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  #61  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
Unfortunately, I also feel that they don't care.


The PM is the one taking the blame now. They should at least apologize. Don't they feel sorry at all? Even for their PM? I never thought that BBC would report this incident. This getting too big to be honest. If they apologized, this wouldn't become too big. People are feeling that WA and his family are arrogant and out of touch.


WA have to be careful now when speaking in public. If he speaks about the pandemic, and how one should behave, he will be crucified by the public.
WA and Máxima should apologize quickly and sincerely. They’re sorry, they understand why people are upset, THEY take responsibility for their actions, it won’t happen again.
I understand why the PM apologized but WA and Máxima are adults. They’re also leaders, of a sort, in Dutch society, and good leaders acknowledge their mistakes.
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  #62  
Old 10-18-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
WA and Máxima should apologize quickly and sincerely. They’re sorry, they understand why people are upset, THEY take responsibility for their actions, it won’t happen again.
I understand why the PM apologized but WA and Máxima are adults. They’re also leaders, of a sort, in Dutch society, and good leaders acknowledge their mistakes.
how will they apologise sincerely when its pretty clear that they just came home because there was a bit of an outcry.
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  #63  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:20 PM
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I didn't realise they were there in Greece only for one day and had to return due to the backlash at home ,oh God this is highly embarrassing .

I had thought they left before the lockdown was announced but the fact they left on Friday is even worse as they had full knowledge.
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  #64  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:21 PM
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And that is the crux of the matter IMO, if they apologise now it will look like too little too late and certainly looked like they were forced into it out of necessity rather than any genuine feelings or remorse.
I have always understood the fact the Dutch PM "is responsible" for the monarch but I have never thought that extended as far as apologising for the monarchs actions while the King goes about not having a care in the world.

If they don't think they have to apologise then of course that is their choice but it does make me think much less of them. I fully understand that they may not think they have done wrong but they have acknowledged the strong feelings of the public and still don't feel it necessary to apologise even just to be seen to do the right thing....that is telling IMO.
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  #65  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:33 PM
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The newspaper De Volkskrant has made an analysis. On Monday was the usual weekly audience between the King and the Prime Minister. His coming autumn break in Greece will have passed. After all a whole organization travels with the King and the Kabinet van de Koning will send all bills, decrees, letters to their staff in Greece. The Prime Minister will have said: "No audience coming week, have a nice stay, Sir".

On Tuesday was a new meeting of the Covid-19 Task Force. The Government now has a new advice: it urges the Dutch to restrain themselves in movements.

The King's scheduled break was not in focus because the King would travel to a more safe (yellow) area than where he is now (red). No quarantaine needed.

Then there was the EU Summit in Brussels. The Prime Minister had no contacts anymore with the King. Somehow it escaped in the whole organization that the holiday, discussed on Monday, came into another position after the Covid-19 task force meeting on Tuesday.

The Prime Minister "had it not sharp in his focus" and took all responsibility (as indeed is his role). All parties acknowledged that the King at least has reacted the right way: to return immediately. Damage control.

For the rest it is a storm in a tea cup. It is not that the King did attend a rally without a mask or brought anyone in danger. And it is not new either. Earlier Queen Beatrix went on holiday to Austria despite angry reactions because the extreme right politician Jörg Haider was successful in Karinthia.

And earlier Queen Beatrix felt ill at the yacht Something Cool from Freddy Heineken. The Government only found out that the Queen was in the South of France when she was admitted in the hospital in Antibes.

A most unlucky and unnecessary incident for the King, who enjoys great approval this year, but returning immediately has prevented more. If the King has been stubborn and remained in Greece, it would have gone out of hand completely.

In the weekly program Blauw Bloed there was a live online poll. By his holiday, the King has lost his credibility on Covid-19. Yes or no? Almost 60.000 voted in that program time span.

