Dutch State Visit to France: March 10-11, 2016

[Jacknch]

Let me put it this way:

I am far from disappointed in tonights concert event! The King and Queen of the Netherlands looked stunning, Queen Maxima was, in the words of Al_bina, ravishing, the venue was incredible and the atmosphere of Paris at night as wonderful as ever. The French should be proud of being able to provide a delightful backdrop for a state visit. As for the president? He should have been a very important element to the occasion, but chose to fail the office of the President of France.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Queens Juliana and Beatrix did they also prononce prononce a toast in French during their State Visits?
Was it expected that the King would do it in French ? He did well.

Duc do you speak french as well as your King ? or even better ??

No, I do not speak French that good, I can understand every word (passive French) but I make grammatical errors when I have to formulate in a conversation (active French). But daily communication is no any problem.

Here you see Queen Beatrix making her discours in Spain, in French (!), the standard language at all royal courts. Go to 5 minutes and hear S.M. la Reina Doña Beatriz de los Países-Bajos speaking in the language of Molière:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y40vlEEpH8s

So glamorous: look at the mise-en-scène, look at the fleurs des Pays-Bas transported to the Petit Palais!


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdS2N-IUsAAAiuQ.jpg

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Jacknch

Let me put it this way:

I am far from disappointed in tonights concert event! The King and Queen of the Netherlands looked stunning, Queen Maxima was, in the words of Al_bina, ravishing, the venue was incredible and the atmosphere of Paris at night as wonderful as ever. The French should be proud of being able to provide a delightful backdrop for a state visit. As for the president? He should have been a very important element to the occasion, but chose to fail the office of the President of France.

The French President could at least have worn black tie,he looked out of place against that sumptuous setting,perhaps François Hollande should invest in some new evening attire.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

The French President could at least have worn black tie,he looked out of place against that sumptuous setting,perhaps François Hollande should invest in some new evening attire.

And while at that,maybe he should reserve his french arrogance for others then the hosts of last night!!The little creep just stayed for almost 15 minutes and then just left!!!The nerve!!He left the evening that was a present to him and France.How F***** typical arrogance,excuse my language!Would he have done the same with Obama or Lillibeth???I don't think so...But it shows the arrogance of this petit nuisance of a president.Furious?Yes.Very!
If e isn't able to set a positive example,how does anyone expect us to respect the French top?The arrogance shown is unforgivable and all guests were "not amused" by petit Francois behaviour!But then what's new,ask them at KLM what they really think of their French partner.....Starts with an A followed by an M-word,and that's right spot on!

[Duc_et_Pair]

What did you think of the Dutch contra-prestation, Lucien? I was very surprised by the grand setting, the glamour, the flowers, the torch-bearing footmen, the sparkling Queen. On the GREMB some Dutch posters nagged about Willem-Alexander just wanting to be the CEO of Netherlands Inc but also here again the royal couple made a great show of their contra-prestation, like they did in Copenhagen. This was really a sort of time-warp back in Ye Olde Days, when Queen Juliana used to fly her staff in for a grand event! I am very positively impressed. The last year Hollande was visited by the Kings of Sweden, Spain, Belgium and Jordan. None of them made such a grande spectacle as Leurs Majestés le Roi et la Reine des Pays-Bas.

Don't blame the French. Parisians love a good show. It is just the President and his idea of destroying French monarchal grandeur befitting a Président de la république française. The King and Queen were transported in one of the hundreds Zéro Emission-busses made for the Ville de Paris by VDL Bus in Eindhoven. Royal Dutch Shell and Total/Elf Oil from France are going to explore new low-emission fuels. Philips is in the market to replace all Paris monumental lighting with innovative OLED-lighting, the Dutch railways have ordered hundreds of new trains at Alsthom (a French-Dutch-German carriage constructor) for their new trains. It is really not only KLM-Air France ;-)

[Duc_et_Pair]

The King and Queen gave the President their usual cadeau: two replicas of a 17th C Delft blue tulip vase which were brought into fashion by Mary II Stuart, Princess of Orange (and Queen of England, Scotland, Ireland). The vases were made in exactly the 17th C techniques by De Porceleyne Fles in Delft.

On his turn the President gave the King a horloge. The King seems a lover of horloges and has some 150 expensive ones in his drawer... The Queen was given a clutch by a Paris couture house.

In comparison with the Sultan of Brunei, the French President got smaller Delftblue vases. This has to do with reciprocity. The costs of the gifts from both sides must be in more or less the same league. When Queen Beatrix visited Schloss Oranienbaum in Germany, she donated big vases to line a stairway there, so it is not solely to Presidents etc.


These to the Sultan of Brunei

These to Schloss Oranienbaum

[wartenberg7]

OMG! Could state visits turn out any worse?!

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

OMG! Could state visits turn out any worse?!

What was worse? There was not even a contra-prestation for the Spanish and Belgian visits, only a "reception" and away the guests were... At least the Dutch made some spectacle.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

What was worse? There was not even a contra-prestation for the Spanish and Belgian visits, only a "reception" and away the guests were... At least the Dutch made some spectacle.

