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  #41  
Old 03-22-2008, 11:21 PM
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Did Prince Claus have an accent in his Dutch?
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  #42  
Old 03-26-2012, 02:21 AM
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I like her red dress,it's very pretty.
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  #43  
Old 03-29-2014, 03:43 PM
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Tomorrow, thirteen years ago...
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  #44  
Old 03-29-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilytornado View Post
Did Prince Claus have an accent in his Dutch?
He spoke dutch very well, but always with hint of a german accent..
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  #45  
Old 09-10-2020, 06:39 AM
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Engagement of Prince Willem-Alexander and Máxima Zorreguieta: 30 March 2001

The couple announced their engagement on 30 March 2001; Máxima addressed the nation in Dutch (which at the time she only spoke to basic conversational extent) during the live televised broadcast. Máxima was granted Dutch citizenship by a royal decree on 17 May 2001 and now has dual citizenship: Argentine and Dutch. The engagement was formally approved by the States General later that year—a necessary step for Willem-Alexander to remain in line to the throne.



Photos:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VCGCHlV7_...engagement.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--gfMaSJh9...P56cMFqVAy.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-feH8pBtxa...378115-014.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7HutCU52o...378115-017.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ghW3lABzn...8077349178.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cSTXs-CJ1...Q/s1600/B8.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-X0GlpQDGO...engagement.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pX8p-JQs_...conference.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-VZ9SfrryO...25281%2529.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-I96yIstXs...her1967-19.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FZZblBOqc...-1024x1024.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BODDEJZhP...m52to1_540.jpg

After the press conference, the couple left the palace to greet the people who gathered on the street.



https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PA2lDtGkQ...378115-001.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6lTQtLO84...378115-002.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7Sh5NtjBs...378115-003.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n4WoSiOyC...25281%2529.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kR8-1R1si...378115-005.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KAJwZbIQ-...378115-006.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Fm9zE9-DK...378115-008.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-dTb2KBd8Z...378115-009.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GZR9KF9So...her1967-20.jpg
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  #46  
Old 09-10-2020, 06:45 AM
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Queen Beatrix announces - in the presence of Prince Claus - the engagement of the Prince of Orange and Máxima Zorreguieta.

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  #47  
Old 09-10-2020, 08:39 AM
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The engagement remains most famous for Máxima's words "Je was een beetje dom" ("You were a little stupid") referencing her future husband's actions regarding his comments on Videla's letter.
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  #48  
Old 09-10-2020, 08:48 AM
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who is Videla and why was Willem stupid?
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  #49  
Old 09-10-2020, 09:00 AM
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General Jorge Videla was a former Argentinian dictator who was responsible for the murder of 7000-8000 Argentinians. Máxima's father had served this dictatorship for some years as under-minister for Agriculture.

During a visit to Boston the then Prince of Orange told members of the Dutch press about a letter that was published in the Argentinian newspaper 'La Nación' in March 2001. He talked about 'an open source' that would help to get a full view what happened in Argentina in the years of the dictatorship.

Dutch journalists did their work, read the letter and to their astonishment noticed that the letter -which defended the dictatorship against a new book that was published, called 'El Dictador'- was signed by Jorge Videla himself.

The Prime Minister [Wim Kok] was livid. He telephoned the Crown Prince in the United States - who due to the time difference was woken up in the middle of the night. In a public statement the prime minister said that 'the crown prince would better have overcome his urge to make personal statements on this matter'. The Prime minister told the crown prince that he was expected to keep his silence concerning the history of Máxima's father. In parliament the PM emphasized that the remarks of the prince did not meant that the prince agreed with the content of the letter but merely pointed emphasized the need for broad orientation on the matter.

The PM was praised for his quick reaction, as this could have grown into a more serious issue. All parties in parliament disapproved of the remarks of the crown prince but agreed that the PM had solved the issue sufficiently with his humiliating public reprimand. In general the prime minister's competent brinkmanship in handling the situation around Máxima's father is credited for preventing a constitutional crisis where parliament might have voted against the wedding of the prince and Máxima.

Two months later the engagement was announced. The RVD (Government information service) knew that there would be questions from journalists on the matter. The crown prince and Máxima prepared for the press conference in Scheveningen. Together it was decided to let Máxima say 'he was a bit silly' when the question would pop up.

