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  #541  
Old 06-28-2019, 07:07 PM
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Several members of parliament are not amused that the queen had this meeting and did not discuss the UN report about the crown prince involvement in the murder of mr. Khashoggi (this was confirmed by the RVD) - and are surprised that nobody advised against it/that it was approved. See this article on NOS (the Dutch BBC).
The politically responsible Prime Minister was is Osaka and all participants posed for a group photo with the Crown Prince included. Let us say: real life is not the Place Of Perfection the Binnenhof (Inner Court, the Houses of Parliament) mistakes it for.
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  #542  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:18 AM
eya eya is offline
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Queen Maxima attend an event on women's empowerment during the G20 Summit in Osaka on 29 June

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...24?s=2048x2048

https://www.anpfoto.nl/search.pp?eventid=5070900
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  #543  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:43 AM
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I also found the photo of the Queen with a known murderer rather surprising.

I understand what you say Duc: in international politics you are bound to have to deal with people with dirty hands, including dictators and murderers. But I see no reason why we have to drag the queen down into the filth with these kind of people.

I suppose she must have met with the CP to convince him of the impact of micro finance. I can imagine a normal UN envoy meeting the Crown Prince. But HM is not a normal diplomat. She is not a politician. She is the Queen of The Netherlands. The Queen of The Netherlands should not be photographed cosying up to & thus legitimizing murderers and dictators.

This meeting was very ill advised done with complete disregard for HM role as our Queen. As her work for the UN is now hampering her most important role perhaps it is time to drop the UN function.
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  #544  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:48 AM
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I also found the photo of the Queen with a known murderer rather surprising.

I understand what you say Duc: in international politics you are bound to have to deal with people with dirty hands, including dictators and murderers. But I see no reason why we have to drag the queen down into the filth with these kind of people.

I suppose she must have met with the CP to convince him of the impact of micro finance. I can imagine a normal UN envoy meeting the Crown Prince. But HM is not a normal diplomat. She is not a politician. She is the Queen of The Netherlands. The Queen of The Netherlands should not be photographed cosying up to & thus legitimizing murderers and dictators.

This meeting was very ill advised done with complete disregard for HM role as our Queen. As her work for the UN is now hampering her most important role perhaps it is time to drop the UN function.
It was an international summit, and the "people with dirty hands" were there as representatives of a sovereign nation. As Queen, Maxima really does not have a choice. Rutte, the Dutch PM, was there to deliver the political messages, but Maxima has to stay above it all, which I am sure she did.
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  #545  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:55 AM
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Indeed, you are bound to meet people with dirty hands at these summits. But HM & the government had the choice to keep HM in The Hague. No other Western royal attends the G20. No Dutch royal has done it before Queen Máxima did. AFAIK no other member of a reigning Western royal family has been pictured with the CP of SA after it became known that he ordered the murder of that Washington Post journalist.

It is really surprising that nobody at the court or at the prime minister's office ever pushed the stop button.

As I said I understand that she wanted to discuss micro finance. But her first responsibility is to be Queen of the Netherlands. The UN-ambassadorship is just a side show (bezigheidstherapie) and the two roles obviously clashed at this meeting.
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  #546  
Old 06-29-2019, 03:02 AM
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Indeed, you are bound to meet people with dirty hands at these summits. But HM & the government had the choice to keep HM in The Hague. No other Western royal attends the G20. No Dutch royal has done it before Queen Máxima did. AFAIK no other member of a reigning Western royal family has been pictured with the CP of SA after it became known that he ordered the murder of that Washington Post journalist.
All good points, and neither one that I can disgaree with
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  #547  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:08 AM
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We can say the same about meeting Putin (MH17, Skripal, dozens of journalists), about Xi Ping (trampling democracy in Hong Kong), about Erdogan (wiping his derrière with human rights), and all were in Osaka anyway.
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  #548  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:26 AM
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Marengo, why do you think that Prime Minister Rutte allows this? What opinion do you think the Dutch have in general? Because I believe that the activity that the Dutch government allows Máxima, in any other European parliamentary monarchy would provoke a lot of criticism for the Monarchy and the government.

First, that Queen Máxima bases half of her agenda as Special Envoy of the UN. There are numerous members of the royalty who are ambassadors of United Nations agencies, and who collaborate with them through the cooperation agencies of their countries (as we have seen these days with Mathilde and UNICEF)... but Máxima's is a more executive role, more of a UN employee. What role does the Dutch State have in that? Who pays all her trips? What do the Dutch think that Máxima works more for the UN than for her country? Apart from financial issues, is there no social pressure for her to become more involved in internal social issues in the country?

Second, why does the government allow the queen consort to participate in events that are fundamentally political? Why do they use her role in the UN to allow it? A few months ago, Prince Haakon received strong criticism in his country for his political opinions. In general, the parliamentary monarchies seek to establish a line so as not to be too involved in political issues ... however Maxima seems increasingly involved in a role that is that of a government minister, not that of a queen consort. Maxima have an international role much more active and political than the Head of State ... and that is surprising.
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  #549  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:37 AM
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Yes the Prime Minister allows it. Even more: he was with the Queen in Osaka.

