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  #41  
Old 10-17-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Obviously not but Im sure they didn't want to cancel their holiday and felt it was Ok and they could fall back on the idea that other people were going on holidays.... I doubt if they're very worried what the people think, unless it becomes very negative.
I just think it would look pretty bad if the WA&M defended their vacation with a pouting "...but other people were going too..." (imagine a quivering lip with this)

in another thead the phrase "tonedeaf" pops up frequently lately, this qualifies for this phrase too

no biggie, no thread to the monarchy, business will go on as usual after the autumn holiday, but like others said, this is not the first time they make choices in their private life that are later consider "unfortunate" and if another one happens, old situations are hashed up again (as you can find not that far back in this thread)

As Maxima said in their engagement interview "a little bit dumb.." well, this one is a lityle bit dumb as well
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  #42  
Old 10-17-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
I just think it would look pretty bad if the WA&M defended their vacation with a pouting "...but other people were going too..." (imagine a quivering lip with this)

in another thead the phrase "tonedeaf" pops up frequently lately, this qualifies for this phrase too

no biggie, no thread to the monarchy, business will go on as usual after the autumn holiday, but like others said, this is not the first time they make choices in their private life that are later consider "unfortunate" and if another one happens, old situations are hashed up again (as you can find not that far back in this thread)

As Maxima said in their engagement interview "a little bit dumb.." well, this one is a lityle bit dumb as well
but that's pretty much what they have done.. gone on their holiday, and then come back early, with no real apology or sign that they cared,.... except that they were u neasy when they started to get a bit of flak from the public...
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  #43  
Old 10-17-2020, 12:07 PM
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Being upset that other people are upset is not the same thing as a genuine apology, or even being sorry.

Perhaps they really did feel entitled to go to back to Greece after having just been in August; perhaps none of the other royal properties in the Netherlands would have done (I know it's traditional there to holiday abroad, normally). Perhaps the girls were the ones who insisted. We don't know.

The fact that they either didn't have an advisor telling them that this was not a good idea (and that's what their "shock" suggests) or that they did not listen to this person, is... not good, that's all I can say. "Fortunately" there are so many other things to worry about right now that it likely won't be that much of a scandal.
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  #44  
Old 10-17-2020, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
May I be honest? I don't see anything bad in the trip itself. As long as they'd kept it safe down in Greece, and they have the ressources to do so, I'd say "go ahead". The thing is - due to the lack of spending opportunities the rich and wealthy have seen an increase of their wealth. At the same time tourist spots, like Greece, have taken a huge economic beating. So, while I do agree, that basically sitting on each other's laps in a huge hotel is definitely not a good idea, I do think that those, who have the means to at least support the tourism a little bit (or even more in their case) should continue to do so as long as the neccessary precautions can be made and noone is endangered. It may only be a droplet in the Ocean, but at least it would be that. Noone is helped with the rich and wealthy sitting on their money and showing this strange "solidarity", while spending the money might be much more helpful.

Then again, I've never given much for "symbolism"...

best wishes Michiru
If the government's advise is literally: "Ga zo min mogelijk op reis." i.e., "Travel as little as possible" it would be much better if the king followed the advice of his prime minister.

And I'm not sure how staying in their holiday home in Greece would truly help the Greek tourist industry as the other advise is (for those who decide to ignore the first advise) if you do decide to travel "stay as much as possible at your holiday destination/holiday home" - but maybe they didn't feel like following that rule either?!

While I agree that the risk in Greece isn't that high, they might spread it in Greece if one of them ends up being infected. The crew flying the government plane also had to work because of them and therefore was at risk - which goes against another regulation: "Work from home as much as possible. Only go to your work if there is truly no other option" - by deciding to go on holiday the king forced others to work outside of their home.
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  #45  
Old 10-17-2020, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I don't understand why the PM is getting criticised for this? I understand he could have advised them not to go but can he actually stop them? It feels a bit like passing the buck to me.
Not informing the vice prime minister who did your weekly press conference shows that he didn't think it was a big deal. So yes, I understand the criticism while of course, the first and foremost responsibility lies with the king and queen.

Quote:
Nos reported:

Last night, after the king had made it clear that he would abort his holiday due to all the angry reactions, the Government Information Service (RVD) announced that the prime minister was aware of the royal holiday. The statement also stated that the prime minister always has ministerial responsibility. That is to say: even if it concerns a private trip of the head of state.

The RVD does not want to say anything about how the decision to return came about and who was involved in it. It is only said that the royal couple is shocked by all the violent reactions.


Well the RVD is making it worse IMO, making it clear the King & Queen see no reason they should have to do what their own subjects have been told to do.


https://nos.nl/artikel/2352692-kamer...ooralsnog.html
My interpretation was that the final sentence was just a reference to the earlier statement. Not that the RVD talked to the journalist reiterating that they were shocked.
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  #46  
Old 10-17-2020, 05:38 PM
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Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.
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  #47  
Old 10-17-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.
The Prime Minister (Mark Rutte) did know about it, but has remained silent about it up to now.
The Vice Prime Minister (Hugo de Jonge), who did the weekly televised Conversation with the Prime Minister last Friday, did not know about it.
Neither is known whether Rutte advised W-A and Máxima against it, but then I would say that the advice should not be necessary in the first place. Common sense should prevail here, but that has been lacking.


For the rest I agree with what you wrote.
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  #48  
Old 10-17-2020, 05:54 PM
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The king and his family returned today by KLM-flight. They were back home in The Hague around 9 pm. The government plane was already on it's way back when they decided to return to the Netherlands, so they ended up taking a regular KLM-flight home.
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  #49  
Old 10-17-2020, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Yikes, I didn't read that WA and Maxima didn't notify the PM first, that does seem rather irresponsible and I go back on my original word of a decent enough apology. As reigning monarchs they have an example to set to the rest of the country and people will be influenced by what they do. Just because others travel, doesn't mean it's okay during a pandemic, and WA and Maxima should be one of the first people in the Netherlands to highlight this.
As Skippy already explained: the pm knew (but I understand it is confusing with the vice prime minister not knowing).

