Máxima's Protocol and Etiquette Education

[ashelen]

lillytornado, you are right, she had a bunch of tutors I bet

[Marengo]

Well, considering she had HRH Princess Christina as a sort of tutor, I assume it can´t get much better .

The only other two that I know of are Prof. Victor Halberstadt and Andree van Es, former leader of the Green-Left party. I believe Voktor Halberstadt, his daughter Jutka (journalist of the Volkskrant) and Maxima were once ´caught´ by the press in cafe Tabac in Amsterdam where he was explaining some things about The Netherlands to her. They left the cafe after two hours when they were ´caught´ by Yoeri Albrecht , also a journalist (of Vrij Nederland) and a coinsidently a friend/acquantence of Prince Constantijn. Maxima was taught Dutch by Hanny Veenendaal, already back in 1999 when both were living in New York.

[ashelen]

yes, I bet it was fun too,of course if you like etiquette and protocoll, Wish I could have it myself, I would love to learn all that, I read a lot about it but of course it is not enough, my mother learn from her mother - in -law , my grandmother, who tought her a lot about table etiquette from the old days , I wonder is it change something???

[Marengo]

Well the basic principle of etiquette remains the same through the centuries: making sure that other people feel comfortable and do not get embarrased.
I assume tablemanners stayed the same too, though they probably have less courses now than they had 100 years ago and these days I would be surprised if all the guests have to stop eating as soon as Beatrix has had enough. In Wilhelmina´s days it was rather normal for the guests to still be hungry after a dinner at the palace and they usually had to go to a restaurant afterwards (Wilhelmina was a quick eater, and esp. if one considers that the guests get their meal served after the Queen...there wasn´t much time left in which they could fill their stomach).

[ashelen]

Marengo, thank you so much for this explanation , I did not know about everybody had to stop to eat when the queen stop to eat, what i wonder is, all this royals dinners, state dinners or only between the royals, is very important the conversation I presume howy ou can handle eat and have a good conversation without eating too much or too quick or talking too much, how to handle that, specially when you are holding a tiara on your head???

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Aquarela

you mentioned that maxima lived in nyc and because of her good job there, it is an absolute must to have a high degree of,well,education. Well i know north-americans are they are quite informal. they dont care about royal or aristocratic etiquette. Maxima has a good job but she was not the president of deutsch bank, she had a good carreer just like many women have. This don't make them the top of the top in education.

i think maxima is a well educated woman, maybe she should pay attention to her outfits and to her hair (you learn this in private schools ). sometimes i think she is going to perform in a circus. I don't see much difference about her and other royal princesses in what concerns to education. none of them ever made huge faux-pas during these years... maybe mette-marit did some few mistakes but she's perfect now. Mathilde is, imo, the one who has education and good manners in her blood and mind since ever. all the others had to learn protocol and etiquette, and they did it pretty well.

That sums it up in my opinion: there isn't really, in all honesty, that much to the job, after all. Any person with interest in other humans and good conversational and listening skills, and a bit of all-round interests, can do a <moderately> good job at it. Look at Mary; not the most interesting conversationalist, from all accounts, if I may believe them. But she pulls it off. Now, being Chairman of, say, General Motors, now <that's> the kind of gig we all here should admire!

Originally Posted by Aquarela

ashelen i quite understand you. i am blond and when i arrive to europe people ask me where did i came from. when i said from argentina they all asked 'but you have british or german family right?'

LOL so much for us educated Europeans! Always love it when Europeans think they're so cultured and educated, but when it comes down to it..

[Empress]

Well, to be honest, the higher you are the harder you fall. Whats more by the time that you get to be the chairman of general motors or any other furtune 500 company, you basically are a manager, and are managing the people that do all of the actual work. In that position, its a bit like a princess and her patronages. You are lending your name and prestige as the figurehead of an organization so that the shareholders have someone to "trust" and rely upon and to dump on when things go wrong. You'll note that the first person to go in any bad situation in a fortune 500 company is the Preident/Chairman/CEO.

Look at Citibank, NewellRubbermaid, Daimler Chrysler, etc. At that point in your career, there's not alot of actual work... Just decision making (although that is work as well) but even those decisions can be overruled by the board or stockholders. I can respect that they worked hard to get to the position, if indeed they did, but not what they do in the position, because it's simply not that much.

[ashelen]

She had to have some trainning in speaking in public, I was surfing in the internet and it is so many courses, and books, videos, etc.... but how to know which one is good, she had to have training for this speacially speaking in public in dutch, this is difficult enough in your own language, it must be harder in another language, i must say i admire her for this!

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Well the basic principle of etiquette remains the same through the centuries: making sure that other people feel comfortable and do not get embarrased.
I assume tablemanners stayed the same too, though they probably have less courses now than they had 100 years ago and these days I would be surprised if all the guests have to stop eating as soon as Beatrix has had enough. In Wilhelmina´s days it was rather normal for the guests to still be hungry after a dinner at the palace and they usually had to go to a restaurant afterwards (Wilhelmina was a quick eater, and esp. if one considers that the guests get their meal served after the Queen...there wasn´t much time left in which they could fill their stomach).

There were some other etiquette rules weren't there? But it was more the etiquette of what to do in the presence of a monarch or higher up royal-not the rules for acting as a princess.

