The Princess of Orange, Pss Alexia and Pss Ariane, News Part 2 (Feb 2019 -Dec 2021)

[Somebody]

I thought I read another poster mention they talked about her doing a gap year after high school, after the press conference.

Now I am confused, as I went to find the post to see if I was mixing up Amalia and Eloise. I am confused as this was Your post.

The military masters degree open to civilians seems a good option for her if she wants to get some experience.

I agree for her actual bachelors degree I would think she would be in the Netherlands. But I wouldn't rule out a semester abroad. But if she wants to do a whole degree, a masters later in a different country would make sense.

Thanks! It seems that I mixed it up. I guess both parents discussed it (or I am really confused)

 

[Blog Real]

Not necessarily. In Belgium the King (and eventually queen) is the commander and chief of the armed forces. So it makes sense that Elisabeth is encouraged to at least do the one year program.

In the Netherlands, the monarch hasn't been commander in chief since 1983. So there wouldn't be the same pressure for a monarch to have experience. That doesn't rule out her joining.

I don't know. Is there an option in the Netherlands like Elisabeth is doing? Could she go in for a training program but not actually join the armed forces? Elisabeth is not enlisted, she is simply taking an one year program at the military academy. Is there such an option in the Netherlands?

I don't believe, correct me if I am wrong, that either of the king's brothers did military training. I know he did before he went to university.

I think they will likely wait until spring to make any choices. It seems to have been said earlier that the plan was for Amalia to take a gap year and then go to university. I would thin university plans would need to be cemented in the spring. If it looks like a gap year is not possible next fall, or may not be possible, she may just apply to start university right away.

If she misses her gap year maybe she will get the opportunity for a semester abroad program. Or some other chance to live abroad later on. Both of her Uncles did part of their university abroad. And she certainly wouldn't be the first heir to go to university in another country (Fred spent time at Harvard, Victoria at Yale, Felipe did Georgetown with Pavlos, Haakon at the London school of economics, Philippe at Oxford and Stanford). Her father did his university in the Netherlands but he had the chance to study abroad during secondary school having attended the same school in Wales that Elisabeth just graduated from. Charles and Andrew both spent time during secondary school abroad, Charles in Australia and Andrew Canada.


I assume she will likely take similar courses to many of the heirs have done. Political science, international relations type route. Her sisters will have more freedom in what they study.

Exactly in Belgium and Spain also the king is the commander and head of the armed forces.
Then Princess Catharina-Amalia won't have to have military training.
Princess Leonor of Spain, according to the Spanish press, is expected to have military training as is Princess Elisabeth of Belgium. The Princess of Orange will have more freedom in that regard.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

In the Netherlands the Government ( = King and ministers) hold the supreme command on the armed forces, on foreign relations, on declaring war, etc.

The modernization in 1983 made the articles in the Constitution in line with reality: yes, in 1815 it was the King, and the King alone, to decide but we have evolued to a parliamentary democracy.

And exactly because the Government ( = King and ministers) hold the supreme command, members of the Government can not be an active military. This would mean the Commander commanding himself. That is why the Prince of Orange laid down all his military commissions before assuming the kingship.

The Dutch position is constitutionally the most true to daily reality, in this aspect, as in reality King Philippe has zero comma zero authority as "supreme commander" as every hiccup has to be covered by the ministers. We have seen with Leopold III what the outcome is when a King does not follow ministerial limits.

 

[Somebody]

Lots of 'Amalia'-news today. At least four of today's headlines at the NOS-website include her:
Dienstplicht nu ook voor meisjes, prinses Amalia krijgt ook een uitnodiging (Conscription now also for girls, princess Amalia also gets an invitation)
Wekdienst: Bedreiger prinses Amalia voor de rechter (Wake-up service: Threatner princess Amalia in court)
OM eist cel en tbs voor man die prinses Amalia bedreigde (OM demands prison and tbs for man who threatened princess Amalia)
Amalia en Alexia bleven achter in Griekenland, keerden vanavond pas terug (Amalia and Alixia remained in Greece, returned only tonight) (see general family topic for this discussion on TRF)

 

[cathy50]

So we will see if Amalia accept call for duty or not.
I liked to discover how other RF prepare their future heirs, the Dutch RF does very differently lets hope it will work out for them. I am sure though Amalia does not show much effort in the public eye she is getting prepared secretly .