Are you serious?! A host snubbing his guests by staying only 15 min. is hardly an ignorance that could be topped! Do you invite someone to your birthday party and then say goodbye after a couple of minutes?
Do you really mean the bad belgian and spanish examples would do the dutch disaster any better?
Hollande didn´t left anything out to proof how "socialiste" and "modest" he was (though I don´t see any oposition in being socialiste and being polite and a good host a country can be proud of). And yes, like a fellow poster said, I also believe he wouldn´t have dared this behaviour if the Queen (here he - wow! - even wore black tie...), the US President, the Pope or even Putin would have visited!
I was very pleased to see that Queen Elizabeth ignored both the dress code in Paris like in Berlin last year where both she wore her jewels and orders of those 2 countries respectively. Again she´s a role model for others that should follow her example in that respect, too.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

Are you serious?! A host snubbing his guests by staying only 15 min. is hardly an ignorance that could be topped! Do you invite someone to your birthday party and then say goodbye after a couple of minutes?
Do you really mean the bad belgian and spanish examples would do the dutch disaster any better?
Hollande didn´t left anything out to proof how "socialiste" and "modest" he was (though I don´t see any oposition in being socialiste and being polite and a good host a country can be proud of). And yes, like a fellow poster said, I also believe he wouldn´t have dared this behaviour if the Queen (here he - wow! - even wore black tie...), the US President, the Pope or even Putin would have visited!
I was very pleased to see that Queen Elizabeth ignored both the dress code in Paris like in Berlin last year where both she wore her jewels and orders of those 2 countries respectively. Again she´s a role model for others that should follow her example in that respect, too.

Herr Gauck, Herr Wulff and Herr Kölher (Presidents of Germany) also have been in awkward overlooked situations, despite being heads-of-state of the most powerful West-European state, as all eyes are on Frau Merkel.

Then the dresscode. Tastes differ. When ladies are not even in long dress and gentlemen are wearing suit, then Queen Elizabeth stepping out of the car with her white granny hairdo adorned with a diadem, a big sash over her dress and her husband bowing down under the weight of medals, it becomes a walking anachronism. The dresscode should fit with the colour locale otherwise people are making a fool of themselves.

Queen Máxima wore a white dress with sparkling gold sequins and her set of Borneo diamonds, which belong to her best diamonds. She did her best. When she would have stepped out of that car in a long robe with a sparkling diadem on her head while tout Paris was just in sweaty polyester suits, she was making a fool of herself.

Here an example of a total mismatch

Here another example of totally derailing dresscodes

[Duc_et_Pair]

It has been reported that the flowers which adorned the stairs of the Petit Palais in red-white-blue pots will be distributed to people in hospices all over Paris, to bring some fleur to their rooms.

What a nice thought!

[fandesacs2003]

Could someone post a video of King WA speaking in French ? I watched his mother, in a perfect French, like all the royals of this generation, but what about him?

[tommy100]

I think the difference is in the picture with the Chinese premier the Queen was hosting him, therefore he should have complied with her dress code.

I think you should always respect the dress code of the host even if its not what you would choose, therefore IMO the President should have gone for black tie for the return event if thats what the King & Queen asked for. And of course he shouldn't have left after the first ten minutes, that's just plain rudeness.

I think its sad the French President can't put on a tux, he hosts visiting heads of state in one of the most chic cities in the world but looks like he's just come straight from another meeting. That must be the look he wants to project, always working. Must to me its quite sad especially when surrounded with the pomp and beauty of the Elysee Palace and Paris.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Then the dresscode. Tastes differ. When ladies are not even in long dress and gentlemen are wearing suit, then Queen Elizabeth stepping out of the car with her white granny hairdo adorned with a diadem, a big sash over her dress and her husband bowing down under the weight of medals, it becomes a walking anachronism. The dresscode should fit with the colour locale otherwise people are making a fool of themselves.

Queen Máxima wore a white dress with sparkling gold sequins and her set of Borneo diamonds, which belong to her best diamonds. She did her best. When she would have stepped out of that car in a long robe with a sparkling diadem on her head while tout Paris was just in sweaty polyester suits, she was making a fool of herself.

Here an example of a total mismatch

Here another example of totally derailing dresscodes

Almost every lady, including Merkel, DID wear long dresses for the state banquet in Berlin last june!

I didn´t say Her Majesty the Queen of the Netherlands did any wrong - the french side is the only one to blame!
Do you really think these underdressed people should set the style or those who know what a STATE BANQUET requires?!
This is not a private dinner with friends where everyone may dress what he/ she likes; dressing the correct way is part of these people´s job!

When we come to your photo examples - this one´s at Buck. Palace. Is the Queen in her own house to blame for the bad taste and unconsciousness of these high "representatives" of their country?
Here an example of a total mismatch

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by tommy100

I think the difference is in the picture with the Chinese premier the Queen was hosting him, therefore he should have complied with her dress code.

