The Princess of Orange, Pss Alexia and Pss Ariane, News Part 2 (Feb 2019 -Dec 2021)

[Somebody]

The allowance isn't officially postponed as that is not an option. She has however indicated that will return both the income (until she graduates from university) and the expense allowance (as long as her expenses in the function of Princess of Orange are limited).

 

[lucien]

She doesn't need much advice on this,she is bright enough,and sensible enough herself.Bravo Amalia.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The allowance isn't officially postponed as that is not an option. She has however indicated that will return both the income (until she graduates from university) and the expense allowance (as long as her expenses in the function of Princess of Orange are limited).

I know, her offer to return the income is what I meant. I am under the impression that this concession was not offered during the previous debates on the allowance, is that correct?

 

[Muhler]

Which of course also means that she can hardly be criticized for having limited public appearances.
It goes both ways. Something those who are fond of "what do we get for the apanage" arguments usually fail to realize.

No apanage, no show.

 

[Denville]

but she's not going to be doing engagements, is she if she's studying?

 

[Muhler]

I would say a normal (and IMO) sensible approach would be for her to have various engagements both solo and with her parents, domestically and internationally while studying. - For at least giving her some experience.
After all, when will her studies be completed? When she is 26 or so? In reality probably older.

So when the detractors come - and they will - saying: Where is Amalia?!? She really should blah-blah!! The answer will be: No apanage, no obligation. No pay, no work. That's what you wanted, wasn't it?

Personally I don't think Amalia should return her apanage. Nor do I think it's a good idea to bow to (some) public and political pressure regarding the apanage.

- Because Amalia is working!
She is currently an apprentice in the business called The Netherlands, on a life-time contract, learning the trade. And apprentices are usually paid.
Apprentices are long term investments, who in periods spend time at trade-school.

Giving in, which I believe is the case her, is at best a futile gesture, because the detractors will never be pleased. So stop trying to please them.
It boils down to: How do you measure the work of the royals?
The answer is: You can't.
Because there is no finite answer.

So giving in to public pressure will only encourage the detractors to demand more. - Lend the Devil a little-finger and he'll take the whole arm.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

A very wise decision given the poor poll ratings of the Dutch RF over the past year.

"Poor poll ratings" is quite an overstatement. The royal couple enjoyed alltime highs since 2013 and experienced a serious bump in "Trust in the royal couple" but are now growing again. Any politician would do a murder for their "poor poll ratings" in 2020.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I would say a normal (and IMO) sensible approach would be for her to have various engagements both solo and with her parents, domestically and internationally while studying. - For at least giving her some experience.
After all, when will her studies be completed? When she is 26 or so? In reality probably older.

So when the detractors come - and they will - saying: Where is Amalia?!? She really should blah-blah!! The answer will be: No apanage, no obligation. No pay, no work. That's what you wanted, wasn't it?

Personally I don't think Amalia should return her apanage. Nor do I think it's a good idea to bow to (some) public and political pressure regarding the apanage.

- Because Amalia is working!
She is currently an apprentice in the business called The Netherlands, on a life-time contract, learning the trade. And apprentices are usually paid.
Apprentices are long term investments, who in periods spend time at trade-school.

Giving in, which I believe is the case her, is at best a futile gesture, because the detractors will never be pleased. So stop trying to please them.
It boils down to: How do you measure the work of the royals?
The answer is: You can't.
Because there is no finite answer.

So giving in to public pressure will only encourage the detractors to demand more. - Lend the Devil a little-finger and he'll take the whole arm.

The Princess can not refuse an apanage because it is the law which says an adult heir to the throne receives an annual apanage. The Princess keeps that system intact but returns the amount to the State.

And she has stated that she will use the re-imbursement component for functional costs when she will be confronted with large expenses as Princess of Orange. For an example, she wants to employ an own particulier secretary.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

but she's not going to be doing engagements, is she if she's studying?

