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  #61  
Old 12-20-2019, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
I suspect it may have to do with her attitude. More attention for what her friends shows on her smartphone.

It's today's general teenage (and not only teenage...) attitude all around, but Catharina-Amalia is not a "general teenager".

If this is not what is meant, then I am curious to learn as well.
Complete nonsense. This is the general attitude of our society, not just teenagers and let me just say here that teenagers of this era care a whole lot more about our society and planet than the boomers all combined together.

She is sixteen and if she is doing this out of her own free will, kudos to her. There is nothing wrong with a teenager looking at something on someone's phone for a couple of seconds. She is still a kid.
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I'm surprised they allowed Amalia and her friends to use their phones if it was meant to be an educational visit for her role as future queen. It does seem in rather poor taste, but it's not just a generational thing, British PM Boris Johnson has been found guilty of doing the same.

*This*! This is what I meant in shortened form, but as I am one of details I seem to lack that capability.
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Complete nonsense. This is the general attitude of our society, not just teenagers and let me just say here that teenagers of this era care a whole lot more about our society and planet than the boomers all combined together.

She is sixteen and if she is doing this out of her own free will, kudos to her. There is nothing wrong with a teenager looking at something on someone's phone for a couple of seconds. She is still a kid.

Talk about an unexpected arrow towards me...

It's *not* complete nonsense. What you say about it being the general attitude of our society, I believe I said just that between parentheses. It's even in the part that you bolded....
And the use of the word "boomers" is disparaging - as if they are less than today's teenagers.

"For a couple of seconds", we don't know that. We only saw a few seconds of film. Most teenagers *and* others (parents and others) are glued to their phone for longer than minutes. In general I believe that the majority of today's society has an unhealthy connection to their phone.
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  #63  
Old 12-20-2019, 06:51 PM
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It's not an arrow at you but bolded it because this is what used against Millenials and Generation Z and someone was trying it. I'm just not here for people having a dig at a 16 year old girl, or teenagers in general, for looking at their phone and weaponising it against them.
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  #64  
Old 12-22-2019, 07:05 PM
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Well; I'm an older Gen-Z (who does like to "ok boomer" people when needed ) and still found it surprising that Amalia and her friends were allowed to look at their phones during the meetings especially if this was meant to be a visit of personal interest. I actually find that parents and people of older generations who use mobiles tend to be worse "offenders" of using their phone when they're meant to be in a professional situation I work in a shop and don't use my phone when there are customers shopping, only when they're gone and I've got absolutely nothing else to do I browse my phone. It just seems like a common courtesy to keep phones away or at least appear interested at such an event where one is in a professional situation. I'd expect this of someone double or even triple of Amalia's age too.
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  #65  
Old 12-23-2019, 03:01 AM
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Afaik it wasn't an official visit to a meeting.. these sessions are open for the public to attend, so you and I could also go there and sit in the stands to watch the goings on.
The difference being ofcourse is that when I would go there, noone would take a picture of me

So it's a public outing to a session that is a regular governmemt meeting, so I'm sure has some dull moments inbetween. When my class once visited (in a different millenium ) we'd chitchat amongst ourselves and show eachother the memorabilia we bought in those dull moments, but if mobile phones had been invented then, i bet we would have looked at them
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  #66  
Old 12-23-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
Well; I'm an older Gen-Z (who does like to "ok boomer" people when needed ) and still found it surprising that Amalia and her friends were allowed to look at their phones during the meetings especially if this was meant to be a visit of personal interest. I actually find that parents and people of older generations who use mobiles tend to be worse "offenders" of using their phone when they're meant to be in a professional situation I work in a shop and don't use my phone when there are customers shopping, only when they're gone and I've got absolutely nothing else to do I browse my phone. It just seems like a common courtesy to keep phones away or at least appear interested at such an event where one is in a professional situation. I'd expect this of someone double or even triple of Amalia's age too.
Who was supposed to forbid Amalia and her friend from looking at their phones? (I only saw her friend's phone, are there any phones of Amalia even looking at her own phone?) And do the same rules apply to anyone attending out of interest or just curiosity? Who is supposed to monitor each and everyone of the general public and what kind of sanctions (by whom) should be applied if they don't behave as expected?

