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  #101  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:04 AM
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Since when is a sister-in-law or any other member of a family that is not a *blood* relative not a family member? I would bet all members of any one's family here is a *family member*, be they in laws or cousins or aunts or uncles or grandparents ....good grief the harshness of the world. Just glad I am not like that......so be it!
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  #102  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:07 AM
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it doesn't matter. State visits involve too much work to be cancelled.. Think of all the work and expense that heas gone into them, and the people that would be disappointed..
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  #103  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:16 AM
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To me it's quite natural for the King not to cancel the State Visits and also that this in no way signifies him not loving his sister-in-law or being disrespectful to her memory.
He's the King and duty comes before all.
Even though I'm sure it's tough for him he'll be alright. As said by close friend Kjeld Hillingsø about Queen Margrethe in the days before her husband's death: "Its part of her upbringing. The members of The Royal Family are raised to carry all the burdens life may afflict upon them without it affecting their ability to do their duty".
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  #104  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Katymcwaity View Post
No doubt months of preparation have gone into the visit and rearranging wouldn’t be easy as hundreds of people must be involved from the Netherlands and the Baltic countries.

Is there maybe some protocol involved too? Whilst Máxima is known as Queen, its only a courtesy thing as her husband is King and he is the main person. So maybe if it had been his sister then they could cancel but can’t as its Máxima’s? Which is incredibly harsh sounding but some protocol is slightly odd.

Whilst Everyone needs time to process whats happened, sometimes too much time to think is also a bad thing.
It is very simple for HM,duty comes first,even at hard personal times,that is all there is too it.Most would have cancelled as easy is the way to go these days,but not for a Monarch.C'est ca.
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  #105  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:22 AM
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There is a great deal of difference between a private individual's taking time off wrok because of bereavement, and a king.. A private person's work can be covered, but no one can do a state visit but the King/queen.. and it is a big big undertaking, which if cancelled would mean a lot of money and time and hard work was wasted and a lot of people disappointed..
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  #106  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:02 AM
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The minimum leave people can take for a 1st degree relative is 4 days. For a 2nd degree relative it is 2 days. For a sister-in-law there are no agreed rules, and no leave-days will be given. Most people would have been working by now if their sister(-in-law) died. Many would have been working between the death and the funeral. People can of course always use vacation days to take leave. Employers will usually be understanding. If circumstances allow it most people prefer to be back at work as soon as possible.

His mother was forced to work on the day of the funeral of her husband, the late prince Claus, as the government collapsed on the same day & had to hand in their resignation at the palace.

The king himself stated that rescheduling the state visits would have been very complicated as it involves 4 different governments. Coupled to the visit was an economic mission, which could not be postponed.

The king's decision is the most sensible one.

The queen supposedly still is in Argentina. I am not sure if the princesses stayed there too. Normally they should be back in school but the school is free to give a dispensation when it makes sense.
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  #107  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:16 AM
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Well in reading all the above comments about NOT canceling the state visits, I certainly can see that I come from a very different time and place then the rest of the world. I like my time and place so much better then the way the world today thinks of just about everything it seems......duty to me is about taking care of family first and foremost, not anything else, yet that is just me and I do not expect anyone to agree with me as there is no room for anyone else in my time and place...
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  #108  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:18 AM
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and how is WA not "not taking care of his family?" He has gone to the funeral, he will be wih his wife as much as he can but he isn't going to be there 24/7 when he has a foreign visit to make. Most people can't take ages off, to "look after family" even if they really want to..
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  #109  
Old 06-12-2018, 07:43 AM
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Sometimes too, when faced with a sudden death in the family, it can actually be a comfort for some to have "everyday obligations" to keep them occupied and focused. It never means that they don't grieve any less.

With HM attending and going ahead with a preplanned state visit, perhaps in doing this, he is also setting an example for Catharina-Amalia that sometimes one has to forge on and meet duties and obligations regardless of what one is going through personally.

How a person grieves is a very personal matter.
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  #110  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:21 AM
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I also believe that because of their duties Maxima and the Zorrigueta family have encouraged him to continue on with the state visits without her. Certainly the host nations will understand her absence.
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  #111  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Katymcwaity View Post
No doubt months of preparation have gone into the visit and rearranging wouldn’t be easy as hundreds of people must be involved from the Netherlands and the Baltic countries.

Is there maybe some protocol involved too? Whilst Máxima is known as Queen, its only a courtesy thing as her husband is King and he is the main person. So maybe if it had been his sister then they could cancel but can’t as its Máxima’s? Which is incredibly harsh sounding but some protocol is slightly odd.

Whilst Everyone needs time to process whats happened, sometimes too much time to think is also a bad thing.
The main difference would be that any sibling of the king is also a member of the royal house so a different protocol would be followed.

In normal cases, someone would be allowed to take up any vacation time that is deemed necessary (if available) unless the employer can proof the employee cannot be missed at all. Most people might continue working but would not go on a business trip for a week when something tragic in their family happens as they want to stay close to their family members.
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  #112  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:54 AM
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State visits are a big deal involving months of work, expense and organsining.. They aren't cancelled. WA is not doubt sorry that his sister In law has died, but she's not his own family and he has work to do..
He is not 'sorry', he, together with the whole family, is devastated that his sister in law took her own life. That was clear as day from his message on Sunday. I don't think he could be more devastated had it happened to a blood relative.