51% said no
48% said yes
1 % does not know

I had expected a massive 90% desavouing the King but all by all it looks like a stir. It is no extramarital affair, it is no corruption or nepotism, it is no unlawful act, it is no fraud or embezzlement, it was just an unlucky and unnecessary continuation of a planned break and a big majority seems to realize that, bar the open sewers on Twitter or social media.
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  #66  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:34 PM
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Well yes PM Rutte was quick in saying sorry, he is voted in by the people, for the King and family it is Family business. I am sure Grease is under the same restrictions as the rest of Europe. Sad that the RF felt the rules don't apply to them, because who they are. I don't think Pss Beatrix would have done this while she was Queen.
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  #67  
Old 10-18-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I didn't realise they were there in Greece only for one day and had to return due to the backlash at home ,oh God this is highly embarrassing .

I had thought they left before the lockdown was announced but the fact they left on Friday is even worse as they had full knowledge.
There was (and is) no lock down. The King did nothing wrong. He even went to a more safe area (yellow) than where he is now (red). But it was unlucky because on Tuesday the Government urged the Dutch to restrain in movements, if possible. No law, just an urged request. But that then the head of state, who is a member of Government, continued his planned break was a most unlucky incident.

It was not sharp in focus, neither with the Office of the Prime Minister nor with the Royal Household Service that the break, no problem on Monday, was suddenly a possible problem on Tuesday (when the advice came to restrain in movement). Essentially that is all. And when the King and Prime Minister realized the incident, they immediately ended the break and returned to The Hague. That is it, in a nutshell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS View Post
Well yes PM Rutte was quick in saying sorry, he is voted in by the people, for the King and family it is Family business. I am sure Grease is under the same restrictions as the rest of Europe. Sad that the RF felt the rules don't apply to them, because who they are. I don't think Pss Beatrix would have done this while she was Queen.
Oh yes. She did. She went holidaying in Austria when Jörg Haider was elected in Kärnten (Karinthia) and parties thought the Dutch should boycott Austria for this. The Queen just went to holiday, leaving the quite left oriented media fuming. Auf Wiederseh'n.

And she went to make an official visit to Oman in a similar outcry. You seem to have pink tinted glasses on Princess Beatrix.

And Greece was not under the same restriction as the Netherlands. It is more safe there (yellow area) than in the Netherlands (red area). There is NO lockdown at all. Just an urged advice to restrain in movement. It was unlucky that the new policy was crossing the already planned break and no one had it sharp in focus.

That the royal family returned immediately was the best damage control.
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  #68  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:08 PM
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So should all of the Netherlands have gone to Greece, because the situation in Greece is (currently) better? How does that make what the king and queen did any more acceptable?

If they realized that there was enough of a "mistake" and public outcry to hurry home on commercial, they should realize that's enough to issue a genuine, humble apology.

I feel sorry for the PM because someone other than him should have been informing and advising the king between Tuesday and Friday.
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  #69  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
So should all of the Netherlands have gone to Greece, because the situation in Greece is (currently) better? How does that make what the king and queen did any more acceptable?

If they realized that there was enough of a "mistake" and public outcry to hurry home on commercial, they should realize that's enough to issue a genuine, humble apology.

I feel sorry for the PM because someone other than him should have been informing and advising the king between Tuesday and Friday.
Just on the news: despite the urged advice by the Government to restrain in movement, millions of Dutch went out to cities, to nature parks, to beaches, to enjoy the weather. It was so crowded that there were congestions on some roads. And that on a Sunday.

So this urged advice to restrain on movement is not clear on anyone's focus. What was perfectly okay on Monday, was less okay on Tuesday. That this had a possible consequence for the plane leaving on Friday was not on anyone's mind. That is all.

No any rule was broken. No any lockdown (there is none) was ignored. Just the head of state whom did not restrict himself in movement while the Government advised this "if possible" to all Dutch. Luckily the King realized the impact and immediately took a plane back. Less than 24 hours in Greece. Operation damage control.

An unlucky scratch on the King's imago. But **** happens. Also in the seventh year of his - so far- quite successful Kingship. Like everything, Mabel's friendship with a murdered criminal, Willem-Alexander's beer with Putin, it will fade out. Today's news is tomorrow's filling for the cat's litter box.
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  #70  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Oh yes. She did. She went holidaying in Austria when Jörg Haider was elected in Kärnten (Karinthia) and parties thought the Dutch should boycott Austria for this. The Queen just went to holiday, leaving the quite left oriented media fuming. Auf Wiederseh'n.

