Willem-Alexander, Máxima and Family, General News 4: Sep 2020- Aug 2023

[Somebody]

It certainly does right? Even the PM didn't know they were going to Greece. I thought Monarchs had to "cooperate" with PMs, not in a political sense, but in a general sense of discussing what is happening in the country. I though WA had to inform the PM of their activities, including holidays.


Maybe WA and Maxima wanted a different approach to have more freedom? I don't know what are the agreements between the two parties, but it really does seem as if WA doesn't care about what the PM says. To me, and maybe to others, it seems WA wants to live the life he wants without having anybody tell him something. This gives a bad image, as it seems he "abuses" of his power as Monarch.

It was the vice-prime minister that did the weekly press conference on Friday. He didn't know but apparently the prime minister himself did know. Based on what happened, the press concludes that the pm must have underestimated the situation as well because otherwise he should at least have informed his vice-pm who is his main partner (as minister of Public Health) in the Covid-19 approach.

Representatives of various parties are asking why the pm did not prevent this from happening. And the press is currently speculating how the decision to return was made: was it kind of forced upon the king and queen or did they themselves somewhat see the light. Their press release doesn't show much self-reflection, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the pm who strongly advised them to return asap to reduce the damage. So far, he hasn't said anything.

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

May I be honest? I don't see anything bad in the trip itself. As long as they'd kept it safe down in Greece, and they have the ressources to do so, I'd say "go ahead". The thing is - due to the lack of spending opportunities the rich and wealthy have seen an increase of their wealth. At the same time tourist spots, like Greece, have taken a huge economic beating. So, while I do agree, that basically sitting on each other's laps in a huge hotel is definitely not a good idea, I do think that those, who have the means to at least support the tourism a little bit (or even more in their case) should continue to do so as long as the neccessary precautions can be made and noone is endangered. It may only be a droplet in the Ocean, but at least it would be that. Noone is helped with the rich and wealthy sitting on their money and showing this strange "solidarity", while spending the money might be much more helpful.

Then again, I've never given much for "symbolism"...

best wishes Michiru

 

[Prinsara]

Will they now be in quarantine for ten days?

If so they will have enough time to think about this...

 

[tommy100]

I don't understand why the PM is getting criticised for this? I understand he could have advised them not to go but can he actually stop them? It feels a bit like passing the buck to me.

Michiru I can see your point to a degree, but then this is a King & Queen who's people have been told to try not to travel out the country for their holidays. So of course WA&Max can do as they please and have the resources to do more than their mere subjects....its how that looks to the ordinary people who don't have a million euro holiday home, government jet on standby and status to be able to help them get out of the restrictions that is the issue here. Can WA & Max get around the rules safely - yes. Should they - IMO no, not if they want people to feel they truly represent them and stand with them. The real issue is less that the King & Queen have a lifestyle that allows them to circumvent the rules but that doing so makes them look out of touch.

Nos reported:

Last night, after the king had made it clear that he would abort his holiday due to all the angry reactions, the Government Information Service (RVD) announced that the prime minister was aware of the royal holiday. The statement also stated that the prime minister always has ministerial responsibility. That is to say: even if it concerns a private trip of the head of state.

The RVD does not want to say anything about how the decision to return came about and who was involved in it. It is only said that the royal couple is shocked by all the violent reactions.

Well the RVD is making it worse IMO, making it clear the King & Queen see no reason they should have to do what their own subjects have been told to do.


https://nos.nl/artikel/2352692-kame...-vakantie-koning-rutte-zwijgt-vooralsnog.html

 

[Denville]

most ordinary people already realized that holidays away from home would be in jeopardy and haven't booked like they would normally do

that said, i hardly think that applies to king and queen, their holiday to greece is hardly a package holiday deal that they can't get out of

Obviously not but Im sure they didn't want to cancel their holiday and felt it was Ok and they could fall back on the idea that other people were going on holidays.... I doubt if they're very worried what the people think, unless it becomes very negative.

