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  #181  
Old 01-08-2021, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think it's adding up that they come across too entitled. People understand that he is King and gets a lot of money for his work and that the family is rich, but this year they kind of overdid it. Flaunting your wealth with a speedboat while having the government still pay for everything possible, I mean people understand that WA travels on a government plane when he does a State Visit, but for his holiday? Come on. Then the apanage of Amalia who doesn't do any public duties in return, breaking the corona rules while on holiday, then I recall there was or still is the issue with the park that is owned by WA but the government pays for maintenance on the condition that the public can use it, still WA closes it for recreation (hunting) for a month each year, so I guess at some point people thought they should give him something to think about. I hope he listens.
The State's transport fleet is for the King, 24/24 and 7/7. There is no difference in destination, so that is no argument.

The Princess of Orange has not received one Euro from the State. She will receive the constitutional income for the successor to the King when she reaches the age of consent. So that is no argument either.

The Crown Domain was owned by the Orange-Nassaus since 1684. Princess Wilhelmina donated it to the State in the 1950's under three conditions: the domain must remain intact, the domain will be returned to the Orange-Nassaus in case of an end to the monarchy and the Bearer of the Crown has the exploitation of the domain. In the 1970's Queen Juliana opened the Crown Domain but with restriction in Autumn. This has remained so under Juliana, Beatrix and Willem-Alexander. And like all nature domains also the Crown Domain receives EU and national subsidies for nature, flora and fauna management.

Then the King's speedboat moored in Greece. The King swapped his Wajer 35 for a Wajer 55. Of course the consumer's price of 2 million was formidable, but the King most likely pays "a friendly price" as best advertorial for this small Friesian family company plus his "older" Wajer 35 in return. The orders for the Wajer 55 started in 2016 when the prototype was shown on Yacht shows and the first delivery was in March 2019. The King received his Wajer 55 (probably ordered two years ago) this Spring. And then the pandemic came. Of course ideal for (social) media hyperboles as "look us suffer and see him sailing".

All in all it is a stir in a cup of tea. It is not corruptism, cronyism, nepotism, fraud, embezzlement, theft, favoritism, clientelism, bribery, abuse, prostitution, adultery, drugs use, whatever. Just an unlucky come-together of events (new boat + pandemic) and a clumsy handling (not able to stop the logistic operation of leaving for Greece when the Government came with a new advice the day before).

It is business as usual again. Yesterday's news on today's cat's litter box.
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  #182  
Old 01-08-2021, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The State's transport fleet is for the King, 24/24 and 7/7. There is no difference in destination, so that is no argument.

The Princess of Orange has not received one Euro from the State. She will receive the constitutional income for the successor to the King when she reaches the age of consent. So that is no argument either.

The Crown Domain was owned by the Orange-Nassaus since 1684. Princess Wilhelmina donated it to the State in the 1950's under three conditions: the domain must remain intact, the domain will be returned to the Orange-Nassaus in case of an end to the monarchy and the Bearer of the Crown has the exploitation of the domain. In the 1970's Queen Juliana opened the Crown Domain but with restriction in Autumn. This has remained so under Juliana, Beatrix and Willem-Alexander. And like all nature domains also the Crown Domain receives EU and national subsidies for nature, flora and fauna management.

Then the King's speedboat moored in Greece. The King swapped his Wajer 35 for a Wajer 55. Of course the consumer's price of 2 million was formidable, but the King most likely pays "a friendly price" as best advertorial for this small Friesian family company plus his "older" Wajer 35 in return. The orders for the Wajer 55 started in 2016 when the prototype was shown on Yacht shows and the first delivery was in March 2019. The King received his Wajer 55 (probably ordered two years ago) this Spring. And then the pandemic came. Of course ideal for (social) media hyperboles as "look us suffer and see him sailing".

All in all it is a stir in a cup of tea. It is not corruptism, cronyism, nepotism, fraud, embezzlement, theft, favoritism, clientelism, bribery, abuse, prostitution, adultery, drugs use, whatever. Just an unlucky come-together of events (new boat + pandemic) and a clumsy handling (not able to stop the logistic operation of leaving for Greece when the Government came with a new advice the day before).