And she went to make an official visit to Oman in a similar outcry. You seem to have pink tinted glasses on Princess Beatrix.

And Greece was not under the same restriction as the Netherlands. It is more safe there (yellow area) than in the Netherlands (red area). There is NO lockdown at all. Just an urged advice to restrain in movement. It was unlucky that the new policy was crossing the already planned break and no one had it sharp in focus.

That the royal family returned immediately was the best damage control.

Well, that's an interesting tidbit for me as an Austrian, though I don't think it's quite the same as long as the Queen was not meeting up with Haider for apres-ski drinks Or went to the region of Kärnten... As far as I know, she usually goes to Vorarlberg and Tirol, which have always had very different politics than Kärnten.

Though the Netherlands allow their citizens to travel to Greece and Greece allows them to enter, have they considered the scandal it would have caused, if they, coming from a country much more badly affected by the virus, had turned out being the ones bringing covid with them to Greece?

In my personal opinion, any head of state or government should not merely act within legal frames, as they obviously did, but also set an example. An ordinary Dutch citizen may get away with going on holiday somewhere that is not a red area, despite unnecessary travel being discouraged, but a King rightfully does not.

And the optics of using a government plane to do so... Yes, their risk of infection is much lower taking the government plane and then staying at their private villa but the optics of that while people at home make concessions and suffer the effects of the virus... But if you as a Dutch citizen don't mind, that's good.
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  #71  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:53 PM
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About the Dutch King and his family going to Greece during the Covid shut-down, I can't stop laughing. The Dutch royals remind me of the tycoon who boasted about being on his yacht early in the pandemic shut-in.
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  #72  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The King did nothing wrong.
If he did nothing wrong then why was there an outcry at home and he and his family were forced to come home after a day?
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  #73  
Old 10-18-2020, 03:17 PM
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I don’t think princess Beatrix would have made these tragic mistakes. Beatrix would have put the monarchy above her family’s fun anytime. The villa, the yacht, the arrogance.
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  #74  
Old 10-18-2020, 04:32 PM
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Doing wrong by the law and doing wrong morally are two different things, especially when you are the King and thus people expect you to set an example. The ironic thing in this seems, from what I can understand, that if the RF had left a few days earlier they would have been out the country already when people were told not to travel thus some of the criticism wouldn't have been there. All in all its a very unfortunate but not in itself awful incident but what the reaction of the RF shows and implies worries me a little.
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  #75  
Old 10-18-2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The newspaper De Volkskrant has made an analysis. On Monday was the usual weekly audience between the King and the Prime Minister. His coming autumn break in Greece will have passed. After all a whole organization travels with the King and the Kabinet van de Koning will send all bills, decrees, letters to their staff in Greece. The Prime Minister will have said: "No audience coming week, have a nice stay, Sir".

On Tuesday was a new meeting of the Covid-19 Task Force. The Government now has a new advice: it urges the Dutch to restrain themselves in movements.

The King's scheduled break was not in focus because the King would travel to a more safe (yellow) area than where he is now (red). No quarantaine needed.

Then there was the EU Summit in Brussels. The Prime Minister had no contacts anymore with the King. Somehow it escaped in the whole organization that the holiday, discussed on Monday, came into another position after the Covid-19 task force meeting on Tuesday.

The Prime Minister "had it not sharp in his focus" and took all responsibility (as indeed is his role). All parties acknowledged that the King at least has reacted the right way: to return immediately. Damage control.

For the rest it is a storm in a tea cup. It is not that the King did attend a rally without a mask or brought anyone in danger. And it is not new either. Earlier Queen Beatrix went on holiday to Austria despite angry reactions because the extreme right politician Jörg Haider was successful in Karinthia.

And earlier Queen Beatrix felt ill at the yacht Something Cool from Freddy Heineken. The Government only found out that the Queen was in the South of France when she was admitted in the hospital in Antibes.

A most unlucky and unnecessary incident for the King, who enjoys great approval this year, but returning immediately has prevented more. If the King has been stubborn and remained in Greece, it would have gone out of hand completely.

In the weekly program Blauw Bloed there was a live online poll. By his holiday, the King has lost his credibility on Covid-19. Yes or no? Almost 60.000 voted in that program time span.