Travel agencies reported cancellations... or decided to cancel all reservations themselves! So people do change their plans because of the much stricter regulations that came into place on Wednesday. Other hotels / holiday homes (especially those in the coastal zone) report more bookings as people heeded the government's strong advise not to go abroad but remain in the Netherlands (and limit outings).

Obviously some people would cancel.. others, if it was permitted still, would go ahead, if it was legal to do so. Depends on whether they'd get refunds, or whether they heard in time. in the UK, when travel was permitted, some people went away and then were told that Spain or somewhere was a country they had to quarantine when they came home.. and were caught out. Rules change fast adn it isn't always possible or easy to cancel or change arrangments.. If it is just "strong advice" rather than a legal requirement, Im sure a lot of people went ahead with thier holdiays...

 

[Skippy]

I don't understand why the PM is getting criticised for this? I understand he could have advised them not to go but can he actually stop them? It feels a bit like passing the buck to me.

Michiru I can see your point to a degree, but then this is a King & Queen who's people have been told to try not to travel out the country for their holidays. So of course WA&Max can do as they please and have the resources to do more than their mere subjects....its how that looks to the ordinary people who don't have a million euro holiday home, government jet on standby and status to be able to help them get out of the restrictions that is the issue here. Can WA & Max get around the rules safely - yes. Should they - IMO no, not if they want people to feel they truly represent them and stand with them. The real issue is less that the King & Queen have a lifestyle that allows them to circumvent the rules but that doing so makes them look out of touch.

Nos reported:

Last night, after the king had made it clear that he would abort his holiday due to all the angry reactions, the Government Information Service (RVD) announced that the prime minister was aware of the royal holiday. The statement also stated that the prime minister always has ministerial responsibility. That is to say: even if it concerns a private trip of the head of state.

The RVD does not want to say anything about how the decision to return came about and who was involved in it. It is only said that the royal couple is shocked by all the violent reactions.

Well the RVD is making it worse IMO, making it clear the King & Queen see no reason they should have to do what their own subjects have been told to do.


https://nos.nl/artikel/2352692-kame...-vakantie-koning-rutte-zwijgt-vooralsnog.html

"Shocked" implies that they had no idea that this could happen... And this is not the first time he/they have done something dumb.

And it's true - the PM has ministerial responsibility. That's why he gets the flak for the King (and Queen).

 

[kathia_sophia]

"Shocked" implies that they had no idea that this could happen... And this is not the first time he/they have done something dumb.

And it's true - the PM has ministerial responsibility. That's why he gets the flak for the King (and Queen).

And that explains why they didn't apologize, because they think they didn't do anything wrong...at least, in their eyes.


It makes me think if they are really "living" in the current times. Don't they see the news? Perhaps they never got "close" enough to the virus to feel scared or threatened (having someone they know die because of the virus, or having a family member infected with the virus).


They are probably one of those people that don't take this virus seriously since they live in their own bubble. I do like them a lot, but sometimes, these attitudes give me the wrong vibes (including the masks time, and also that time in Seville where WA pushed an elderly man away from his path).

 

[Lee-Z]

Obviously not but Im sure they didn't want to cancel their holiday and felt it was Ok and they could fall back on the idea that other people were going on holidays.... I doubt if they're very worried what the people think, unless it becomes very negative.

I just think it would look pretty bad if the WA&M defended their vacation with a pouting "...but other people were going too..." (imagine a quivering lip with this)

in another thead the phrase "tonedeaf" pops up frequently lately, this qualifies for this phrase too ?

no biggie, no thread to the monarchy, business will go on as usual after the autumn holiday, but like others said, this is not the first time they make choices in their private life that are later consider "unfortunate" and if another one happens, old situations are hashed up again (as you can find not that far back in this thread)

As Maxima said in their engagement interview "a little bit dumb.." well, this one is a lityle bit dumb as well

 

[Denville]

I just think it would look pretty bad if the WA&M defended their vacation with a pouting "...but other people were going too..." (imagine a quivering lip with this)

in another thead the phrase "tonedeaf" pops up frequently lately, this qualifies for this phrase too ?

no biggie, no thread to the monarchy, business will go on as usual after the autumn holiday, but like others said, this is not the first time they make choices in their private life that are later consider "unfortunate" and if another one happens, old situations are hashed up again (as you can find not that far back in this thread)

As Maxima said in their engagement interview "a little bit dumb.." well, this one is a lityle bit dumb as well

but that's pretty much what they have done.. gone on their holiday, and then come back early, with no real apology or sign that they cared,.... except that they were u neasy when they started to get a bit of flak from the public...