Recently there was a survey and the overwhelming response was that Queen Máxima must be able to be involved in the causes of her heart, which are inclusive finances and equal chances for women, all over the world.

In general the Dutch prefer to see their royals have meanig in the real world as much as possible. After all the monarchy operates in the reality, not in a sugarcake Disneyland.

The costs made for the Queen in her role as ambassador are paid for by the UN. But as she remains Queen of course, the Dutch Government pays for the addidtional costs the UN would not have had to make, was it not a royal member, so to say.

That mainly means the personal security and the use of the worldwide Dutch diplomatic infrastructure (read: the local Embassy provide all services the Queen needs). These costs are covered by the regular budgets of the diplomatic service. In a country where there are annual Budget Surpluses, these costs barely cause a stir in the sea of plenty, which is the State Budget.

https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/onderw...lusive-finance

Third engagement with the Crown Prince, after a bilateral and a diner:
https://discover.operacdn.com/assets...de3ecf45b64392

With Donald and Ivanka Trump : https://twitter.com/iina_surbakti/st...42147947900929
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  #550  
Old 06-29-2019, 05:55 AM
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She can support "causes close to her heart" without having to play such a political role. Many royals work in the real world, but many times the real world is close to the palace, or collaborating with causes abandoned by many ... and not in the encounters of rich and powerful, where many times they promises a lot and little is done.

Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Salman ... supporting the empowerment of women, with the wife of a millionaire king and the daughter of a millionaire president ... it's a little Disneyland.

The words of Princess Elisabeth about girls in Kenya, or Daniel and Haakon with their children in the Women's Soccer World Cup ... are much more discreet, but have for me a more powerful message of equality and are more real.
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  #551  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
She can support "causes close to her heart" without having to play such a political role. Many royals work in the real world, but many times the real world is close to the palace, or collaborating with causes abandoned by many ... and not in the encounters of rich and powerful, where many times they promises a lot and little is done.

Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Salman ... supporting the empowerment of women, with the wife of a millionaire king and the daughter of a millionaire president ... it's a little Disneyland.

The words of Princess Elisabeth about girls in Kenya, or Daniel and Haakon with their children in the Women's Soccer World Cup ... are much more discreet, but have for me a more powerful message of equality and are more real.
As Prince of Orange, the King has flown for AMREF (the Flying Doctors) in Africa. Via the Orange Fund (with 250 million Euro in cash!) the Queen has an unstoppable string of engagements of projects in which the Orange Fund contributes.

Máxima is Máxima. Was she no Queen, she probably would have been a politician in Argentina, like her father. She has a formidable network worldwide and is not the type of a Sweet Disney Princess.

It is in her personality to go wham! into business. And indeed: as long as she is speaking with the mouth of the Government, she is covered. That is how the Dutch system works. Royals do not need to be impartial. They need to be in tune with Government. That is something completely different than impartiality.
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  #552  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
As Prince of Orange, the King has flown for AMREF (the Flying Doctors) in Africa. Via the Orange Fund (with 250 million Euro in cash!) the Queen has an unstoppable string of engagements of projects in which the Orange Fund contributes.

Máxima is Máxima. Was she no Queen, she probably would have been a politician in Argentina, like her father. She has a formidable network worldwide and is not the type of a Sweet Disney Princess.

It is in her personality to go wham! into business. And indeed: as long as she is speaking with the mouth of the Government, she is covered. That is how the Dutch system works. Royals do not need to be impartial. They need to be in tune with Government. That is something completely different than impartiality.

We all know her family background. And yes, she came from a family of politicians.

I'm just wondering is the Dutch system you are saying have some sources. Has this something to do with Prince Claus?

I remember Prince Claus before was too vocal and apparently the restrictions that Dutch law imposed on the Royal Family's freedom of speech and action was gradually loosened. He even became a senior staff member at the Department of Developing Aid.
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  #553  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:50 AM
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I work for a Dutch company in Germany, many of my colleagues are Dutch. Whenever the topic is on Maxima and her unusually extended role in comparison to her counterparts in Europe I get one answer why this is the case: Because she is capable! So the Dutch people I speak to, no matter of age or gender, do not only agree but also support the role of Maxima as it is, even though it might interfere with politics. They see her as Queen but also as kind of diplomat on whatever mission is useful for the country. Maybe a serious blunder has to happen that people start changing their minds but so far the Dutch embrace whatever Maxima is doing.
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  #554  
Old 06-30-2019, 11:24 AM
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"I stand for 100% behind Queen Máxima"

According to Prime Minister Rutte, the meeting between Queen Máxima and the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was "completely defensible".

The Queen spoke to the controversial Crown Prince about improving the economic position of women in Saudi Arabia, but not about the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

Prime Minister Rutte named this "a completely normal state of affairs". According the Prime Minister, it is common for UN-representatives, such as Queen Máxima, only to talk about their topics, in this case financial services and the economic position of women.

Queen Máxima has been committed to this for years. "Suppose the representatives of the UN first have to mention all other UN-topics before they come to their own," said Rutte. "That would be strange."