It is business as usual again. Yesterday's news on today's cat's litter box.

Nobody is accusing the King of any crime, just of lacking common sense or clumsy handling as you call it. Obviously a lot of people saw it this way, hence the result of the poll. We will see if it is yesterdays news soon and the King continues in this way of handling his affairs in a clumsy way or if he pays attention to the state of mind of his subjects and adapts his behavior, at least in public for image reasons (as he already seems to have started).
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  #183  
Old 01-08-2021, 07:10 PM
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The King himself apologised for his trip so contrary to some posters here the king himself does seem to understand now why his trip was unwise.

A small correction: the PM did not announce the new Corona measures one day before the king's departure. He announced it on tuesday the 13th while the king left on friday the 16th. As a head of state it would not be abnormal to expect him to somehow have found the posibility to read or listen to the new announcements, especially as they were the main topic in the national press for days.

I agree that it is an insignificant issue if we compare it to other problems in the world, but so are most things. The reaction may have been overblown, not helped by -forseeable- reactions in the political world in The Hague. But it does not change the fact that the king ignored the advice of his own government and prioritised yet another vacation abroad with his new speedboat over the effort against the pandemic.

The trip was indeed legal but the polls suggest that from somebody who was born in great privilege and who is lavishly rewarded to lead a country people expect more than just that.
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  #184  
Old 01-08-2021, 09:36 PM
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The Dutch king has chosen well with his Wajer 55 https://www.wajer.com/models/wajer-55/

He is supporting Dutch design and Dutch entrepreneurs. The family money is being used for a good investment that will only appreciate in value.
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  #185  
Old 01-08-2021, 11:24 PM
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It's just a lack of decency and common sense.
If your country man can't travel, neither should the King and his family.
In the middle of a pandenic where thousands of Dutch men and women have lost their jobs due the pandemic, the King goes and buys 2 million Euro speedboat.

Willem-Alexander's actions are "beetje dom".
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  #186  
Old 01-09-2021, 02:10 AM
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Royals are meant to be role models. They should be who the public can look to for a good example during this. A vacation to play captain of his boat, when his people are in pandemic lock downs, is beyond stupid.

While its great he supported a Dutch company in buying the boat, its perhaps also not the best time to be advertising spending such money on a Luxury.
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  #187  
Old 01-09-2021, 02:23 AM
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I think most of the posters here hadn't said that their action was illegal (especially after some poster already explained the whole story). However, it violated nothing doesn't mean that it's appropriate, doesn't mean that it doesn't make they look senseless, ignorant and arrogant.

I agree that sometimes royals are being treated too strict, but also I think it's not okay to use "it's legal" to defend their not-so appropriate action. TBH the standard is pretty low if only using legality to judge one's action, whether they're royal or not. I suppose a normal responsible adult has the capability to do more than "not doing illegal thing". Still taking an overseas vacation during the pandemic, may be legal, but also is dumb and irresponsible .
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  #188  
Old 01-09-2021, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
It's just a lack of decency and common sense.
If your country man can't travel, neither should the King and his family.
In the middle of a pandenic where thousands of Dutch men and women have lost their jobs due the pandemic, the King goes and buys 2 million Euro speedboat.

Willem-Alexander's actions are "beetje dom".
But all could travel. That was the point. It was an advice to restrict travels when not possible. It was no lock-down. The royal family actually went to a safe "yellow area" where travels to were permitted, plus they did travel with own transportation to an own secluded domain in a safe and not closed area.

All this while lots of Dutch went on holiday (I myself went to Colmar in France with friends) and in the Netherlands the city centres, the IKEA's, the beaches, etc. we're so full that police had to close off and re-direct traffic.

The King and Queen immediately returned and publicly offered their excuse. That was it. Then it was the time of the End-of-the-Year reviews and the traditional stand-up comedian shows with the one joke after the other was fired about this unlucky Autumn break. That is why this episode came back in the end of the year.