 

[Somebody]

So we will see if Amalia accept call for duty or not.
I liked to discover how other RF prepare their future heirs, the Dutch RF does very differently lets hope it will work out for them. I am sure though Amalia does not show much effort in the public eye she is getting prepared secretly .

Maybe it's good to explain this a little better. Conscription still exists but the compulsory attendance has been suspended, so, the letter that Amalia will receive will tell her (as it has been telling 17-year old boys since 1996) that she is conscripted but that she is not expected to show up (as the Netherlands has a professional army) but might at a later point be called to take up the arms if it the security situation would require so. Her year of birth is the first in which not only the boys but also the girls receive this letter.

So, she isn't turning anything down or taking anything up. If she would decide to register for military training that would be unrelated to this letter.

 

[Muhler]

Does the Netherlands have a Home Guard/Territorial Army/National Guard that she could join on a part time basis? And thereby have some indirect affiliation with the armed forces.

 

[REAL COUNTESS]

Yes as future Queen she will be the Commander in Chief of all the Military. So yes she should get to know the workings of the Armed Forces of the Netherland, hopefully she will serve as well.

 

[Countessmeout]

Yes as future Queen she will be the Commander in Chief of all the Military. So yes she should get to know the workings of the Armed Forces of the Netherland, hopefully she will serve as well.

The monarch has not been the commander and chief of the Dutch army since 1983. The position lays with the government now, not the monarch, since the change in constitution in 83.

There is a Dutch National reserve if she wished to have some service.

 

[Katymcwaity]

Does the Netherlands have a Home Guard/Territorial Army/National Guard that she could join on a part time basis? And thereby have some indirect affiliation with the armed forces.

Since she’s not head of the Armed Forces, I don’t think she needs to unless she wants to. Its not the same as the Duchess of Brabant who will be head of the Armed Forces in Belgium I don’t think her Grandmother did any military training?

 

[Somebody]

And her father even laid down all his active military status when he became king because it was considered not compatible with his new role as head of state.

 

[Somebody]

The monarch has not been the commander and chief of the Dutch army since 1983. The position lays with the government now, not the monarch, since the change in constitution in 83.

There is a Dutch National reserve if she wished to have some service.

Yes indeed, see the website 'Reservist worden' (become a 'reservist'; it's in Dutch but as always, google translate is your friend )

One of the requirements is that your employer is ok with it; would her father be considered her employer? Or the government as a whole? Or only the Cabinet (excluding the king)? Or the State-General? Or will she be self-employed?

 

[Muhler]

Yes indeed, see the website 'Reservist worden' (become a 'reservist'; it's in Dutch but as always, google translate is your friend )

One of the requirements is that your employer is ok with it; would her father be considered her employer? Or the government as a whole? Or only the Cabinet (excluding the king)? Or the State-General? Or will she be self-employed?

Ah, so it's a Home Guard.

I imagine there would be very little to hinder her in joining up. Do some basic training and go through a crash course as NCO, officer and later staff work, ending up having a rank a la suite. I.e. without having a command.
Pretty much like CP Mary.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The monarch has not been the commander and chief of the Dutch army since 1983. The position lays with the government now, not the monarch, since the change in constitution in 83.

There is a Dutch National reserve if she wished to have some service.

Since 1983 the Constitution says that the Government holds the supreme command of the Armed Forces. The Government comprises of the King and the ministers.

On the eve of his Kingship, the Prince of Orange had to lay down all military assignments because active military can not be a member of Government: it would mean that military are commanding themselves.
This modernisation of 1983 is in fact an adaptation to standing practice since 1848. Since then no any monarch has hold a real command over the armed forces.

In Belgium the Constitution has not been modernised on this topic but it is clear that no any King of the Belgians in modern era has ever held real authority over the armed forces. Always and ever they were moving within the cadres set by the Government.

Like any retired officer, the King can wear uniforms. Special insignia have been made, comprising an orb, a sword and a sceptre. See picture, not the insignia of a general, or insignia of an admiral, but the exclusive insignia of The King: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cf/48/c0/cf48c04f6d26c2e82db46b9051686e7c.jpg

 

[cathy50]

Maybe it's good to explain this a little better. Conscription still exists but the compulsory attendance has been suspended, so, the letter that Amalia will receive will tell her (as it has been telling 17-year old boys since 1996) that she is conscripted but that she is not expected to show up (as the Netherlands has a professional army) but might at a later point be called to take up the arms if it the security situation would require so. Her year of birth is the first in which not only the boys but also the girls receive this letter.