Prime Minister Rutte stressed there are coordinated contacts between countries on the murder of Khashoggi. "The Netherlands have already expressed its total abhorrence about that." That feeling is well known in Saudi Arabia. "And Queen Máxima was not there for The Netherlands, but did what she had to do as a special advocate of the UN Secretary General."

A report from the same UN last week showed that there is evidence for involvement of the Saudi Crown Prince in the murder of Khashoggi. The UN rapporteur for on this, therefore, strongly criticized Queen Máxima. But Prime Minister Rutte was not at all impressed. He said: "The Queen did exactly what she had to do." He called her "one of the smartest persons I know".

G20
Queen Máxima spoke with the Saudi Crown Prince on Friday at the G20 summit in Japan. The Queen was present at that summit as a special UN advocate for inclusive finances. The conversation with the Crown Prince was in preparation for the next G20, which will be organized in Saudi Arabia.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2291349-rutte...roonprins.html
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  #555  
Old 06-30-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
She can support "causes close to her heart" without having to play such a political role. Many royals work in the real world, but many times the real world is close to the palace, or collaborating with causes abandoned by many ... and not in the encounters of rich and powerful, where many times they promises a lot and little is done.

Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Salman ... supporting the empowerment of women, with the wife of a millionaire king and the daughter of a millionaire president ... it's a little Disneyland.

The words of Princess Elisabeth about girls in Kenya, or Daniel and Haakon with their children in the Women's Soccer World Cup ... are much more discreet, but have for me a more powerful message of equality and are more real.
Totally agree. What this lady does is an interference in a world of totally SCANDALOUS and unusual politics. This is a scandal and not other nonsense. If we add the great ambition of this lady, the expenses without measure (his Greek mansion, 62 million euros of the remodeling of his palace etc), gives me a lousy image of a CONSORTIUM Nobody asks where is the king and because this lady constantly passes the limits assigned to her by her position? The answer "porqeu Máxima can" is a joke. Masako can ... and much more than Máxima since she was a career diplomat and will never do it because they got married and got a status. Letizia could, and much, but she does not because, logically, she would be seen in Spain as an interference in the affairs of the country without being even a titular queen ... If the answer is that, they will forgive everything she does Maximum, mine will be that in a while you may have a much bigger problem. For me, this lady is ambitious and does not stop even her husband to look for her photo and power ... If he does not even let his daughters talk!
Máxima pursues the photo, married to gain power and is now in a race to the absurd Do not you see the reverence that makes Trump? jajajaajja ... Surely the Dutch are delighted with this humiliation
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  #556  
Old 06-30-2019, 01:01 PM
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Actually, if the Dutch want this, it is what they deserve. Sorry. Time will speak but it is a great pity.
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  #557  
Old 06-30-2019, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
As Prince of Orange, the King has flown for AMREF (the Flying Doctors) in Africa. Via the Orange Fund (with 250 million Euro in cash!)

Máxima is Máxima. Was she no Queen, she probably would have been a politician in Argentina, like her father. She has a formidable network worldwide and is not the type of a Sweet Disney Princess.

It is in her personality to go wham! into business. And indeed: as long as she is speaking with the mouth of the Government, she is covered. That is how the Dutch system works. Royals do not need to be impartial. They need to be in tune with Government. That is something completely different than impartiality.
804/5000
Oh my God. This statement is terrible, because removing the political past from his father does not do Máxima any favor, but quite the opposite. In the end he may look more like the father, minister of a dictatorship, than we thought.
Try to help see it as a great policy and die laughing. If she wanted to be a politician, she could have stayed in Argentina and see if another dictatorship would come, but not marry to be queen and relegate her husband to "zero".
The monarchy and politics, especially the consorts, have to be separated by a very broad line, and Máxima has passed all possible limits already.
This is the problem when a person is from a republic and has no idea of the operation of monarchies, but the worst are those of the country that consent.
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  #558  
Old 06-30-2019, 03:39 PM
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Agnes Callamard, a United Nations Special Rapporteur criticizes Q Máxima over meeting with Saudi Crown Prince

United Nations Special Rapporteur criticizes Queen Máxima over meeting with Saudi Crown Prince – Royal Central
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  #559  
Old 06-30-2019, 05:05 PM
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In Osaka, I think that Queen Maxima was wrong to speak to the Saudi Arabian Crown Prince. Could she not have spoken to someone else in the Saudi Arabian delegation?
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  #560  
Old 06-30-2019, 06:13 PM
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In Osaka, I think that Queen Maxima was wrong to speak to the Saudi Arabian Crown Prince. Could she not have spoken to someone else in the Saudi Arabian delegation?
When the Argentineans were to take over the presidency of the G20, Queen Máxima met President Macri, the leader of the Argentinean delegation.

When the Japanese were to take over the presidency of the G20, Queen Máxima met Prime Minister Abe, the leader of the Japanese delegation.

Now the Saudis are taking over the presidency of the G20, Queen Máxima met the Crown Prince, the leader of the Saudi delegation.

No more, no less.
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