When the question popped up during the press conference you can see the crown prince giving Máxima a little cue (unknown at the time but explained much later) and she dully said 'he was a bit silly'. It became the most quoted remark of the press conference but it managed to turn around the situation completely and the country was charmed. According to a historian who was present at the press conference the temperature among the other journalists warmed up from 'an icy cold' to 'a great heat'.
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  #50  
Old 09-10-2020, 09:04 AM
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Thanks. yes it seems he was pretty stupid....
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  #51  
Old 09-10-2020, 02:37 PM
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Question and answer in Dutch:
Reporter: U heeft in New York een brief van Videla aangehaald in een interview. Premier Kok zei dat had u beter niet kunnen doen. Hoe kijkt u daar zelf op terug op dat incident?

Willem-Alexander: Dat had ik beter niet kunnen doen dat zegt u juist. Nee, dat was ehh... stom... hè? (kijkt naar Máxima)

Máxima: Je was een beetje dom. Je was een beetje dom. (gegiegel)

Translation:
Reporter: You quoted a letter from Videla in an interview in New York. Prime Minister Kok said you should not have done that. How do you look back on that incident yourself?

Willem-Alexander: I shouldn't have done that, that's correct. No, that was um ... dumb ... huh? (looking at Máxima)

Máxima: You were a bit stupid. You were a bit stupid. (giggle giggle)
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  #52  
Old 09-10-2020, 03:25 PM
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Poor Maxima. It was really hard for her. But she made this very well!
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  #53  
Old 10-21-2020, 09:07 AM
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i know i asked this before, but i wonder if a translation of the interview exists anywhere?
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  #54  
Old 10-21-2020, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i know i asked this before, but i wonder if a translation of the interview exists anywhere?
I'm not aware of a fully transcribed interview (which would be a requirement for translation) nor a video with subtitles in English.
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  #55  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:10 AM
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Marengo summarized a documentary which covers the controversial engagement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
On the occassion of the porcelein marriage of the King and Queen BNNVARA is broadcasting a 4-part documentary about the lead-up to the wedding.

The makers call it a 'political thriller' and a 'chess game'. It shows the political and diplomatic process before the wedding step by step.

Some tidbits:

- In August 1999 -only a few months after the two met in Seville- a report was made by the intelligence service about Máxima's father.

- On September 1st the Prime Minister Wim Kok was informed about the relationship.

- In September the PM discovers that there is a report. He angrily calls the Interior minister, Bram Peper. Peper should have informed the PM about the matter. However, Peper claims that he did not give an order for this investigation. So if neither the minister of Interior affairs nor the PM ordered it, who did? The royal house/ Queen? The Intelligence service acted on its own initiative?

- All alarm bells go off when it is clear Mr. Zorreguieta was part of the Videla dictatorship. Some describe it as 'panic'. It was clear tot he PM that a constitutional crisis would be an option as the prince had been clear several in an interview several years ago that he would chose love over throne.

- The PM's tactic at first was to give the country time to get used to the idea and let ministers and politicians of the government parties downplay the issue.

- This did not work when several public voices got involved. Among them the daily talk show Barend & van Dorp and former ambassador Maarten Mourik. What made matters even more complicated for the PM was that the loudest voices came from people affiliated with his own party.

- It is clear to the prime minister that a sacrifice must be made for the political class & public to accept this wedding, esp. as more and more details became known and images of shown of Zorreguieta next to Videla in a car during a parade.

- From Argentina Mr. Zorreguieta is in touch with a Dutch journalist and tries to convince him that he knew nothing. The line was: it was all very wrong what happened but I did not know. If the veneer would be scratched Mr. Zorreguieta would say things like 'they were no victims but terrorists'... Not something that would be acceptable to the Dutch government or public.

- To get all the facts in order the PM orders an investigation by Prof. Dr. Michiel baron Baud and asks minister of state Max van der Stoel to help. [Side note: Baud is the grandson of Mr. Jean Chrétien baron Baud, chamberlain of Q. Wilhelmina and private secretary of Queen Juliana).

- There were several tense meetings between the PM and the young couple or the PM, the prince and the Queen.

- Private notes of Max van der Stoel of a meeting on January 15th were shown. He talked about an emotional/angry prince, who does not yet realise what is going on. The notes mention that Queen Beatrix was shocked to hear that the presence of Mr. Z. would be unacceptable to the government, quickly realising the implications. WA wanted to go to Argentina to ask for the hand of Máxima. Something neither the PM nor Queen Beatrix think is a good idea.

- Four days later WA proposes to Máxima in The Hague. It adds (time) pressure on the process. As did Máxima's attendence of Queen Beatrix' birthday festivities a week later. Clearly things need to be resolved soon.

- Van der Stoel and the PM had to convince Queen Beatrix, the young couple and Mr. Z. that him staying away was the best option. Several meetings in the Catshuis between Van der Stoel and the couple were needed, where Máxima was emotional and often cried.