So, she isn't turning anything down or taking anything up. If she would decide to register for military training that would be unrelated to this letter.

I know. My post was not related to it but the general discussion about her future.

 

[victor1319]

The Letter

All dutch 17s get this letter, this "invitation" to the armed service.

But as a Crown Princess you ain't an ordinary teenager, but a role model, a super influencer.

It makes me wonder, if the Crown Princess has any realistic chance to turn down this offer...

---------------
Make love not war!

 

[Susan D]

I think that Princess Amalia has no career choice and that such is one of the huge drawbacks for royalty.

 

[Muhler]

I think that Princess Amalia has no career choice and that such is one of the huge drawbacks for royalty.

It is however also an opportunity to really get to know and bond with very different people from all parts of the Dutch society.
As well as giving her an opportunity to test herself and some of her limits and win the respect of her mates in that way.
The first 30 km forced cross country march with full gear in darkness and no sleep, popping blisters together, being soaking wet together, being muddy and ending in a: We did it! That's a good little victory for a young person.

To paraphrase an all time favorite from the military: You can do twice as much as you yourself think you can, and ten times as much as your dad think his little girl can do. ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Every citizen aged 17, regardless gender, gets a letter in which they are told that they have been registered, but that they do not have to present themselves for service.

From the 14 grandchildren of Queen Juliana only the Prince of Orange (Royal Navy and pilot's license at the Royal Air Force), Maurits van Vollenhoven (Royal Navy) and Pieter-Christiaan van Vollenhoven (Royal Marechaussee) had any link to the military. The first two because there still was compulsory military service. The last one by own career choice.

The compulsory attendance has been officially suspended since 1 May 1997. This means that cadets entering the Royal Military Academy (officers) or aspirants entering the Royal Military School (non-officers) are aiming for a professional career in the Armed Forces.

I doubt Princess Catharina-Amalia is aiming for a professional career in one of the armed forces. No any of her female predecessors ever had military assignments but all were great Queens.

 

[Somebody]

All dutch 17s get this letter, this "invitation" to the armed service.

But as a Crown Princess you ain't an ordinary teenager, but a role model, a super influencer.

It makes me wonder, if the Crown Princess has any realistic chance to turn down this offer...

---------------
Make love not war!

As Duc_et_Pair and I explained that is not the main point of this letter. It is just to inform her and all others born in 2003 that they will be subscripted but their services is suspended unless the need would arise (which hasn't happened since the Dutch turned to a fully professional army).

While in other countries, there is a much stronger military tradition within the royal family, as the Dutch have had reigning queens for over a decade, this is not a traditional expectation in the Netherlands. I do think some people might appreciate it if she did something military related but most don't care at all. If she would forfeit university education, that would be completely unexpected but forfeiting military service not so much.

So, yes, it is definitely an offer she can refuse: she is not expected to be in the military as her professional career choice; her career is very straight-forward: 'princess of Orange' followed by 'queen' (followed by support act of her heir as 'princess Catharina-Amalia' after abdication).

 

[victor1319]

So, yes, it is definitely an offer she can refuse: she is not expected to be in the military as her professional career choice;

We'll see... Royalty means very much too, to be an exceptional citizen in a lot of regards, a role model. And since this "letter" is a new approach, wouldn't it be a thing to wish for, that the Cown Princess leads by example?

 

[Somebody]

We'll see... Royalty means very much too, to be an exceptional citizen in a lot of regards, a role model. And since this "letter" is a new approach, wouldn't it be a thing to wish for, that the Cown Princess leads by example?

No, this is not a new approach at all. This letter is not a call to military service at all; on the contrary, it tells them that military service is no longer expected (while it was in the past): the Netherlands prefers a smaller and more efficient professional army instead. The letter has been send for about 25 years now telling all men they are NOT expected to turn up for service. Now it is also telling the women they are NOT expected to turn up for service.

If the Netherlands would some day find itself at war and all these young men and women are unexpectedly called to service, in that case your argument that she should lead by example might take hold but currently, this letter is seen as a formality informing young people that they have to do nothing. So, leading by example and being an exceptional citizen, in this case would mean to do nothing and hope that the situation in which all these men and women are called up under the arms will never arise.

 

[victor1319]

No, this is not a new approach at all. This letter is not a call to military service at all; on the contrary, ....Now it is also telling the women they are NOT expected to turn up for service.

That is, what I meant: Girls get the letter now too!