51% said no
48% said yes
1 % does not know

I had expected a massive 90% desavouing the King but all by all it looks like a stir. It is no extramarital affair, it is no corruption or nepotism, it is no unlawful act, it is no fraud or embezzlement, it was just an unlucky and unnecessary continuation of a planned break and a big majority seems to realize that, bar the open sewers on Twitter or social media.

People who watch Blauw Bloed are mostly royalists. If nearly half of those think the King lost his credibility on Covid-19, then I would say the King is in trouble.
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  #76  
Old 10-18-2020, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
how will they apologise sincerely when its pretty clear that they just came home because there was a bit of an outcry.
The outcry may have been the reason they came home but it also could have prompted some reflection on their part and made them realize their judgment had been poor.

Even if that’s true, though, it’s too late for an apology to have much of an impact now - it should have come at the time of their first statement.
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  #77  
Old 10-18-2020, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalriada View Post
I don’t think princess Beatrix would have made these tragic mistakes. Beatrix would have put the monarchy above her family’s fun anytime. The villa, the yacht, the arrogance.
Hahaha. I can not stop laughing.

The one with a yacht for which the maintenance and the operation is paid for, is exactly Princess Beatrix. For more than 60 years now.

King Willem-Alexander has no yacht. He has a speedboat im Greece which is not on the State Budget.

Then the arrogance. If there is anyone arrogant on the royal family... While the folksy and approachable Willem-Alexander is ridiculed as a beer-loving dude with a nose for gaffes, in all these years, in every satiristic program, in cabaret sketches, in cartoons, there always was one constante: an haughty, aloof, arrogant and distant portrayal of Queen Beatrix. Always. Her many parodies are a genre on itself.

Then putting the monarchy above the family. While King Willem-Alexander so far has always avoided politics as the plague, walking a strictly constitutional path, it was exactly his mother whom more and more received criticism on her (left leaning) activism.

Even so that it was exactly under her Reign that for the first time the Queen was bypassed by the formation of a new Government. This did not happen under the a-political Willem-Alexander but under Beatrix Regina Perfectissimae....

Then the less-than-24-hours-break to Greece. A category of unintentionally clumsiness resulting in a scratch on the King's imago. But your heroine, The Perfect Queen, went to Austria against the outspoken wish of the Cabinet. The party of Jörg Haider became part of the Austrian Government and there was an uproar that this was no any hindrance for Queen Beatrix at all, two days after the installation, to set foot in Austria with the government airplane for her annual holiday. A grumbling Prime Minister Kok (Labour) had to take this for his responsibility.

The same happened when former UN General Secretary Kurt Waldheim became President of Austria. A popular outcry went through the Netherlands: "No Longer My Queen" because Beatrix saw no any reason at all to boycott Austria for President Waldheim (a man with an alleged Nazi and SS past).

The same happened when the Government refused the Queen's wish to have a State Visit to Oman. Because of politic and social unrest against the Sultan, the Cabinet wanted no State Visit. The Queen pressed and finally an Official Visit with the Prince of Orange and Princess Máxima was arranged to Sultan Qaboos. Evil tongues rumoured: "Just for the Orange-Nassau millions in Royal Dutch Shell they ignore human righs in Oman". Queen Beatrix just shrugged her shoulders.

In this retrospect, this 24 hours farce, was just a wet fart. It is clear that you are watching Princess Beatrix with pink (or orange) tinted glasses.
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  #78  
Old 10-18-2020, 06:08 PM
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WA and Maxima really aren't doing any favours with this situation and it's making me rethink my judgement on their characters. I thought they were fairly down to earth and approachable but this whole debacle is making them look the opposite.

What is the verdict of regular Dutch people on this subject? It would be interesting to know their opinions.
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  #79  
Old 10-19-2020, 12:12 AM
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One of Maxima’s first public Dutch sentences is applicable to this situation: Hij was een beetje dom.
In this case ‘zij’ also.
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  #80  
Old 10-19-2020, 12:40 AM
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It's legal but doesn't mean it's sensible. They are not the same thing. And supposedly a figurehead is more capable of making a wise decision, rather than just not doing something illegal.
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