 

[Prinsara]

Being upset that other people are upset is not the same thing as a genuine apology, or even being sorry.

Perhaps they really did feel entitled to go to back to Greece after having just been in August; perhaps none of the other royal properties in the Netherlands would have done (I know it's traditional there to holiday abroad, normally). Perhaps the girls were the ones who insisted. We don't know.

The fact that they either didn't have an advisor telling them that this was not a good idea (and that's what their "shock" suggests) or that they did not listen to this person, is... not good, that's all I can say. "Fortunately" there are so many other things to worry about right now that it likely won't be that much of a scandal.

 

[Somebody]

May I be honest? I don't see anything bad in the trip itself. As long as they'd kept it safe down in Greece, and they have the ressources to do so, I'd say "go ahead". The thing is - due to the lack of spending opportunities the rich and wealthy have seen an increase of their wealth. At the same time tourist spots, like Greece, have taken a huge economic beating. So, while I do agree, that basically sitting on each other's laps in a huge hotel is definitely not a good idea, I do think that those, who have the means to at least support the tourism a little bit (or even more in their case) should continue to do so as long as the neccessary precautions can be made and noone is endangered. It may only be a droplet in the Ocean, but at least it would be that. Noone is helped with the rich and wealthy sitting on their money and showing this strange "solidarity", while spending the money might be much more helpful.

Then again, I've never given much for "symbolism"...

best wishes Michiru

If the government's advise is literally: "Ga zo min mogelijk op reis." i.e., "Travel as little as possible" it would be much better if the king followed the advice of his prime minister.

And I'm not sure how staying in their holiday home in Greece would truly help the Greek tourist industry as the other advise is (for those who decide to ignore the first advise) if you do decide to travel "stay as much as possible at your holiday destination/holiday home" - but maybe they didn't feel like following that rule either?!

While I agree that the risk in Greece isn't that high, they might spread it in Greece if one of them ends up being infected. The crew flying the government plane also had to work because of them and therefore was at risk - which goes against another regulation: "Work from home as much as possible. Only go to your work if there is truly no other option" - by deciding to go on holiday the king forced others to work outside of their home.

I don't understand why the PM is getting criticised for this? I understand he could have advised them not to go but can he actually stop them? It feels a bit like passing the buck to me.

Not informing the vice prime minister who did your weekly press conference shows that he didn't think it was a big deal. So yes, I understand the criticism while of course, the first and foremost responsibility lies with the king and queen.

Nos reported:

Last night, after the king had made it clear that he would abort his holiday due to all the angry reactions, the Government Information Service (RVD) announced that the prime minister was aware of the royal holiday. The statement also stated that the prime minister always has ministerial responsibility. That is to say: even if it concerns a private trip of the head of state.

The RVD does not want to say anything about how the decision to return came about and who was involved in it. It is only said that the royal couple is shocked by all the violent reactions.

Well the RVD is making it worse IMO, making it clear the King & Queen see no reason they should have to do what their own subjects have been told to do.


https://nos.nl/artikel/2352692-kame...-vakantie-koning-rutte-zwijgt-vooralsnog.html

My interpretation was that the final sentence was just a reference to the earlier statement. Not that the RVD talked to the journalist reiterating that they were shocked.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.

 

[Skippy]

Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.

The Prime Minister (Mark Rutte) did know about it, but has remained silent about it up to now.
The Vice Prime Minister (Hugo de Jonge), who did the weekly televised Conversation with the Prime Minister last Friday, did not know about it.
Neither is known whether Rutte advised W-A and Máxima against it, but then I would say that the advice should not be necessary in the first place. Common sense should prevail here, but that has been lacking.