And imagine, girl No. 1, the Crown Princess, is not leading by example!

 

[Lee-Z]

So basically she'll lead by example by *not* going into the military as everyone who gets the letter is supposed to not do so either

She could do 'Social Service' though, or maybe already does or did, that's not uncommon these days..

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The problem is a bit that the King enrolled into conscription (military service). But conscription has ended in 1997. Since then the Armed Forces (Army, Navy, Air Force and Marechaussee) are fully professional.

So when the Princess of Orange enrolls at the Royal Military Academy (in her dynasty's oldest ancestral venue in the Netherlands, the Nassau Castle in Breda), she has chosen for a professional military career.

But she can do alike the Duchess of Brabant, who has enrolled for one year of social and military science (so not the full four years). Under the current Belgian Constitution the King (formally) holds the supreme command of the Armed Forces.

That is the difference with the Netherlands where the Government ( = King and ministers) holds the supreme command over the Armed Forces. Unlike in Belgium the Dutch King himself is part of Goverrnent. And no active military are allowed to sit in Government, which intrinsically rules out the King to be Commander in Chief.

 

[Countessmeout]

We'll see... Royalty means very much too, to be an exceptional citizen in a lot of regards, a role model. And since this "letter" is a new approach, wouldn't it be a thing to wish for, that the Cown Princess leads by example?

But it wouldnt be leading by example. And leading decades too late as this is not a new program.

It would actually do the opposite. The Netherlands had been promoting their 'professional army'. Having soldiers who want to be in the military, who want a career in the armed services. Not the idea 'we need as many soldiers as possible so we will drill the only way to serve your country is to serve in the army' rhetoric some countries put out.

Catharina Amalia will never have a career in the military. Her future is as Queen. That is her career. She would in fact be setting a poor example.

There are other ways for her to show a good example of her service to her people. Through community work and involvement.

 

[Somebody]

That is, what I meant: Girls get the letter now too!

And imagine, girl No. 1, the Crown Princess, is not leading by example!

How would she be leading by example by doing exactly the opposite of what she is supposed to do?

Let's assume everyone is told not to attend a certain event (except for those strictly necessary) due to Covid-19 but wait until it is safe again to do so. Would it be leading by example to turn up nonetheless insisting that it is important to lead by example by showing up because some people are needed?

FYI: the professional army has been available as a career option for girls for several decades but it isn't the ultimate career but one of many valuable career options. Is Amalia supposed to also be a doctor and a nurse (very much valued), a judge (one of the high offices), a cashier (an essential worker), a cleaner (I think we all know how important their job is), a teacher (what can be more important than teaching the new generation), etc., because she is to lead by example? Or does that only apply to the military; and if so, why?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

She would in fact be setting a poor example.

How would she be leading by example by doing exactly the opposite of what she is supposed to do?

Let's assume everyone is told not to attend a certain event (except for those strictly necessary) due to Covid-19 but wait until it is safe again to do so. Would it be leading by example to turn up nonetheless insisting that it is important to lead by example by showing up because some people are needed?

Thus, if the Princess of Orange were to voluntarily enroll for military service, it would not only be unappreciated by the public, it would be perceived as poor behavior which puts others in danger, just as with flouting Covid-19 guidelines? Could you explain why that is?

 

[Countessmeout]

Thus, if the Princess of Orange were to voluntarily enroll for military service, it would not only be unappreciated by the public, it would be perceived as poor behavior which puts others in danger, just as with flouting Covid-19 guidelines? Could you explain why that is?

I dont recall ever comparing it to Covid or suggesting it would be dangerous to other lives

What I said is it doesnt set a good example.

The Dutch military policy: We want professional soldiers. Join the army if you want a career.

Catharina-Amalia joining: I just want to join for a year or two to be a 'poster girl' for other women. And then I will quit to follow my real career.


It costs the military money and time and resources to train soldiers. They are making it very clear they wish to spend that money on career soldiers who will use the time and money invested in them, for the future of the Dutch army. If CA has no intention at a career, even some years before queen, in the military there is no need for her to waste the money and resources on her training.

Elisabeth, William/George, Leonor are different as they will one day be commander in chief.

If she actually has an infinity for being a soldier, and wants to actively serve for a few decades before she is queen, that would be another matter. But yes, joining just for the sake of 'a royal example' is not setting a good example.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

My post quoted both your comment and Somebody's, and the latter included the Covid-19 comparison.

But thank you for explaining your rationale.