- Max van der Stoel, prof. Baud and a high ranking civil servant meet Z. and his wife in a hotel in New York. Z is charming but he does not agree with the conclusions of the report. Neither does he understand why the matter is sensitive in The Netherlands. He is worried about his social position in Argentina when he will agree not to attend the wedding. Privately he tells the Dutch journalist that the true story is not known in The Netherlands and that baron Baud is a communist.

- Some time later he is convinced to write a declaration. Translated into English by Máxima. Van der Stoel's copy is shown, with his corrections of Máxima's grammar and the highlighted parts which he found problematic.

- It led to a new meeting in São Paulo between Van der Stoel, the couple and Zorreguieta. The declaration was changed and it made it very clear that Mr. Z. would not attend the wedding 'by his own decision'. The son of Van der Stoel noted that the couple went back to the Netherlands by direct plane. But to avoid suspicion the 79 y/o Van der Stoel had to take a different flight & scale in Paris.

- At the same time a problem arose with a ruling of the court about a different issue. A few months earlier, the Amsterdam court ruled that president Desi Bouterse should be prosecuted for his part in the December murders in Suriname in 1982. The ruling was copied by lawyers by Van Mourik, who used the same argumentation to prosecute Zorreguieta in a Dutch court for crimes against humanity.

The head of the Public Prosecution Office, Jhr. Joan de Wijkerslooth de Weerdestein decided to submit a request to annul the decision to prosecute Bouterse a few days before the engagement was announced. It is suggested that he did so to protect the RF, though it is noted that the official reasoning was that the office did not think it would have the ability or capacity to prosecute all sorts of foreign criminals and dictators for crimes commited abroad, not involving Dutch citizens.

- In March the engagement was announced and a constitutional crisis was averted. It was highlighted that Mr. Z. chose not to attend the wedding. Both by the Prince of Orange and by the PM. This was nonsense. Mr. Z. told a Dutch journalist in private that he was not allowed to speak, neither was he allowed to attend.

---
Interviews with victims of the regime are followed by comments of WA and Máxima during their engagement interview. They seem naive at best. They follow the line of Mr. Z: it was all very terrible but he did not know what was going on. The official report by Prof. Baud was 'an opinion'. But this was not picked up by the media at the time, people were glad the saga came to an end and that there was a fairytale wedding on its way. Politicians highlighted that Máxima distanced herself from the Videla regime in strong words, that a daughter could not be blamed for the sins of the father etc.

The naivité of the couple is perhaps most painful when they show a clip of Mr. Z. attending [his only] public hearing in Argentina shortly after the wedding. It is about the disappearance of the daughter of a predecessor as underminister of Agriculture. The predecessor - Alberto Amigo - desperately asked Z -once according to Z.- for help, when Amigo's daughter Lidia is arrested and disappeared. A journalist notes that officials were approached by desperate parents all the time, as is stated by Z's other predecessor Mario Mandariaga. It is followed by a clip of the pre-wedding interview of the couple, where they say that Mr. Z. had no reason to lie and that both of them believed him. Lidia Amigo was never found.

---
The RF did not cooperate with the programme. Relations, friends and acquentences did not either, Neither did civil servants and obviously intelligence officers. Newspaper Trouw writes that with this silence the royal couple did not do themselves a favor.

https://www.npostart.nl/een-porselei...k/BV_101407116
https://www.bnnvara.nl/artikelen/een...einen-huwelijk

Did the possibility of the Prince of Orange marrying without the consent of Parliament and losing the throne ever become a plausible scenario during the crisis? His interview (prior to meeting his future wife?) about choosing love over the throne might suggest so, but would he or Parliament have acted on it when confronted with a very real crisis?
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  #56  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:22 AM
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I'm quite sure that the Prince of Orange would have acted on it if push had come to shove. Whether Parliament wouldn't have budged is a different question; my take is that they would have wanted to avoid that at (almost) all cost. Especially since it was not the bride herself that was that controversial but her father. The general feeling of the public -in my recollection- was that a daughter shouldn't be punished for her father's sins.
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  #57  
Old 02-03-2022, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Marengo summarized a documentary which covers the controversial engagement:




Did the possibility of the Prince of Orange marrying without the consent of Parliament and losing the throne ever become a plausible scenario during the crisis? His interview (prior to meeting his future wife?) about choosing love over the throne might suggest so, but would he or Parliament have acted on it when confronted with a very real crisis?

Yes it was real because an angered and fed-up Prince, totally on cloud nine and in love with Máxima, was on rampage course.