It was mainly fed by (social) media and picked up by politicians with a shortage of attention like Lilian Marijnissen (Socialist Party) and Jesse Klaver (GreenLeft) - not coincidentally both leaders under electoral pressure- aiming to damage the quite favourably polling Prime Minister by attacking him for "poor leadership" by not even able to control the Government (the King is a member of Government).
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  #189  
Old 01-09-2021, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Royals are meant to be role models. They should be who the public can look to for a good example during this. A vacation to play captain of his boat, when his people are in pandemic lock downs, is beyond stupid.

While its great he supported a Dutch company in buying the boat, its perhaps also not the best time to be advertising spending such money on a Luxury.
I doubt any Dutch sees their King or Queen, or the princes and princesses as a role model. I am a Dutchman and I have never ever seen any Dutch doing something or not doing something because of the royal family. That is so typically un-Dutch, following the royal family...

That is also not at all their existence. The Kings and Queens are the head-of-state by birthright. And that is it. How can any Dutch follow their "role model" without a Golden State Carriage, without a safe stacked with glittering parures, without private estates in Italy, Argentina, Greece, without 600 people working for them, without the planes, jets, helicopters, limousines and SUV's at their disposal?

How to follow a "role model" speaking to us in a 17th C Chinese Salon studded with fabulous artworks? That whole "role model"-thing is in no any job description. Otherwise we all are bribing (Bernhard), deny extramarital children (Albert), evade taxes (Juan Carlos), befriend criminals (Andrew) or bitterly fight each other in public (Charles and Diana).

For so far the "role model" of royals, nipping a cool glass of De Nonancourt bubbling champagne Grand Siècle Rosé Millésimé while watching a concours hippique seated in a royal loge.
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  #190  
Old 01-09-2021, 05:57 AM
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I´ve read in a german magazine today that, besides the things mentioned before, many dutch people prefered the more "royal", a bit more reserved style of the then Queen Beatrix and that the King would compulsionary try to present himself and his family as "common", as people such as you and I - while at the same time being not.
They also claimed, it is criticised that the King was obviously trying to transform the monarchy from a constitutionally relevant institution with a "real" constitutional task into a somewhat mere symbolic, ceremonial royal house. I don´t know of course if this is true - it is just what I have read.
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  #191  
Old 01-09-2021, 08:22 AM
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"role model" is a matter of definition, i think practically no one in the netherlands thinks or the RF as a role model literally, as in "what they would model their own life to be".

but imo almost everybody thinks the RF should "lead by example" or "have an exemplary function".
If a head of state is not even supposed to lead by example, there is very little reason to have such a head of state.

The fact they issued a public apology means that at least someone in the government of the country realises that what they did was, though not illegal, not setting a good example.

At least they don't downplay the issue themselves, i think we'll see more of the RF this year in an official way (in whichever way covid will allow)
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  #192  
Old 01-09-2021, 09:18 AM
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The prime minister when he announced the regulations (3 days before the king left) -i.e., advising to only go on necessary trips -, said among other things:

"We have to be stricter to ourselves and stricter in our behavior"
"In addition, I want to say that not everything that is formally allowed, should be done"
"It is up to us, it is up to us all. Don't be that stubborn person who is pushing the boundaries of the rules. Be that realistic Dutch (wo)man who stands up and takes his/her responsibility when it comes down to it. And that is now."

The PM was aware that not everybody would heed his advice, i.e., take his/her responsibility, so did indeed specify that if you were to ignore his advice, a 'yellow' country was preferable over an 'orange country'; so it was a bit of a mixed message.

Nonetheless imho holiday trips cannot be considered necessary; so, anyone going on such a trip is ignoring the advice of the government (most of the year the government worked with 'advice' instead of 'laws' thinking the Dutch might be more rebellious if something was ordered instead of advised; this only changed in December when several formal regulations were implemented) and by doing so not taking the responsibility the PM called for. Of course, the king was not the only one showing irresponsible behavior by ignoring the strong advice of the government to not unnecessarily travel abroad. Nonetheless, there were many others who did take the situation seriously and changed their plans - many of them felt let down.
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  #193  
Old 01-09-2021, 09:48 AM
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Will they have Vacation in Lech this year ?
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  #194  
Old 01-09-2021, 10:04 AM
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I should say they'll be very cautious about Holidays this year...
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  #195  
Old 01-09-2021, 10:22 AM
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The prime minister already stated, in parliament, that it would be antisocial ('asociaal' in Dutch has a very negative connotation; as it typically used to refer to the scum of society) to go on winter sports. So, if they are smart, they won't - unless the government withdraws the urgent advice to not travel abroad until March (unless strictly necessary).

