Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence

[lucien]

Btw,Make a Difference Day will be held in the same style in the future as it has been the past years,the next MaDD is next month.

The Royal Cypher over the Throne in the Hall of Knights gets an intertwined W&A instead of the "B" now.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by lucien

I disagree Your Grace....As you know the wife always adopts the title of the husband,as a courtesy title,never a Queen Regnant.Whereas the Queen Regnant is that and the same rule applying to a husband would be too much of it all indeed,there would be a "new"ruling House..

No,a Kings spouse is a Queen,even for Camilla...as that is per chance where you come from..hah!..

No,one does have Kings and Queens,and that will remain to be the case as it always was and has been and will be...But what about the title of Duke...The world wouldn't notice of that was to be abolished would it...?
Just askin....grin...

Hands off my title!!!

Honestly, I dont think that a Queens husband should be a prince while Kings wife is a queen.

I believe in other countries, where the monarchy is not as rock solid as in the Netherlands or where there are controversies in that respect, I can imagine the Queen consort to be known as princess X (despite technically being a queen), eg Camilla or Letizia, to deflect from the importance of their own person.

[Bine221]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Hands off my title!!!

Honestly, I dont think that a Queens husband should be a prince while Kings wife is a queen.

I believe in other countries, where the monarchy is not as rock solid as in the Netherlands or where there are controversies in that respect, I can imagine the Queen consort to be known as princess X (despite technically being a queen), eg Camilla or Letizia, to deflect from the importance of their own person.

Why a Princess Letizia after a Queen Sophia? It does not makes sense, IMO
BYe Bine

[Bine221]

Originally Posted by Princess Robijn

Titles and names:

When Queen Beatrix abdicates, His Royal Highness the Prince of Orange will become King Willem-Alexander, and Her Royal Highness Princess Máxima of the Netherlands will become Queen Máxima. They will both be addressed as 'Your Majesty'. After abdicating, Queen Beatrix will be called Her Royal Highness Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, etc. As soon as the Prince of Orange ascends the throne, his eldest child, Her Royal Highness Princess Catharina-Amalia, will be the first in line to the throne. She will then become the Princess of Orange (under section 7 of the Membership of the Royal House Act).

The titles and names of the other members of the Royal Family will not change after Queen Beatrix's abdication. The membership of the Royal House and the line of succession will however change under the above Act.

Source: RVD

It seems, there are some rumors since yesterday, that -- according to an old law -- cannot been given the tital of a Queen. In theory she should remain Princess, unless the Parliamant is changing the law. What are the details around that?
Or just rumors?
BYe Bine

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Bine221

It seems, there are some rumors since yesterday, that -- according to an old law -- cannot been given the tital of a Queen. In theory she should remain Princess, unless the Parliamant is changing the law. What are the details around that?
Or just rumors?
BYe Bine

Bine,good you bring that up so it can be deld with here and now and then tumble into oblivion as I hope goes for the two nitwits that brought it up...Not rumours,but Ignorance by two holyer then thou infantile lawyers who said the PM was to early to announce Máxima would hold the title Queen.

Which ofcourse as we all know is absolute ballony as the spouse of a King AUTOMATICALLY and since centuries take the courtesy title of Queen,no law,no parliament can ever change that,it just went on show again how painfully ignorant some jerks are in regard to what they think they can utter on any subject,let alone our RF.So,in short,this nonsense by these two raised my bloodpressure but found it's way in the trashcan.

Meanwhile the PM has explained exactly the same,well,almost...but on the titles,and besides,it is all on the Royal House website on what happens with titles and when.But why check in this uberspoiled day and age where each is getting all too used to have everything at the ready to consume...in any which way..why read...Other then that,it's saturday in the Kingdom,have a whale of a time!

[kathia_sophia]

its probably just rumours or otherwise the official site of the Dutch royal family would not confirm that Maxima will be a Queen.
and since her 40 birthday, they said (i think the Parliamant) that she will be granted the title of Queen when her husband ascends the throne.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

its probably just rumours or otherwise the official site of the Dutch royal family would not confirm that Maxima will be a Queen.
and since her 40 birthday, they said (i think the Parliamant) that she will be granted the title of Queen when her husband ascends the throne.

Parliament has no-,and never has,any say in the Titles.Ever.
Ignore it,and go by the Royal House website and some of our posters here.