They were just general members of the public who can do as they please as long as they don't interrupt whatever is going on downstairs in the Second Chamber (Parliament). There is no obligation for anyone attending to pay full attention to even the dullest moments (discussing what will be discussed when in this case). The fact that they chose to attend in itself is laudable imo; and as it is a purely private visit, it cannot be compared to any official or professional role.

So, the comparison between someone at work taking care of customers and the general public visiting parliament is invalid imo. Unless, in your shop the employees actively tell anyone coming in that they have to pay full attention to shopping and are not allowed to chat among each other or look at their phones (and even in that case: someone shopping is taking a more active part in the activity than someone just looking on while others are shopping).
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  #67  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
It's not an arrow at you but bolded it because this is what used against Millenials and Generation Z and someone was trying it. I'm just not here for people having a dig at a 16 year old girl, or teenagers in general, for looking at their phone and weaponising it against them.
The claim that "(and not only teenage...)" is a more "weaponised" statement than "teenagers of this era care a whole lot more about our society and planet than the boomers all combined together" is rather hard to support.
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  #68  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:18 AM
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We recently saw some ministers looking at their own phones during an actual debate. Mrs. Karib - the chairwoman- even confiquated a phone of a parliamentarian to make a point. So a teenage girl can be forgiven checking her friends phone while the house was discussing the agenda. Many members of parliament will have been doing the same. I think it is great she is showing interest by going to parliament in her free time.
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  #69  
Old 12-23-2019, 07:26 AM
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Note that the Princess herself was not seen with a phone. She was there with two classmates. Only one of this trio had a mobile in hand and frequently showed the two other classmate what was going on her phone. That is all.
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  #70  
Old 12-23-2019, 09:26 AM
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The Princess of Orange, Princesses Alexia and Ariane, News Part 2 (Feb 2019 -present)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Who was supposed to forbid Amalia and her friend from looking at their phones? (I only saw her friend's phone, are there any phones of Amalia even looking at her own phone?) And do the same rules apply to anyone attending out of interest or just curiosity? Who is supposed to monitor each and everyone of the general public and what kind of sanctions (by whom) should be applied if they don't behave as expected?



They were just general members of the public who can do as they please as long as they don't interrupt whatever is going on downstairs in the Second Chamber (Parliament). There is no obligation for anyone attending to pay full attention to even the dullest moments (discussing what will be discussed when in this case). The fact that they chose to attend in itself is laudable imo; and as it is a purely private visit, it cannot be compared to any official or professional role.



So, the comparison between someone at work taking care of customers and the general public visiting parliament is invalid imo. Unless, in your shop the employees actively tell anyone coming in that they have to pay full attention to shopping and are not allowed to chat among each other or look at their phones (and even in that case: someone shopping is taking a more active part in the activity than someone just looking on while others are shopping).


Ouch, there’s no need to be so harsh or tell me my opinion isn’t valid. It’s a public discussion forum, so we are all allowed to share our opinions and you will disagree with them. Doesn’t mean they’re not valid.

Nobody needs to forbid Amalia and her friends from using their phone, I guess my point was that it should just be natural when in such a situation. I even said that I appreciate it can be long and boring, so I totally get that, but to me it just didn’t seem totally professional. I would say the same about anyone using their phone in such an event. Amalia isn’t a general member of the public, she is the future queen so certain things are expected of her that won’t be expected of her friends sitting next to her. Yes, I’m also aware that Amalia herself wasn’t using the phone and no, I’m not being too harsh or critical. I don’t normally like criticising minors, but I’ve seen a lot of phone usage in Parliament (here in the UK too from very senior members of cabinet) and as you can tell it’s something that doesn’t sit well with me personally. And that’s from anyone of any age.