The Prime Minister had two sessions with the couple at his official residence and stated that the father was not welcome. For him that was a hard condition. If that was not met, he simply would not send a Bill of Consent to the States-General (Parliament). Reportedly Máxima became very emotional and non-understanding while the Prince seemed blind for what the attendance of Jorge could mean for Parliament and on the festive day itself.

Would the Prince insist on marrying Máxima, without Bill of Consent, the constitutional consequenses would be enormous. Of course the Prince would give up his place in the line of succession, but it probably would also have caused an enormous crisis, a hefty boomerang direct hitting in the face of "The Hague" as it could be framed as "politicians deny a sweet royal love story" with the already hugely popular Máxima starring.

In the end it was Jorge Zorreguieta himself who decided not to come, with this removing the blockade. It seems Jorge was not convinced that his absence was the best for his daughter and was also worried about his (family's) social standing when he would become synomymous with "the-father-who-had-to-be-absent-from-a-royal-wedding-because-of-his-role-in-a-military-dicatorship".

In the end he gave in: "If my attendance at a ceremony has such political consequences, I am willing not to attend" and signed that promise.
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  #58  
Old 02-03-2022, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Yes it was real because an angered and fed-up Prince, totally on cloud nine and in love with Máxima, was on rampage course.

The Prime Minister had two sessions with the couple at his official residence and stated that the father was not welcome. For him that was a hard condition. If that was not met, he simply would not send a Bill of Consent to the States-General (Parliament). Reportedly Máxima became very emotional and non-understanding while the Prince seemed blind for what the attendance of Jorge could mean for Parliament and on the festive day itself.

Would the Prince insist on marrying Máxima, without Bill of Consent, the constitutional consequenses would be enormous. Of course the Prince would give up his place in the line of succession, but it probably would also have caused an enormous crisis, a hefty boomerang direct hitting in the face of "The Hague" as it could be framed as "politicians deny a sweet royal love story" with the already hugely popular Máxima starring.

In the end it was Jorge Zorreguieta himself who decided not to come, with this removing the blockade. It seems Jorge was not convinced that his absence was the best for his daughter and was also worried about his (family's) social standing when he would become synomymous with "the-father-who-had-to-be-absent-from-a-royal-wedding-because-of-his-role-in-a-military-dicatorship".

In the end he gave in: "If my attendance at a ceremony has such political consequences, I am willing not to attend" and signed that promise.
And Amen to that,and they all lived happily evr after.

A lot was already known at the time,how nice to have this all dished up again as some love to immortalize themselves over the back of all those in charge at the time.

And how FFing hypocritical,the Official Dutch stand against the engagement of this couple,hypocritical because the Dutch turned every stone to get to the WC Football in Argentina in 1974,and ...karma in hindsight hahaha......lost...from Germany,another lovestory that hampered still by that time...30 years after the war....But we talking Argentina here...What Argentina? Has one ever mentioned the consequences of what would have been without matters as they were at the time?We, ...and by WE I mean those old enough to have knowledge and awareness at that time.It was not just a rebellious atmosphere in Argentina,against madame Peron,it was straightout terrorist a go go with bombings ,anarchy and murders every day.What?What would or can one do,safe and warm and 1000´s of miles away?Easy to condone.I condone violence,all sorts of violence,all!By the
Choosen or on the street,but especially by the choosen....

But now it showed how some circles..not mine by far...still have a bad time thinking how they were put aside ,still mad they couldn´t live up to their left talk on the matter but living in right and well to do circumstances.No,we will see this whole hullabaloo again in 5 years at the Silver wedding,and at Amalia´s engagement and oh,her wedding too ofcourse...No,it doesn´t appeal to me at all----

Nor does the announcement of a new series,totally dedicated to Maxima...and the directors...oh,and Videolands pockets.Should be aired fall next year...If it is just as inaccurate as The Crown then I derive it here and now as cheap trash...for the easily entertained,not for the history and accuracy...But that´s another story.Have a nice evening all.
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  #59  
Old 02-03-2022, 01:39 PM
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We will see these stories popping up with every jubilee. The same with Juliana and Bernhard with the media never too shallow to show footage of wedding guests bringing the Hitler Salute and stating the Nazi hymne ("Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen!") was played in the Theatre Royal in The Hague.

Yeaaaaaaah, we knoooooooowwww, dear media, it is more than 80 years ago! Like the British media never too lazy to sh*t on Edward and Wallis mentioning they have met Hitler, pfffffff. This whole story of "how WA & ,M almost caused a constitutional crisis" will remain for ever.
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  #60  
Old 06-26-2022, 02:03 PM
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News about Willem-Alexander and Máxima's engagement:

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