I think you should always respect the dress code of the host even if its not what you would choose, therefore IMO the President should have gone for black tie for the return event if thats what the King & Queen asked for. And of course he shouldn't have left after the first ten minutes, that's just plain rudeness.

I think its sad the French President can't put on a tux, he hosts visiting heads of state in one of the most chic cities in the world but looks like he's just come straight from another meeting. That must be the look he wants to project, always working. Must to me its quite sad especially when surrounded with the pomp and beauty of the Elysee Palace and Paris.

I have the idea that Jacques Chirac and François Mitterrand were more classic presidents, meaning: let their Premier Ministres doing the daily politics. They focussed on presidential terrains as Foreign Affairs, Defense and the representation of La France in the world. Back then premiers as Pierre Mauroy, Édouard Balladur, Dominique de Villepin, Lionel Jospin were so much more political leaders of the Government.

Under Sarkozy and Hollande it has become like the President is also Premier-Ministre as well and profiling more with daily politics while Chirac and Mitterrand delegated this to their Premiers and kept more distance between Élysée (President) and Matignon (Premier).

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

Almost every lady, including Merkel, DID wear long dresses for the state banquet in Berlin last june!

I didn´t say Her Majesty the Queen of the Netherlands did any wrong - the french side is the only one to blame!
Do you really think these underdressed people should set the style or those who know what a STATE BANQUET requires?!
This is not a private dinner with friends where everyone may dress what he/ she likes; dressing the correct way is part of these people´s job!

When we come to your photo examples - this one´s at Buck. Palace. Is the Queen in her own house to blame for the bad taste and unconsciousness of these high "representatives" of their country?
Here an example of a total mismatch

The King and Queen of Spain, the King and Queen of the Belgians, the King and Queen of Sweden, the King and Queen of Jordan and now the King and Queen of the Netherlands, they have all observed day suit and normal dress for the "state banquet" at the Palais de l'Élysée. They all decided not to go against the dresscode wished by the host.

It is true that in the Chinese example the President of China and his delegations did not follow the British dresscode. Then there is a situation with one half of the banqueting hall in grand gala, white tie and glittering diadems. The other half of the banqueting hall in daily suit and normal dress. Queen Elizabeth II sticks to that.

Other Courts probably see this "an undesirable situation" as they want the state banquet to be an event where all guests feel comfortable. When President Chirac came to the Netherlands, he requested cravate-noire, to the amazement of the Dutch hosts. His Court also refused to let the President and Mme Chirac sleep in the "too Spartan" appartments of the Royal Palace in Amsterdam. (This was before the recent modernization and renovation). The Court decided "in good agreement" to set the dresscode to cravate noire indeed. Apparently Queen Beatrix felt nothing for "British situations" with awkward pictures.

When Queen Beatrix visited Turkey, the dresscode was daily suit. But when President Gül came to the Netherlands, the dresscode was cravate blanche: picture So it is giving and taking. I am sure that -if you asked Máxima- she would have loved it to wear the Empire Laurel Wreath Diadem or another fitting sparkler in Paris...

[assia]

How do we know that Francois Hollande left the réception only after 15 minutes?


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[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by assia

How do we know that Francois Hollande left the réception only after 15 minutes?


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There were LOTS of media, cameras and journalists outside....

Paris Match:

"Il est un peu plus de 20h30 quand la reine Maxima, audacieuse dans une robe Tom Ford aux motifs psychés, a remonté le tapis rouge en compagnie de son époux le roi Willem-Alexander et du président de la République, François Hollande. Les invités, réunis dans une aile du Petit Palais, ont vu arriver leurs majestés un quart d’heure plus tard, en compagnie de la maire de Paris Anne Hidalgo et du chef de la diplomatie Jean-Marc Ayrault… mais sans François Hollande. Le président de la République, après un dernier toast au champagne en l’honneur de ses invités, s'en est retourné à l’Élysée."

[...]

"Au terme de cette heure de concert, donnée dans le cadre magnifique du Petit Palais, de ses peintures du XXe siècle et de son acoustique particulière, les invités étaient conviés dans la galerie sud. Leurs Majestés le roi Willem-Alexander des Pays-Bas et son épouse la reine Maxima avaient fait organiser une grande réception pour clôturer, avec quelques douceurs, cette visite d'Etat."

[carlota]

again, i am delighted they chose the petit palais. what a fab place to end a state visit! i can't reiterate enough how much i love this palace.

i give hollande a bit of slack. he is a head of state, he has many things on his plate, including dealing with a tense socio-political situation and the fact that the country was in a state of emergency only some months ago with a huge terrorist attack... to me, what he wears is irrelevant, as long as he deals correctly with such a sensitive situation.

[Al_bina]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

... [snipped]
These to the Sultan of Brunei

The gentleman on the photo is not Sultan of Brunei. If memory serves me right, this is Sheikh Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan.