Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence

[Xigua]

Thank you, Lumutqueen. I don`t think I put my question clearly. What I meant was more along the lines of how was it decided, for instance, that Charles and Camilla were rather tucked away at the end on their row, but Albert II of Monaco appears to be (so to speak) right next to the action? And how is it determined that the Norwegian Crown Prince and Princess are in the next row, and so on? I investigated the Almanach de Gotha to try and learn about how precedence would be determined for such an event, but didn't get very far ...

Sincere thanks for any information any of you may have!

Thanks again.

[dbarn67]

Originally Posted by Xigua

Thank you, Lumutqueen. I don`t think I put my question clearly. What I meant was more along the lines of how was it decided, for instance, that Charles and Camilla were rather tucked away at the end on their row, but Albert II of Monaco appears to be (so to speak) right next to the action? And how is it determined that the Norwegian Crown Prince and Princess are in the next row, and so on? I investigated the Almanach de Gotha to try and learn about how precedence would be determined for such an event, but didn't get very far ...

Sincere thanks for any information any of you may have!

Thanks again.

Prince Albert, Sheikha Mozah and Lalla Salma were seated closest to front and center because they are reigning monarchs. I'm not sure about the order after that but I think after the monarchs were the crown princely couples and so on.

[Xigua]

Thanks, dbarn67: your reply makes sense.

If anyone has further material or information about this sort of protocol, I'd be grateful to see it.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by dbarn67

Prince Albert, Sheikha Mozah and Lalla Salma were seated closest to front and center because they are reigning monarchs. I'm not sure about the order after that but I think after the monarchs were the crown princely couples and so on.

They are seated after the length of reign of ther father/mother. Only the japanese Crown Princely Couple has been given precedence over the others.

[MissByrd]

Would someone from the Netherlands mind giving us the words (in English) of their National Anthem as they sang it at the Inauguration? I did look it up online and found it interesting and poignant. But, there are many verses. So, what were the actual words/verses that they typically sing? I will appreciate it and say thanks in advance.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by MissByrd

Would someone from the Netherlands mind giving us the words (in English) of their National Anthem as they sang it at the Inauguration? I did look it up online and found it interesting and poignant. But, there are many verses. So, what were the actual words/verses that they typically sing? I will appreciate it and say thanks in advance.

This might help you,the Wilhelmus lyrics



Wilhelmus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Lee-Z]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

This might help you,the Wilhelmus lyrics

Wilhelmus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The first verse is always sung as national anthem, the sixth only occassionally, but on this specific occassion both verse 1 and 6 were sung..

[MissByrd]

Thank you, Lee-Z. That's what I was wondering...which verses. It is a very moving National Anthem...especially when you know the history behind it.

[DutchJohnny]

In 1948 Queen Wilhelmina abdicated and used the title of Princess so there wouldn’t be two queens in the country. She wanted to avoid the fact that people might get confused. And Juliana and Beatrix did the same. Look at Belgium for instance, where there were two kings and three queens after the abdication of King Albert II.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by DutchJohnny

In 1948 Queen Wilhelmina abdicated and used the title of Princess so there wouldn’t be two queens in the country. She wanted to avoid the fact that people might get confused. And Juliana and Beatrix did the same. Look at Belgium for instance, where there were two kings and three queens after the abdication of King Albert II.

There were 2 queen Elizabeth's in the UK up until 2002 and no got confused as to who was who

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

There were 2 queen Elizabeth's in the UK up until 2002 and no got confused as to who was who

Exactly. They could have gone by HM the Queen and Queen Wilhelmina. And to that Wilhelmina almost never attended anything official after her abdication so not many occasions where both of them were present.

[Marengo]

It was Wilhelmina's own explicit wish to revert to the title of Princess. Apart from the reason as described by Johnny she also liked the idea that she would part the world with the same title that she had entered it.

[Duc_et_Pair]

In her own memoires Eenzaam, maar niet alleen the Queen mentioned the abdication of Charles V as Duke of Burgundy (and so as Lord of the Netherlands) on October 25th 1555 in Brussels. That was a most remarkable act, a King freely abdicating the throne.