More specifically his words were:
"If you have the impudence to go on a winter sports holiday or to fly in the coming weeks, when you have no urgent reason to do so, it is just anti-social. You just shouldn't do that right now. There is a reason why there is negative travel advice."
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  #196  
Old 01-09-2021, 12:44 PM
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If they have any common sense they will cancel any plans for Lech. But common sense has long been a problem with the couple...

By the way, where do the couple stand for vaccination. Because of their royal status will the royal house be prioritized for getting vaccinated?
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  #197  
Old 01-09-2021, 12:56 PM
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I think the ski resorts are all closed except for in Switerland at the moment so they couldn’t go if they wanted.

I think its a bit catch 22 whether should be vaccinated before others. I think if I was expected to visit places and people, I would hope to be done sooner rather than later. But presumably as they are youngish and healthy they would be far down any lists. They’ve said they are going to have them as it was announced in the week but I doubt they’ll announce when they actually get them
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  #198  
Old 01-09-2021, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I´ve read in a german magazine today that, besides the things mentioned before, many dutch people prefered the more "royal", a bit more reserved style of the then Queen Beatrix and that the King would compulsionary try to present himself and his family as "common", as people such as you and I - while at the same time being not.
They also claimed, it is criticised that the King was obviously trying to transform the monarchy from a constitutionally relevant institution with a "real" constitutional task into a somewhat mere symbolic, ceremonial royal house. I don´t know of course if this is true - it is just what I have read.
That is not what the King himself want. It is his own politic antenna, which failed under his mother Queen Beatrix whom met more and more resistance for her political role. It was under Queen Beatrix that the formation of new Cabinets excluded a role for the King. It was under Queen Beatrix that her Christmas Adresses drew fierce criticisms.

King Willem-Alexander, rightly, saw that there was no role anymore for a political King and steered himself to a "Swedish Model". In theory the Dutch monarch has a lot of powers. In reality he chooses a fully ceremonial role.

Personally I prefer the more distant kingship of Queen Beatrix. But the popularity scores of the King and Queen from 2013 to 2020: she could only dream about it. I feel many Dutch prefer the folksy, approachable and good-natured way the King and Queen act. For an example: babbling to reporters of Blauw Bloed or answering questions from journalists awaiting her: Queen Beatrix would never do that in her days.

Even the searing-in of a new Cabinet, meeting Ambassadors or opening palaces was met with resistance by Queen Beatrix. She thought it would take away the distance. King Willem-Alexander just puts all visitors on social media and has annu openings of the palaces (except Huis ten Bosch, which was opened for visitors when it was not in use as a private house).
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  #199  
Old 01-09-2021, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
If they have any common sense they will cancel any plans for Lech. But common sense has long been a problem with the couple...

By the way, where do the couple stand for vaccination. Because of their royal status will the royal house be prioritized for getting vaccinated?
For a pair with your claim that "common sense has long been a problem" they have enjoyed remarkably all-time high approval ratings for all these consecutive years.

It is communicated that Princess Beatrix (in her eighties) and the King and Queen will be vaccinated according general scheme laid out by the Covid Outbreak Management Team. None of them will request any preference and will follow the plan of their local GGD (municipal health services).
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  #200  
Old 01-09-2021, 03:02 PM
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They are not stupid, they have already started to do damage control & I am rather certain that they will not make the same mistake twice. Not after what their Greece trip cost them in popularity - that was really quite significant.

It wouldn't easily be possible anyhow. Austria has been in lockdown since the beginning of November and we continue to be in lockdown for the foreseeable future. Hotels are closed and while many ski lifts are operating, it's for the locals really. We haven't had any winter tourism this season and realistically, there probably won't be any in February or March either.
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