For the rest I agree with what you wrote.

 

[Somebody]

The king and his family returned today by KLM-flight. They were back home in The Hague around 9 pm. The government plane was already on it's way back when they decided to return to the Netherlands, so they ended up taking a regular KLM-flight home.

Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.

As Skippy already explained: the pm knew (but I understand it is confusing with the vice prime minister not knowing).

Which part of their original message did you construe as an apology? From my perspective, it didn't contain an apology at all. Just a note that they were surprised by the backlash and therefore decided to return to avoid further discussion.

 

[tommy100]

The king and his family returned today by KLM-flight. They were back home in The Hague around 9 pm. The government plane was already on it's way back when they decided to return to the Netherlands, so they ended up taking a regular KLM-flight home.

Interesting arrangements, I would have thought the government plane may have stayed on in case there was some disaster and the King was needed back home in Netherlands asap.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

The Prime Minister (Mark Rutte) did know about it, but has remained silent about it up to now.
The Vice Prime Minister (Hugo de Jonge), who did the weekly televised Conversation with the Prime Minister last Friday, did not know about it.
Neither is known whether Rutte advised W-A and Máxima against it, but then I would say that the advice should not be necessary in the first place. Common sense should prevail here, but that has been lacking.


For the rest I agree with what you wrote.

Ah okay thank you for correcting me, I was a little confused by the situation!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Either Rutte wasn't bothered by the trip or he advised the King not to go and he ignored the advice anyway.
WA has been acting borderline brazen and autocratic, should be careful not to overdo it, it's not the only unfortunate decision, and if things add up the public opinion could sway the other way. Yes they do a good job but they get their share of the money even though the family is super rich they get paid a lot from the State, private jets, controversies about vacation homes party paid for by the State, CP Amalia and her apanage despite not working for many years, auctioning of art works that were once bought by the state, the over control of the press with WA's definition of 'private' ... people might not keep overlooking everything only because they do a good job.

 

[Marengo]

Considering the prime ministers 'laissez-faire' attitude concerning COVID ánd the RF I would not find it surprising if he had not said a word about it. Perhaps in some decades we will know what actually happened but for now it does not matter. If he didn't advise against it he should have. If he did advice against it he should have been more forceful.

The RF did not sell artworks that were property of the state. The pieces that were auctioned of were not even part of the association 'Koninklijke verzamelingen' despite them having an inventory number. It was btw not the king who auctioned these items but the late Pss Christina, who is not a member of the royal house.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2272161-de-kunst-van-de-koning-is-ondoorzichtig.html

The princess of Orange was never expected to work at the age of 18. The constitution says that she receives an income at the age of 18, as did her father, her great-mother and her great-grandmother. If parliament want to change the matter, they are free to do so. Instead they reaffirmed her income in the Wet financieel statuut van het Koninklijk Huis, only a few years ago.

As the Pss of Orange will not be receiving free housing from the state - unlike the Dss of Brabant- one could considering a good opportunity for her to save up some money so later on she can find a place that is appropriate for her position. Legally speaking I am not sure if the King can refuse the future income for his daughter, who will be an adult when the law comes into effect.

 

[camelot23ca]

I generally think WA and Máxima are a good team but this was a major error in judgement. The government had advised people to stay close to home and that alone should have taken a trip to Greece off the table.
The fact that the PM knew about the trip and it still happened is also problematic. It means the PM was either fine with them going, against the public advice of his own government, or he advised them not to go and they went anyway.
I assume with all the royal families there’s usually an element of solidarity with their fellow citizens in public while feeling, (unfortunately often correctly), that the rules don’t really apply to them in private. But Covid and the societal turmoil that’s come with it are unprecedented and people aren’t in the mood to be forgiving.

 

[Skippy]

PM Rutte has apologized:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2352797-rutte-verkeerde-inschatting-gemaakt-bij-vakantie-koning.html

 

[An Ard Ri]

How long were the Dutch RF in Greece ,I just saw it on the BBC news.