That’s all. No need to be so up in arms. I think it’s fantastic that Amalia shows interest in parliament and wants to see what her future role will bring her, but I still stand by my opinion which I won’t repeat again because it’ll be tiring. I didn’t want for this to blow up or be unfairly critiqued. You can disagree with me, fine, but don’t tell me my contributions aren’t valid, because that’s not fair. I didn’t intend to criticise Amalia herself at all, it was more the action of using the phone that bothered me rather than the individuals themselves. It would’ve been the same if Maxima or even Beatrix had done this. If I’d known it would’ve caused this much of a fuss, I wouldn’t have commented in the first place!
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  #71  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Note that the Princess herself was not seen with a phone. She was there with two classmates. Only one of this trio had a mobile in hand and frequently showed the two other classmate what was going on her phone. That is all.
And perhaps the content of the phone she showed actually had something to do with the visit.
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  #72  
Old 12-23-2019, 01:48 PM
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Ouch, there’s no need to be so harsh or tell me my opinion isn’t valid. It’s a public discussion forum, so we are all allowed to share our opinions and you will disagree with them. Doesn’t mean they’re not valid.

Nobody needs to forbid Amalia and her friends from using their phone, I guess my point was that it should just be natural when in such a situation. I even said that I appreciate it can be long and boring, so I totally get that, but to me it just didn’t seem totally professional. I would say the same about anyone using their phone in such an event. Amalia isn’t a general member of the public, she is the future queen so certain things are expected of her that won’t be expected of her friends sitting next to her. Yes, I’m also aware that Amalia herself wasn’t using the phone and no, I’m not being too harsh or critical. I don’t normally like criticising minors, but I’ve seen a lot of phone usage in Parliament (here in the UK too from very senior members of cabinet) and as you can tell it’s something that doesn’t sit well with me personally. And that’s from anyone of any age.

That’s all. No need to be so up in arms. I think it’s fantastic that Amalia shows interest in parliament and wants to see what her future role will bring her, but I still stand by my opinion which I won’t repeat again because it’ll be tiring. I didn’t want for this to blow up or be unfairly critiqued. You can disagree with me, fine, but don’t tell me my contributions aren’t valid, because that’s not fair. I didn’t intend to criticise Amalia herself at all, it was more the action of using the phone that bothered me rather than the individuals themselves. It would’ve been the same if Maxima or even Beatrix had done this. If I’d known it would’ve caused this much of a fuss, I wouldn’t have commented in the first place!
You are fully entitled to your opinion; I just stated that in my opinion (=imo) your comparison between someone at work vs someone being present somewhere is invalid.

Nonetheless, I am glad to read that you came around a little and state that Amalia should not be forbidden from using her phone; so, that means that she should be allowed to do so if she wishes to... I just hope that Amalia feels free to keep coming; as it seems all of us are equally impressed (and would encourage her) that she is coming out of personal interest (and partly in preparation for her future role).

The point I tried to make that seemed not to come across: You keep comparing Amalia's behavior to those that actively have a role to play in parliament (such as cabinet members - who indeed check their phones a lot as well; partly because their staff members might be sending them relevant information I'd assume); while she is only an 'onlooker'. I don't think that is a fair comparison - but of course you may think differently.

Let me try to explain it with an example that many people might be familiar with. Lots of people attend sports games. Of course, the players (and coaches etc) are supposed to be fully concentrated all the time. It's their job to do the best they can to get the best results. This same expectation is not put upon the spectators. The fans will most likely pay a lot of attention on critical moments but might talk to their neighbors or look at their phone at other times; and that's totally fine. They do not have an official role to play.

And in this case, the game is even put on 'for the spectators to enjoy'. In the case of Parliament they are just going about their own business and members of the general public are allowed to watch but are not supposed to interfere in any way nor are they debating because of those present at the 'public gallery'. They would do so, if it were full or empty.