[Princess Robijn]

Originally Posted by Bine221

It seems, there are some rumors since yesterday, that -- according to an old law -- cannot been given the tital of a Queen. In theory she should remain Princess, unless the Parliamant is changing the law. What are the details around that?
Or just rumors?
BYe Bine

I just looked up the 2002 law "Wet lidmaatschap koninklijk huis". (That's the law it's all about)

wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Wet lidmaatschap koninklijk huis - BWBR0013729 -- Google Translation

Article 8 lists those people eligible to be created a Prince or Princess of the Netherlands

a. Spouse of the King
b. Children born from the marriage of the King
c. Spouse of the probable heir of the King
d. Children born from the marriage of the probable heir of the King.
e. Those listed in article 4. (see link above)

--

Articles (in Dutch) related to latest issues about the title for Máxima:
http://www.limburger.nl/article/2013...130219415/1030
http://www.refdag.nl/achtergrond/kon...axima_1_715682
http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/15/...itel-koningin/

Basically, experts are saying that the law states that the spouse of the King is Princess of the Netherlands.

--

However, I'm assuming the discussion here in the Netherlands is based on article 8, section 2, subsection a. In my opinion, It does NOT say that the spouse of the King can "ONLY" be a Princess of the Netherlands or that the spouse of the King can't become Queen. It only lists the spouse of the King/Queen as eligible to be created a Prince or Princess of the Netherlands.

Bear in mind, I did not study law! It's my opinion based on the above law.

[Artemisia]

I agree with your interpretation. To me, it sounds like the 2002 law states the King's spouse can be created Princess of the Netherlands in her own right (which Maxima already is). But it doesn't say she has to be one, or that it can be her only title.

[DukeOfAster]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

I agree with your interpretation. To me, it sounds like the 2002 law states the King's spouse can be created Princess of the Netherlands in her own right. But it doesn't say she has to be one, or that it can be her only title.

it makes sense that she is a Princess in her own right because the day will come when she goes back to the title of a Princess and at that point she has been the wife of a king and has earned the title for herself. so instead of doing that then they give it to her as she is queen and she will be known by the higher title until she goes back to being a princess.

[MarNoe]

It has been interesting reading some of the entries here. For one thing, too many people actually believe everything they read on the internet. They have my sympathy.

But let's face it - in the 21st century monarchies are a bit of an anachronism. I think that's part of why we're so fascinated by them. But, please, let's stop trying to judge these ancient "institutions" by 21st century standards. They really don't apply. In some ways I even regret the change about the order of succession to oldest rather than oldest boy. Yes I know that makes me a dinosaur. But that's just me. If something is done "because it always has been done that way" so what? Is change necessarily a good thing? Not always.

OK off my soap box.

[Rebafan81]

IMHO I hope that Princess Maxima becomes Queen Maxima!

[Artemisia]

It has already been announced that she will.

On a different topic, could someone tell me why the children of Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentien are no longer considered part of the Royal House, although they are still included in the Line of Succession?

[lucien]

Whatever the blabla from certain sides,it will be HM QUEEN Máxima,and nothing else.
There is no discussion,at all,just two nitwits brought the non-issue up,that is all.No-one
wants if different then for Máxima to have the title of QUEEN.Basta.Like we say here:
`A storm in a glass of water`..and not even that..

[Rebafan81]

I have been reading all the press releases regarding the new King and family and have been wondering if anyone else wished that Amalia would be older before she became HRH Princess Catarina-Amalia. I say this only because W-A is not inheriting the throne due to death or severe illness, I think this is a much better way but why couldn't HM waited a couple more years so the girls could at least be on the cusp of young teenagers instead of still being children. I know I am super sensitive regarding children being able to just enjoy their childhood plus I worry with all the added responsibilities for the new King and Queen, the 3 little beautiful Princess will be spending a lot less time with their parents, Princess Ariane is still such a young little girl, please don't take this as a knock on the custom or W-A, it's just my option and wondered what others thought. Thanks in advance for any posting to my thread!!

[NGalitzine]

Originally Posted by Rebafan81

I have been reading all the press releases regarding the new King and family and have been wondering if anyone else wished that Amalia would be older before she became HRH Princess Catarina-Amalia. I say this only because W-A is not inheriting the throne due to death or severe illness, I think this is a much better way but why couldn't HM waited a couple more years so the girls could at least be on the cusp of young teenagers instead of still being children. I know I am super sensitive regarding children being able to just enjoy their childhood plus I worry with all the added responsibilities for the new King and Queen, the 3 little beautiful Princess will be spending a lot less time with their parents, Princess Ariane is still such a young little girl, please don't take this as a knock on the custom or W-A, it's just my option and wondered what others thought. Thanks in advance for any posting to my thread!!