For example, the rule of never turning one's back on the monarch or higher up royal and never sitting down in the presence of a standing monarch or higher up royal. And then there was the rule of never initiating a conversation with a higher up royal or a monarch. I imagine if these rules are still in force that Maxima would have to be trained how to recognize these behaviors so she doesn't make someone unwittingly uncomfortable by standing all the time or never starting a conversation. Or eating too fast.

[giov]

Originally Posted by ysbel

For example, the rule of never turning one's back on the monarch or higher up royal and never sitting down in the presence of a standing monarch or higher up royal

These rules aren't only for Monarch or Royal families!
This are very good manners everybody should have in the presence of any important person, gramothers, ladies, rtc.
These are basic rules, everibody knows it.
I hope Maxima knows them since she was a child, like everybody should!

[Empress]

Well, if I understand it correctly, Maxima went to the nuns for her language training.

[susan alicia]

BBC - BBC ONE - Listings

Funny you should mention this, was watching a programme last night on bbc 1 about the british royal familie and at a state banquet at the white house president bush and the queen toast and he sits down a full 10 seconds before she does . I read somewhere that he acts the country bumpkin because that appeals to a lot of americans but this is just not cool behaviour, as the son of a former president you would think he had picked up manners along the way

Originally Posted by giov

These rules aren't only for Monarch or Royal families!
This are very good manners everybody should have in the presence of any important person, gramothers, ladies, rtc.
These are basic rules, everibody knows it.
I hope Maxima knows them since she was a child, like everybody should!

[Verde Esmeralda]

Originally Posted by dazzling

I dont see where eating with hands mix's with etiquette during a private lunch/snack time or at a non-formal event.

I mean, come on, this was not a formal or public event. Looks like she was eating finger food. also notice the lady next to her using her hands. If Maxima was to eat french fries, do you really expect her to use a fork

I agree to dazzling, there's nothing to say about her manners in this case, IMHO. Though I particularly don't like it when people chew their fingers (I prefer napkins ) this is not really a sign of bad manners from Maxima.

[giov]

Originally Posted by Verde Esmeralda

I agree to dazzling, there's nothing to say about her manners in this case, IMHO. Though I particularly don't like it when people chew their fingers (I prefer napkins ) this is not really a sign of bad manners from Maxima.

I agree with you!
Eating with hands only finger foods in a private lunch isn't that bad, but licking one's fingers while eating, like Maxima did, IMO, is very very rude, both in public and private.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by giov

These rules aren't only for Monarch or Royal families!
This are very good manners everybody should have in the presence of any important person, gramothers, ladies, rtc.
These are basic rules, everibody knows it.
I hope Maxima knows them since she was a child, like everybody should!

So you normally walk backwards to leave a room when someone more important is there?

That's basically the royal protocol but its not the normal practice among polite society that I have seen.

[susan alicia]

, very funny Ysbel

Originally Posted by ysbel

So you normally walk backwards to leave a room when someone more important is there?

That's basically the royal protocol but its not the normal practice among polite society that I have seen.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by ysbel

So you normally walk backwards to leave a room when someone more important is there?

That's basically the royal protocol but its not the normal practice among polite society that I have seen.

I think giov was not talking when people walk to leave a room. If you are talking with a monarch or some royal, (or with your grandmother) and if you see a good friend of yours arriving to the party (just to give an example), it is rude turning yours back on the monarch/royal to talk with your friend.

[Regina]

Originally Posted by Verde Esmeralda

I agree to dazzling, there's nothing to say about her manners in this case, IMHO. Though I particularly don't like it when people chew their fingers (I prefer napkins ) this is not really a sign of bad manners from Maxima.

I don't like to see people licking their fingers too. But there are worst things to do like making loud eating noises... picking teeth... or when people stretch across the table crossing others to reach the wine... Until I see Máxima do this kind of things, I will continue to find her a well educated lady.

[giov]

Originally Posted by ysbel

So you normally walk backwards to leave a room when someone more important is there?

That's basically the royal protocol but its not the normal practice among polite society that I have seen.

You understood exactly what I meant. Well, I hope so. I don't understand your irony.
Regina understood perfectly what I meant.
Anyways I am still surprised that you consider " never sitting down in the presence of a standing monarch or higher up royal" a strange rule, while it is only a basic rule for everybody. I thought everybody knew it, but I was obviously wrong.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by giov

You understood exactly what I meant. Well, I hope so.
Regina understood perfectly what I meant.
Anyways I am still surprised that you consider " never sitting down in the presence of a standing monarch or higher up royal" a strange rule, while it is only a basic rule for everybody. I thought everybody knew it, but I was obviously wrong.

Well I think its common courtesy to stand up when important people come into a room but if I'm at my company Christmas party with the Chairman of the Board, I will stand up to greet him but I think its a bit excessive for the whole company attending to remain standing if he decides not to sit down for the entire evening but if he were royal, that's what everybody would do. When the royal sits, everybody can sit, but when the royal stands up for whatever reason, everybody must stop what they're doing and immediately stand even if the royal is just straightening their skirt.

Princess Margaret once made that mistake at a party she attended. She never sat down for the whole evening and because she was royal, no one in the party could sit down for the whole evening. It was incredibly uncomfortable for everyone and so people stopped inviting her to parties.

It is these royal nuances that I don't believe are common to people not associated with royals.