Continuing the analogy, if spectators would be seated in places of honor they might be slightly more aware of the cameras being focused on them and will adjust their behavior accordingly (I am quite sure Amalia lives a life of 'adjustments' just because of her position); but as the 'public gallery' doesn't have such a thing and the final row surely would not be that place for 'further adjustments'. Imo it is hard to argue that anyone seated on the public gallery should be on 'their best behavior' all the time; they should behave 'decent' and should not disturb what's going in 'downstairs', that's all.

I think, I'll leave it at that. Feel free to respond but if I don't, it's not because you don't make interesting points but mainly because I don't want to end up in a back-and-forth.
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  #73  
Old 12-23-2019, 05:32 PM
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You are fully entitled to your opinion; I just stated that in my opinion (=imo) your comparison between someone at work vs someone being present somewhere is invalid.

Nonetheless, I am glad to read that you came around a little and state that Amalia should not be forbidden from using her phone; so, that means that she should be allowed to do so if she wishes to... I just hope that Amalia feels free to keep coming; as it seems all of us are equally impressed (and would encourage her) that she is coming out of personal interest (and partly in preparation for her future role).

The point I tried to make that seemed not to come across: You keep comparing Amalia's behavior to those that actively have a role to play in parliament (such as cabinet members - who indeed check their phones a lot as well; partly because their staff members might be sending them relevant information I'd assume); while she is only an 'onlooker'. I don't think that is a fair comparison - but of course you may think differently.

Let me try to explain it with an example that many people might be familiar with. Lots of people attend sports games. Of course, the players (and coaches etc) are supposed to be fully concentrated all the time. It's their job to do the best they can to get the best results. This same expectation is not put upon the spectators. The fans will most likely pay a lot of attention on critical moments but might talk to their neighbors or look at their phone at other times; and that's totally fine. They do not have an official role to play.

And in this case, the game is even put on 'for the spectators to enjoy'. In the case of Parliament they are just going about their own business and members of the general public are allowed to watch but are not supposed to interfere in any way nor are they debating because of those present at the 'public gallery'. They would do so, if it were full or empty.

Continuing the analogy, if spectators would be seated in places of honor they might be slightly more aware of the cameras being focused on them and will adjust their behavior accordingly (I am quite sure Amalia lives a life of 'adjustments' just because of her position); but as the 'public gallery' doesn't have such a thing and the final row surely would not be that place for 'further adjustments'. Imo it is hard to argue that anyone seated on the public gallery should be on 'their best behavior' all the time; they should behave 'decent' and should not disturb what's going in 'downstairs', that's all.

I think, I'll leave it at that. Feel free to respond but if I don't, it's not because you don't make interesting points but mainly because I don't want to end up in a back-and-forth.
I don't want to carry on with this but I will add it seems you misunderstood my concerns about your usage of the word "invalid". All opinions are valid because they aren't right or wrong, so to say otherwise is totally dismissing it. My point was that you're free to disagree with me, but please don't invalidate my opinion. You could've just said that it doesn't make sense, or isn't comparable, or whatever. I haven't invalidated your opinion so there's not a need to do so to mine.
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  #74  
Old 12-23-2019, 05:34 PM
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I'm starting to understand why K.W-A and Q.Maxima want to keep their daughters out of the media until they're adults
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Old 12-23-2019, 05:37 PM
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I'm starting to understand why K.W-A and Q.Maxima want to keep their daughters out of the media until they're adults
I really didn't mean to cause such a disruption to the thread. I merely stated my opinion, which is clearly unpopular but there's no need to belittle me. I'll bow out now. It seems that the forums have become much more sensitive than they used to be.

So this is over and done with and that nobody hates me; can I please state that I'm not criticising Amalia? For the thousandth time. It's the action itself, which details I won't go into again for fear of my head exploding.
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