She has been HRH Princess C A since the day she was born. What is going to change in her life just because her father is now king? She already does photoshoots and receives press attention as the eldest daughter of The Prince of Orange. She will still continue going to school. The only real change will be a new palace to call home. It is not like she is suddenly going to take on a full schedule of official engagements. Presumably Queen Beatrix discussed her plans with WA and Maxima before any announcement was made and they must have felt he family was up for the challenges ahead.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Rebafan81

I have been reading all the press releases regarding the new King and family and have been wondering if anyone else wished that Amalia would be older before she became HRH Princess Catarina-Amalia. I say this only because W-A is not inheriting the throne due to death or severe illness, I think this is a much better way but why couldn't HM waited a couple more years so the girls could at least be on the cusp of young teenagers instead of still being children. I know I am super sensitive regarding children being able to just enjoy their childhood plus I worry with all the added responsibilities for the new King and Queen, the 3 little beautiful Princess will be spending a lot less time with their parents, Princess Ariane is still such a young little girl, please don't take this as a knock on the custom or W-A, it's just my option and wondered what others thought. Thanks in advance for any posting to my thread!!

Sorry,Catharina -Amalia became HRH Princess Catharina-Amalia on december 7th 2003,the day she was born.You probably mean Princess of Orange.That's OK,no big differences for her at all untill she grows into her middle to late teens.Just like her grandmother and father in the same situation she can still do whatever she did thus far.No changes,except that she has the title that comes with being Heiress to the Throne in two months time,and a little.Gradually she will accompany her parents or any one of them to a official event,but that will be kept to a minimum.Chances are that they might see their parents more in the new situation then they did before.No worries.At all.Meanwhile she is a girl like any other,with friends and sports she loves,like field hockey etc

[kathia_sophia]

i never got the issue with Amalia bein' this young when becoming HRH The Princess of Orange, seariously, some royals are born Crown Prince/ss. CP Victoria became a crown princess as a toddler and even Moulay Hassan of Morocco (who was born in the same year as Amalia) was born a Crown Prince of Morocco.
even worse than that, Queen Wilhelmina was QUEEN at age 10, imagine if Amalia suddenly became Queen next year?

well, its not like it will dramatically change her, she will have her regular life, friends at school, sports, etc... she will not start right away doing engagements, maybe she'll have one/two per year (with her parents), but really, she would have them anyways even if her grandmother didnt abdicate (look at Elisabeth of Belgium, she had one in 2011 when she went to the opening of a children's hospital and gave her first speech, still shes not a crown princess yet).
what will change is a diferent place of home (though that probably happens to us all at least 1 time in our childhood), will get a new title and her parents will no longer be prince/ss but King and Queen (not that it actually matters since she called, calls and will call them dad and mom).
theres no big diference when you're 2nd or 1st in line to the throne when you're a child, since you wont do any major engagements for a while.
as for responsability, she was born a future Queen, still will be a future Queen when becoming HRH The Princess of Orange, responsability has haunted her since birth, so nothing will dramatically change for her.

[HereditaryPrincess]

I have a question regarding the titles of Prince Constantijin's and Prince Friso's children (of the Netherlands):

*Why don't Prince Constantijin and Prince Friso's children have princely titles? They're grandchildren of Queen Beatrix so I don't understand why they aren't Princes or Princesses. Also, Beatrix's sisters' children were granted the title of Prince/Princess along with the style of Highness.

[Princess Robijn]

Titles in the Netherlands are only automatic for the King (Queen), a former King of Queen, and the heir to the throne, as well as their respective spouses. In order to limit the amount of Princes and Princess, it was decided that the children of Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentien were to be Count or Countess of Orange-Nassau and Jonkheer or Jonkvrouw van Amsberg. This was established at the time of their engagement/wedding.

The children of Princess Margriet were born in a different time. It is not relevant for the children of Constantijn.

If the Queen wanted, she could give them a title, as the title Prince or Princess of Orange-Nassau can be given to all members of the Royal House. This is a personal title. If a Prince, who is a member of the Royal House, looses his rights to be part of the Royal House (i.e. Prince Friso), there is still the option of a personal title of Prince or Princess of Orange-Nassau. It has to be decided within 3 months after loosing membership of the Royal House.