 

[HotSoup]

That's hardly a apology, or a statement to admitting a mistake to me tbh.

I could be, and I hope I am wrong, I feel a sense of arrogance and senselessness from DRF recently.

I think they have always been this way - you get these princes who have been handed everything from birth; nobody telling them "no", and then they push these maybe well-meaning, but out of touch and pushy partners on the world, and little wonder that the world is having none of it.

Yes, a real sense of arrogance, unfortunately.

 

[sjetajiem]

PM Rutte has apologized:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2352797-rutte-verkeerde-inschatting-gemaakt-bij-vakantie-koning.html

And now the King and Queen!!!

 

[Marengo]

Although the PM is responsible for the king and should have forbidden the trip, the King himself could have taken his own responsibility as most of his country is doing. Instead he needed to be nannied.

The lack of antenna is perplexing after so many years and after the work of both him and his wife has been about nothing but Corona for 7 months now. They must have seen various celebrities being crusified for either complaining or for not sticking to the spirit of the guidelines. And yet, the couple just ploughs ahead, while they have been away on vacation for 2 months this year already.

For seven months the king talked about solidarity and alertness. He even warned that we all should listen to the advice of the authorities. Fortunately for them the king and queen have built of enough credit to weather this storm but for now they have little credibility to talk about the issue and it brings back all the image-problems as jetsetters that they had successfully gotten rid of. It will be interesting to see what PR-initiatives their advisors will come up with to mend the pieces back together.

 

[tommy100]

I find it interesting that the PM has apologised but not the King and Queen. I can understand why the PM may apologise but in doing show it surely just makes it even more clear the King & Queen should also apologise. Or are they naive enough to believe they can truly get away with saying they were so poorly advised by the PM and their staff that it is not their fault.

 

[Denville]

I find it interesting that the PM has apologised but not the King and Queen. I can understand why the PM may apologise but in doing show it surely just makes it even more clear the King & Queen should also apologise. Or are they naive enough to believe they can truly get away with saying they were so poorly advised by the PM and their staff that it is not their fault.

They dont care.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

This gets more funny every day. OK, Rutte is WA's boss, and I guess he's now taking the heat for this unfortunate event, because he did not say NO to the King (of course he can't admit in case the King told him to get lost), but the fact remains that WA should apologize as well, because it was him who made the error of judgement in the first place.

 

[An Ard Ri]

There's a serious lack of common sense and very poor judgement by the king and queen and the Dutch royals are making headlines all over the world for the wrong reasons.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/18/europe/dutch-king-coronavirus-vacation-intl/index.html

https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...ander-greece-7f4db4afa51687f8d55d493df9890a90

 

[kathia_sophia]

They dont care.

Unfortunately, I also feel that they don't care.


The PM is the one taking the blame now. They should at least apologize. Don't they feel sorry at all? Even for their PM? I never thought that BBC would report this incident. This getting too big to be honest. If they apologized, this wouldn't become too big. People are feeling that WA and his family are arrogant and out of touch.


WA have to be careful now when speaking in public. If he speaks about the pandemic, and how one should behave, he will be crucified by the public.

 

[Skippy]

I would almost get the feeling that they feel insulted by the outcry over their holiday...

And it's the PM's job to cover the King (and the Queens we had before). Mark Rutte does it, Jan Peter Balkenende did it, Wim Kok, Ruud Lubbers, Dries van Agt, Joop den Uyl etcetera. It's constitutionally arranged. As "cowardly" as it sounds.

I was not too fond of then-Queen Beatrix, but I seriously doubt that she would have done this.

There's a serious lack of common sense and very poor judgement by the king and queen and the Dutch royals are making headlines all over the world for the wrong reasons.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/18/europe/dutch-king-coronavirus-vacation-intl/index.html

https://apnews.com/article/virus-ou...ander-greece-7f4db4afa51687f8d55d493df9890a90

And this, exactly.