Everyone would have understood if he had cancelled (state visits get cancelled quite often; recently the Jordanians cancelled theirs, a few years ago the Indonesian government did the same, the Spaniards cancelled their UK state visit several times) but in this case it's not one but three state visits so it would be even more complicated. So, I guess it was the king himself who decided within a few hours of hearing that Inés had passed away that duty comes before family even in this most tragic case.
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  #113  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:57 AM
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It is very simple for HM,duty comes first,even at hard personal times,that is all there is too it.Most would have cancelled as easy is the way to go these days,but not for a Monarch.C'est ca.
In a way, yes, but on the other hand, most people don't take off from work for weeks when a family member dies and that is exactly what happened when prince Henrik passed away. The court announced a mourning period in which most activities were cancelled. So, his wife and children(-in-law) all didn't 'work' for over a month because he passed away. Very unlikely to happen for 'normal people'.
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  #114  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
To me it's quite natural for the King not to cancel the State Visits and also that this in no way signifies him not loving his sister-in-law or being disrespectful to her memory.
He's the King and duty comes before all.
Even though I'm sure it's tough for him he'll be alright. As said by close friend Kjeld Hillingsø about Queen Margrethe in the days before her husband's death: "Its part of her upbringing. The members of The Royal Family are raised to carry all the burdens life may afflict upon them without it affecting their ability to do their duty".

Nonetheless, the Royal Court of Denmark went into official mourning after Henrik passed away and there were no official engagements during that period. If what happened to Inés had happened to an official member of the Royal House like Prince Constantijn for example, I am pretty sure that the state visit would have been canceled and, in that sense, I agree the rationale for this asymmetric treatment is not strong.



The point M Payton, I think, was trying to make is that W-A's wife and daughters are probably in distress right now and that, as a parent and a husband, he could take a week or so to be there for them.


I understand the King and his counterparts in the Baltic countries have a busy schedule, but the summer is actually a rather uneventful time of the year in most European countries. In fact, many royals take vacations at this time of the year. I don't think it would be that difficult to posatpone those state visits to a later date. The Spanish state visit to the UK for example, for different reasons, was rescheduled twice.
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  #115  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:17 AM
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The Danes did work but chose to refrain from functions deemed to frivolous so soon after the death of Henrik. In addition to this they had more than a week full of public events, greeting representatives of official Denmark, foreign diplomats etc. They weren't on their backs in the sofas of Amalienborg. Also had Margrethe been a commoner she'd be a retired woman by now and not a lady who like every monarch rarely gets a day off.
The Bernadottes received an incoming State Visit from Turkey the day after the death of Princess Lilian.
These people might lead a privileged existence but most of them are working constantly and often under conditions which would cause many to buckle under.
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  #116  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
The Danes did work but chose to refrain from functions deemed to frivolous so soon after the death of Henrik. In addition to this they had more than a week full of public events, greeting representatives of official Denmark, foreign diplomats etc. They weren't on their backs in the sofas of Amalienborg. Also had Margrethe been a commoner she'd be a retired woman by now and not a lady who like every monarch rarely gets a day off.
The Bernadottes received an incoming State Visit from Turkey the day after the death of Princess Lilian.
These people might lead a privileged existence but most of them are working constantly and often under conditions which would cause many to buckle under.



But in none of your examples did they leave the country immediately after the funeral. The family stayed together so they could grieve properly.
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  #117  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
But in none of your examples did they leave the country immediately after the funeral. The family stayed together so they could grieve properly.
I don't think there is one single way to grieve, and what does "grieve properly" even mean? For some people, it helps to keep working. Others just want to crawl up into a corner and cry. Until it happens to you, you simply don't know how you're going to react. Every situation and every single individual is different. I think that both W-A and Maxima are grounded and thoughtful indivuduals and parents. They are doing what's best for them as individuals and as a family right now. I trust their decisions.
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  #118  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:41 AM
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In a way, yes, but on the other hand, most people don't take off from work for weeks when a family member dies and that is exactly what happened when prince Henrik passed away. The court announced a mourning period in which most activities were cancelled. So, his wife and children(-in-law) all didn't 'work' for over a month because he passed away. Very unlikely to happen for 'normal people'.
Yes, correct. With regard for 'normal people', I'd get 3 days for spouse/parents/children and 1 day for parents-in-law and grandparents. Nothing for sister/brother in law. Of course you can always find a doctor who agrees you are ill, or take holiday (what clearly is not the purpose of holiday). I've lived in countries where you have compassionate leave (when my father passed away I got 2 weeks of absence paid) but in Germany there is no such thing.

So even 'normal' people don't have much choice when the sister-in-law dies, tragic as it is, very much depends on the kindness of your employer, to me it is no question that WA goes back to duty after the funeral.
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  #119  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:42 AM
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But in none of your examples did they leave the country immediately after the funeral. The family stayed together so they could grieve properly.
I wasn't just replying to your post, but more making a general weighing in on the subject of discussion. The Queen did leave Denmark for two weeks after the funeral was over and done with.
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  #120  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:04 AM
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OK,this is becoming a non-sensical thread and in memory of Inéz this doesn't really add to anything but tittatand another tittat of those who know and those who haven't got a clue as to the working of State,our State and it's Monarch.Really sad really.That wasn't the intention of the thread I believe,and it adds nothing.Sad.
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