No indeed. But she will use the re-imbursement component of her apanage when confronted with large expenses in her role as Princess of Orange. Her annual personal income is some 300.000 euro, her annual re-imbursement budget is 1.300.000 euro.

 

[Somebody]

Amalia will be 18 when she starts university studies and her Bachelor degree will take 3 years (if she is doing lots of things on the side probably 4 years); and I wouldn't be surprised if she'd do her master abroad (another 1-2) years. So, at the earliest she is done at age 22; and at the latest 24. Any other course/preparation work (probably except for military training but I'm not sure she will undertake that) will be most likely in addition to royal tasks.

Willem-Alexander first did his military service and long study periods were still acceptable/the norm at the time - so he was a bit older before he started, that is no longer the case. So, I don't expect Amalia to take that much time for her university studies (1 additional year probably but that's about it).

 

[Prinsara]

Since you generally look better giving money back than taking it, I think this is a very sensible decision on Amalia's (or TPTB) part. Seeming entitled is about the last thing her family (or Amalia herself) wants right now. It's always better to look modest and build goodwill which can be used later. It will help her more in the future than using the money currently would.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I know, her offer to return the income is what I meant. I am under the impression that this concession was not offered during the previous debates on the allowance, is that correct?

Yes because th State can not offer an annual apanage, vested by law, and then discussing she should return it. That would be most rude.

The law says:

The present King
The future King
The previous King

Receive an annual income from the State. That dogma remains intact.
The future King has now said she wil return the income as long as she does no duties (read: as long she is not finished with her education).

 

[An Ard Ri]

"Poor poll ratings" is quite an overstatement. The royal couple enjoyed alltime highs since 2013 and experienced a serious bump in "Trust in the royal couple" but are now growing again. Any politician would do a murder for their "poor poll ratings" in 2020.

That's what's often referred to as a Honeymoon period but that has passed. Had a politician taken that ill advised Greek Holiday last year I'd imagine they'd be out of office but lets not dwell on that scenario.

Hopefully we will see an improvement on kings day 2022.

 

[camelot23ca]

Which of course also means that she can hardly be criticized for having limited public appearances.
It goes both ways. Something those who are fond of "what do we get for the apanage" arguments usually fail to realize.

No apanage, no show.

I think that’s the point, though - Amalia and the RF know that her public appearances WILL be limited for several years while she finishes her education, so it makes no sense, from either a moral or a public opinion standpoint, to accept a substantial amount of money to do very limited work.

I don’t think asking her to show up at an engagement for a few hours every month or so to get experience that will serve her well in her future role is asking too much of her. Many of her peers will be doing substantially more unpaid work as part of their training for their eventual careers.

 

[Somebody]

Several Dutch royal watchers think it was Amalia's own idea/decision - which of course was discussed with her parents - but their guess is that the idea originated with Amalia (probably inspired by Elisabeth and/or peers who might have commented on it).

 

[camelot23ca]

Several Dutch royal watchers think it was Amalia's own idea/decision - which of course was discussed with her parents - but their guess is that the idea originated with Amalia (probably inspired by Elisabeth and/or peers who might have commented on it).

Her parents have probably been discussing it with her for awhile. I doubt WA and Maxima would want their 18 year old daughter to suddenly have access to that amount of money with no oversight or accountability.

 

[Heavs]

I think that’s the point, though - Amalia and the RF know that her public appearances WILL be limited for several years while she finishes her education, so it makes no sense, from either a moral or a public opinion standpoint, to accept a substantial amount of money to do very limited work.

I don’t think asking her to show up at an engagement for a few hours every month or so to get experience that will serve her well in her future role is asking too much of her. Many of her peers will be doing substantially more unpaid work as part of their training for their eventual careers.

Yes. She doesn't need it to fund an office or appropriate clothing, personal salary etc right now and doesn't intend to do anything more than very limited appearances whilst she is in full time education. If she was intending to try and do substantial appearances she probably would have accepted the money.

It seems very sensible both from a practical and PR stand point.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes because th State can not offer an annual apanage, vested by law, and then discussing she should return it. That would be most rude.

I clarified in the post you quoted that I was referring to the (changed) position of the royal family, not of the state. ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I clarified in the post you quoted that I was referring to the (changed) position of the royal family, not of the state. ?

The Royal House never made remarks on the financa other than that they fully respect the democratic process. For so far the Dutch politicians are utmost generous. Yes, populistic grumbing for the stage but when it is about approving the Budget for the Department of General Affairs (the Prime Minister' Office) -in which the Budget for the King is included- it is always a what we call "hammer piece" (practically unanimous, meaning a hit with the gavek and ready) in both Chambers of the States-General.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The letter of Princess Amalia to the Prime Minister:

June 11th, 2021

Your Excellency,
Most esteemed Mr Rutte,

Yesterday I received the news of the succesful passing for my final exams. After the Summer vacation I hope to take a "gap year" and then to continue my studies.

On December 7th 2021 I will become 18 years old, an age in which the law provides me an apanage: a part as an income and a part as reimbursement for costs.

This makes me uncomfortable as long as I can not do a service in return and other students feel a struggle, especially in this unsecure period of Corona.

That is why I will return the income until the end of my studies. I will also return the reimbursement for costs as long as I have no high expenses as Princess of Orange.

Hoping for your understanding,
With sincere greeting,

Amalia

The Prime Minister did respond he has "all understanding and had appreciation" for the Princess' considerations and: "I wish you a nice gap year and all wisdom in choosing a future study".

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

There was no other option for Amalia than to do what she just did unless she wanted to attract endless critizism and bad headlines, the last thing that her family and the institution need right now.
It's the right gesture, nothing more. Her family is super rich anyway and they are obviously very money-concious, but here they had to draw a line because the topic would not have gone away and damaged the image of the future Queen substantially.

 

[rominet09]

How right she has been !

 

[AC21091968]

The letter of Princess Amalia to the Prime Minister:

June 11th, 2021

Your Excellency,
Most esteemed Mr Rutte,

Yesterday I received the news of the succesful passing for my final exams. After the Summer vacation I hope to take a "gap year" and then to continue my studies.

On December 7th 2021 I will become 18 years old, an age in which the law provides me an apanage: a part as an income and a part as reimbursement for costs.

This makes me uncomfortable as long as I can not do a service in return and other students feel a struggle, especially in this unsecure period of Corona.

That is why I will return the income until the end of my studies. I will also return the reimbursement for costs as long as I have no high expenses as Princess of Orange.

Hoping for your understanding,
With sincere greeting,

Amalia

The Prime Minister did respond he has "all understanding and had appreciation" for the Princess' considerations and: "I wish you a nice gap year and all wisdom in choosing a future study".

I thought it was a very well written letter to the Prime Minister. The Princess of Orange did the right thing by not accepting the apanage.

 

[Denville]

I thought it was a very well written letter to the Prime Minister. The Princess of Orange did the right thing by not accepting the apanage.

I dont think she had much choice.....

 

[AC21091968]

I dont think she had much choice.....

True, if one considered the controversy last year with the family holiday and the public opinions. I was more focus on the letter. Yes, she probably had help in writing or even had someone writing on her behalf. Overall, the letter came across well in my opinion.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I dont think she had much choice.....

Of course she had. She could have kept the income like her father did, as he had to provide in his own housing (unlike other monarchies where the Heir is housed by the State).

The 300.000 euro personal income and the 1.300.000 euro for reimbursement of costs remain on the annual budget. It can not be stopped because the law enforces that the present King, the future King and the previous King receive an annual apanage.

Princess Amalia keeps that systematic completely intact. Every year she receives 1.600.000 Euro. But imagine her father falls ill and with 18 or 19 years she sees she has to become active, then she will use her apanage.

That is also what she says:
- as long as she has no service for the Royal House she will return the income (300.000 euro)
- as long as she has no major expenses as Princess of Orange, she will also not use the 1.3000.000 euro for reimbursements (leaving it completely open to her own interpretation)

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

True, if one considered the controversy last year with the family holiday and the public opinions. I was more focus on the letter. Yes, she probably had help in writing or even had someone writing on her behalf. Overall, the letter came across well in my opinion.

It was a handwritten writing by Princess Amalia herself, on paper from Huis ten Bosch:



https://cdn.nos.nl/image/2021/06/11/751188/1080x1080a.jpg


.

 

[Marengo]

As public opinion is held hostage by populism it was a wise and elegant decision and a decision that only she could make. Her parents could not renounce it for her as the constitution states that it is her money and she will be the one receiving it, not her parents.

But in the end I am not sure if it makes a difference. The discussion will start again when she is 25. Why should a 25 y/o receive such an income? What other 25 y/o people receive such an amount etc...

The reasoning used by the princess is hers and it is commendable. But again in a few years the same line of reasoning can be used, there will always be people in a worse situation than her, so why receive an income at 25, at 30 .. etc. ? 'Could that not be given to the nurses... ' as we have seen written on Dutch comment sections over and over again.

As for housing, the first years she can at least live in dreary Noordeinde. The best sollution -as was suggested by somebody here in an earlier dicussion about the subject- would be to build some ghastly new building on the Horsten estate. A small estate of her own she will not be able to afford unles she decides to settle in an agricultural area, far away from The Hague.

I would have preferred it if the matter would have been settled differently: the state takes on the obligation to find appropriate housing for the heiress while she renounced her income for a few years. But well, the initiative was hers and it was universally hailed by press and politics and hopefully it will make sure she builds up some credit with the population.

 

[camelot23ca]

As public opinion is held hostage by populism it was a wise and elegant decision and a decision that only she could make. Her parents could not renounce it for her as the constitution states that it is her money and she will be the one receiving it, not her parents.

But in the end I am not sure if it makes a difference. The discussion will start again when she is 25. Why should a 25 y/o receive such an income? What other 25 y/o people receive such an amount etc...

The reasoning used by the princess is hers and it is commendable. But again in a few years the same line of reasoning can be used, there will always be people in a worse situation than her, so why receive an income at 25, at 30 .. etc. ? 'Could that not be given to the nurses... ' as we have seen written on Dutch comment sections over and over again.

As for housing, the first years she can at least live in dreary Noordeinde. The best sollution -as was suggested by somebody here in an earlier dicussion about the subject- would be to build some ghastly new building on the Horsten estate. A small estate of her own she will not be able to afford unles she decides to settle in an agricultural area, far away from The Hague.

I would have preferred it if the matter would have been settled differently: the state takes on the obligation to find appropriate housing for the heiress while she renounced her income for a few years. But well, the initiative was hers and it was universally hailed by press and politics and hopefully it will make sure she builds up some credit with the population.

I think once she starts full time work and can demonstrate that the bulk of the funds are going toward setting up and maintaining the household she needs as a high profile and busy royal people may be more accepting. If Amalia took the money now people would say - understandably, I think - that giving an 18 year old full time student enough money to make her independently wealthy by the time she’s graduated is a frivolous use of taxpayer money. To me that’s not knee jerk populism.

I think the upcoming generation in most of the European royal houses will have to tread carefully. Members of the public want to think they’re getting their money’s worth from their royal families, to put it crassly. Are most royals overpaid if you look at the difficulty of their work and the time they spend at it? I don’t think the various royal courts want that question examined too closely, especially now that everyone will be dealing with the long term financial ramifications of COVID.

 

[kathia_sophia]

This article below says that Amalia went on a trip to Mallorca without her parents. It says she went with her friends as the first trip of her gap year. They went just for a few days only after finishing the exams.


https://www.mujerhoy.com/celebritie...lorca-vacaciones-polemica-20210616114920.html