Queen Wilhelmina wrote she was very inspired by this solemn and honourable act (and mentioned how Charles retired in anonymity in the monastery of St Yuste). That was something she wanted for herself too, a retirement in anonymity. She also liked to return to the style which was hers and with which she was born: Princess Wilhelmina.

Later her daughter Queen Juliana and her granddaughter Queen Beatrix followed this example. In 2002 this "tradition" became formalized in the reviewed Act on the membership of the Royal House.

Article 8 Act on the membership of the Royal House, first lemma:
- the presumed successor to the King
- the King who has abdicated the kingship
bear the title Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands

Article 9 Act on the membership of the Royal House, first lemma:
- the presumed successor to the King
- the King who has abdicated the kingship
bear the title Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau

So we already know the King will return to the style he had before the kingship: Prince Willem-Alexander.

[An Ard Ri]

There are different traditions in each monarchy ,post abdication the former kings of Belgium and Spain and spouses retained the title of king/queen ,in Luxembourg the same with the late Grand Duke Jean and Grand Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte.

We even have a current and former Pope too!

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

In her own memoires Eenzaam, maar niet alleen the Queen mentioned the abdication of Charles V as Duke of Burgundy (and so as Lord of the Netherlands) on October 25th 1555 in Brussels. That was a most remarkable act, a King freely abdicating the throne.

Queen Wilhelmina wrote she was very inspired by this solemn and honourable act (and mentioned how Charles retired in anonymity in the monastery of St Yuste). That was something she wanted for herself too, a retirement in anonymity. She also liked to return to the style which was hers and with which she was born: Princess Wilhelmina.

Later her daughter Queen Juliana and her granddaughter Queen Beatrix followed this example. In 2002 this "tradition" became formalized in the reviewed Act on the membership of the Royal House.

Article 8 Act on the membership of the Royal House, first lemma:
- the presumed successor to the King
- the King who has abdicated the kingship
bear the title Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands

Article 9 Act on the membership of the Royal House, first lemma:
- the presumed successor to the King
- the King who has abdicated the kingship
bear the title Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau

So we already know the King will return to the style he had before the kingship: Prince Willem-Alexander.

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

There are different traditions in each monarchy ,post abdication the former kings of Belgium and Spain and spouses retained the title of king/queen ,in Luxembourg the same with the late Grand Duke Jean and Grand Duchess Joséphine-Charlotte.

We even have a current and former Pope too!

And a former Emperor as well.

[Lee-Z]

To be complete: afaik, after her passing away, Queen Juliana is again officially referred to as 'Queen' not 'Princess Juliana'..

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

To be complete: afaik, after her passing away, Queen Juliana is again officially referred to as 'Queen' not 'Princess Juliana'..

And buried with all the honours of a queen too.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

And buried with all the honours of a queen too.

But at her funeral she was still adressed as Princess not as Queen

[Duc_et_Pair]

[QUOTE=Stefan;2421607]But at her funeral she was still adressed as Princess not as Queen[/QUOTE]

Also this was inspired by Queen Wilhelmina, whom refused to have the regalia placed on her coffin: there was only one Queen, and that was her daughter.

The officiating minister during Queen Juliana's funeral, the quite patrician Reverend Mrs Welmoet Hudig-Semijns de Vries van Doesborgh even ended her eulogy with lieve mevrouw. At the start of the funeral service the officiating minister stressed that she strictly follows Queen Juliana's wishes: no praise, no honour, Juliana thought she "just" was obedient to her destiny.

Juliana saw no merit in having being Queen. It was just her "fate". This theme of obedience came back in her wish to have the seldom sung 15th and last stanza of the Wilhelmus (the national anthem) at the end of the service:

Unto the Lord His power
I do confession make
That ne'er at any hour
Ill of the King I spake.

But unto God, the greatest
Of Majesties I owe
Obedience first and latest,
For Justice wills it so.