Which part of their original message did you construe as an apology? From my perspective, it didn't contain an apology at all. Just a note that they were surprised by the backlash and therefore decided to return to avoid further discussion.
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  #50  
Old 10-17-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
The king and his family returned today by KLM-flight. They were back home in The Hague around 9 pm. The government plane was already on it's way back when they decided to return to the Netherlands, so they ended up taking a regular KLM-flight home.
Interesting arrangements, I would have thought the government plane may have stayed on in case there was some disaster and the King was needed back home in Netherlands asap.
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  #51  
Old 10-17-2020, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
The Prime Minister (Mark Rutte) did know about it, but has remained silent about it up to now.
The Vice Prime Minister (Hugo de Jonge), who did the weekly televised Conversation with the Prime Minister last Friday, did not know about it.
Neither is known whether Rutte advised W-A and Máxima against it, but then I would say that the advice should not be necessary in the first place. Common sense should prevail here, but that has been lacking.


For the rest I agree with what you wrote.


Ah okay thank you for correcting me, I was a little confused by the situation!
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  #52  
Old 10-18-2020, 05:58 AM
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Either Rutte wasn't bothered by the trip or he advised the King not to go and he ignored the advice anyway.
WA has been acting borderline brazen and autocratic, should be careful not to overdo it, it's not the only unfortunate decision, and if things add up the public opinion could sway the other way. Yes they do a good job but they get their share of the money even though the family is super rich they get paid a lot from the State, private jets, controversies about vacation homes party paid for by the State, CP Amalia and her apanage despite not working for many years, auctioning of art works that were once bought by the state, the over control of the press with WA's definition of 'private' ... people might not keep overlooking everything only because they do a good job.
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  #53  
Old 10-18-2020, 06:12 AM
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Considering the prime ministers 'laissez-faire' attitude concerning COVID ánd the RF I would not find it surprising if he had not said a word about it. Perhaps in some decades we will know what actually happened but for now it does not matter. If he didn't advise against it he should have. If he did advice against it he should have been more forceful.

The RF did not sell artworks that were property of the state. The pieces that were auctioned of were not even part of the association 'Koninklijke verzamelingen' despite them having an inventory number. It was btw not the king who auctioned these items but the late Pss Christina, who is not a member of the royal house.
https://nos.nl/artikel/2272161-de-ku...orzichtig.html

The princess of Orange was never expected to work at the age of 18. The constitution says that she receives an income at the age of 18, as did her father, her great-mother and her great-grandmother. If parliament want to change the matter, they are free to do so. Instead they reaffirmed her income in the Wet financieel statuut van het Koninklijk Huis, only a few years ago.

As the Pss of Orange will not be receiving free housing from the state - unlike the Dss of Brabant- one could considering a good opportunity for her to save up some money so later on she can find a place that is appropriate for her position. Legally speaking I am not sure if the King can refuse the future income for his daughter, who will be an adult when the law comes into effect.
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  #54  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:09 AM
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I generally think WA and Máxima are a good team but this was a major error in judgement. The government had advised people to stay close to home and that alone should have taken a trip to Greece off the table.
The fact that the PM knew about the trip and it still happened is also problematic. It means the PM was either fine with them going, against the public advice of his own government, or he advised them not to go and they went anyway.
I assume with all the royal families there’s usually an element of solidarity with their fellow citizens in public while feeling, (unfortunately often correctly), that the rules don’t really apply to them in private. But Covid and the societal turmoil that’s come with it are unprecedented and people aren’t in the mood to be forgiving.
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  #55  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:13 AM
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PM Rutte has apologized:
https://nos.nl/artikel/2352797-rutte...ie-koning.html
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  #56  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:23 AM
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How long were the Dutch RF in Greece ,I just saw it on the BBC news.
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  #57  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
That's hardly a apology, or a statement to admitting a mistake to me tbh.

I could be, and I hope I am wrong, I feel a sense of arrogance and senselessness from DRF recently.
I think they have always been this way - you get these princes who have been handed everything from birth; nobody telling them "no", and then they push these maybe well-meaning, but out of touch and pushy partners on the world, and little wonder that the world is having none of it.

Yes, a real sense of arrogance, unfortunately.
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  #58  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
And now the King and Queen!!!
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  #59  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:28 AM
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Although the PM is responsible for the king and should have forbidden the trip, the King himself could have taken his own responsibility as most of his country is doing. Instead he needed to be nannied.

The lack of antenna is perplexing after so many years and after the work of both him and his wife has been about nothing but Corona for 7 months now. They must have seen various celebrities being crusified for either complaining or for not sticking to the spirit of the guidelines. And yet, the couple just ploughs ahead, while they have been away on vacation for 2 months this year already.

For seven months the king talked about solidarity and alertness. He even warned that we all should listen to the advice of the authorities. Fortunately for them the king and queen have built of enough credit to weather this storm but for now they have little credibility to talk about the issue and it brings back all the image-problems as jetsetters that they had successfully gotten rid of. It will be interesting to see what PR-initiatives their advisors will come up with to mend the pieces back together.
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  #60  
Old 10-18-2020, 09:50 AM
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I find it interesting that the PM has apologised but not the King and Queen. I can understand why the PM may apologise but in doing show it surely just makes it even more clear the King & Queen should also apologise. Or are they naive enough to believe they can truly get away with saying they were so poorly advised by the PM and their staff that it is not their fault.
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