaged girls that their vacation in Greece was over before the plane even landed I would want as few of them as possible on the flight back with me.

 

[Alisa]

This doesn't make sense the family flew TOGETHER on a government plane to Greece. If the PM felt it best for the family to return home why weren't they flown together on the same government plane?!

Also why wasn't it mentioned that two princesses stayed behind?

Sorry this all looks very fishy and contrived.

 

[Somebody]

This doesn't make sense the family flew TOGETHER on a government plane to Greece. If the PM felt it best for the family to return home why weren't they flown together on the same government plane?!

Also why wasn't it mentioned that two princesses stayed behind?

Sorry this all looks very fishy and contrived.

By the time the decision was made to return, the plane was already on it's way back to the Netherlands. That's why they (we don't know whether it were their majesties or the pm called the shot that returning would be best) decided to stay for the night and return the next day.

The PM crafted his letter in a way that he only talked about the king returning and didn't mention anything about the family (while everyone would read it as if the family returned he didn't explicitly say so). Of course it was bound to be noticed by someone either on their first flight or on the second flight that the family traveled separately, so, it's probably more of a surprise that only their arrival today was noticed and not them not being on the plane on Saturday.

Surely they have more important things to worry about than that? I know some would like to play politics with this situation for as long as possible but the public interest component ended once it was confirmed that WA and Maxima were back. To me it would have been better if the whole family had returned together but Amalia and Alexia are minors and since this was a private vacation, not an official trip, I think the exact timing of everyone's return was a family matter.

Frankly, if I'd just had to tell three teenaged girls that their vacation in Greece was over before the plane even landed I would want as few of them as possible on the flight back with me.

Given that this whole 'scandal' is about the king and his family not heeding the strong advice of the government to travel as little as possible (as part of the rather strong regulations that impact each and everyone in the Netherlands), the pm not being sufficiently aware that they didn't, and the king and queen announcing that they would break off their holidays because of the discussion about their trip, the pm announcing their return, it is not hard to imagine some of them having trouble trusting the pm in these matters. As he misled parliament by providing factually correct information implying something different than he must have known to be true. Also take into account that he was already under fire for not taking more strict measures earlier on (while others protest that the current measures are too though)... So, this is mostly about how the PM is handling this 'little crisis within a large crisis'.

 

[camelot23ca]

Given that this whole 'scandal' is about the king and his family not heeding the strong advice of the government to travel as little as possible (as part of the rather strong regulations that impact each and everyone in the Netherlands), the pm not being sufficiently aware that they didn't, and the king and queen announcing that they would break off their holidays because of the discussion about their trip, the pm announcing their return, it is not hard to imagine some of them having trouble trusting the pm in these matters. As he misled parliament by providing factually correct information implying something different than he must have known to be true. Also take into account that he was already under fire for not taking more strict measures earlier on (while others protest that the current measures are too though)... So, this is mostly about how the PM is handling this 'little crisis within a large crisis'.

It's difficult to successfully manage a crisis when you're forced to cover for another adult's poor judgement. WA and Maxima had plenty of time to hear about the new recommendations and adjust their plans accordingly. They didn't. The PM then has to wipe up their mess. He apologizes and says the king is returning. He likely did know the two older girls weren't coming back with their parents but if he puts that in his statement people will want to know why they aren't coming back and how long will they be away and is that fair and could they REALLY not find enough seats on the plane and the whole thing descends into farce. At the time the PM issued the apology it's possible no one knew exactly what the plan was for Amalia and Alexia, including their parents, so Rutte based his statement only on information he knew to be true at the time

But again, I feel that in this situation the girls were not the government's concern.

 

[PrincessofEurope]

I don't really understand in the current circumstances that every flight from Greece was full for the days following the King and Queen's return.

This incident has been damaging for the King and his family in not appreciating the situation that the Netherlands and the World is facing. Just because they are royals they are not exempt in my eyes from the rules set by Governments regarding advice. We have seen other royals from their European counterparts take "staycation" holiday - why the Dutch family think a holiday to Greece which also included their security detail was a good idea in terms of cost and public morale/solidarity

 

[lucien]

I don't really understand in the current circumstances that every flight from Greece was full for the days following the King and Queen's return.

This incident has been damaging for the King and his family in not appreciating the situation that the Netherlands and the World is facing.

Nonsens!!Like many thousands of other Dutch the family has a house abroad,and when it likes to go there they should.Especially as Greece mainland is not code orange or red!An advice is just that,nothing more!!Had the government done what it should have done a while ago already,i.e. a 4 week lockdown,everyone had known to just not move an inch.But flights to god knows what corona area fligh out every day and nobody does anything about that,But when someone moves from one bubble to another with his own family,...and some airnews something kid like Menno Swart thinks he has a scope by saying the King is fleeing the country sneaky,then that is faul,faul play to a fould!!And worse,some politicians who s party are losing seats,....thank goodness for that......Now try to profile themselves as holyer then thou on the theme of corona!!NOt with me,dont fool me,and leave them alone,.Dutch are also called Azijnzeikers...I m afraid you will have to google for that....but it fits...The Dutch RF is out and about on a daily basis to support those affected by corona,so NO ONE can say they don t take the issue serious..Bloody nonsense...and NO buts..!.Seriously!Leave them alone,,it s just a bunch of little jealous nobodies milking a non issue and they are to be ignored totally!Punt.Next!I am seriously furious.....Even at daft drooling programs like Blauw Bloed and that Vorsten rag...dump m.

 

[iceflower]

The Government Information Service has released a short video message of King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima commenting on their journey to Greece.

King Willem-Alexander said: "It hurts to have betrayed your trust in us. Even though the trip was in line with the regulations, it was very unwise not to take into account the impact of the new restrictions on our society":


** video ** rex gallery ** ppe gallery ** koninklijkhuis.nl: Copy of the King's message ** google translation **

 

[Somebody]

The final sentence is on point: we are involved but not infallible.

Let's hope they've learned from this episode and really take their position less for granted and more seriously.

 

[Jacknch]

Well, with such a communique and the video, I think Their Majesties they have gone far beyond what others in a similar position would have done in the same situation.

Throughout the last several months and indeed throughout their lives together, they have seemed close to the people of the Netherlands and beyond, been down-to-earth yet retained the dignity and regality of their position and always seemed to have acted as a good king and queen.

I think that all counts for something when weighing things up in the context of recent events.

Is all travel abroad from the Netherlands now fully restricted?

 

[lucien]

TM offered Their apologies to the people on a video released a short while ago.

Apology accepted!

The final sentence is on point: we are involved but not infallible.

Let's hope they've learned from this episode and really take their position less for granted and more seriously.

They have NEVER taken Their position for granted!!Never!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

aahh, there it is, the Gang nach Canossa, I think understandable in all languages. Maxima has the most stateswoman like facial expression
time to move on!

 

[lucien]

aahh, there it is, the Gang nach Canossa, I think understandable in all languages. Maxima has the most stateswoman like facial expression
time to move on!

Amen to that!!

 

[kathia_sophia]

The King has finally apologized! I agree with Duke, time to move on now.

 

[Skippy]

There was the royal humble pie.

 

[Marengo]

A good move to offer apologies, and that should be the end of the matter in terms of public debate. Internally I am sure there will be an evaluation to prevent an incident like this in the future, which would be mainly an issue for the prime ministers office.