Princess Ingrid Alexandra's confirmation: August 31, 2019

[kathia_sophia]

So no confirmation for a white-tie gala, right? Just the confirmation date, am I right? Can't wait for August to come, I think Ingrid Alexandra will be beautiful.


About the exact date, I think it's a very good date. King Felipe will be on vacation in August, the Spanish Royals always do. So he won't have an excuse not to attend, and if he doesn't attend, I will be very disappointed. Poor girl, she has a godfather that she saw probably once on her life (I recall Crown Princess Victoria's wedding).


EDIT: Also, I was thinking about something. I don't much about Haakon's confirmation, but did any of his royal counterparts attended the evening event? I would love to see all of the "main" royal kids together for once before they all grew into adults.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by ashelen

Yes do you have to go to church and study the bible, In the Danish church I went it was for 2 years the course. I think it is the party the same meaning as the quincianera but without all the big expense , the quincianera is like a wedding so pompous.

My question was about the humanistic way. I was comparing the two as I did understand one 9confirmation in church) but not the other (humanistic confirmation, the final one I compared to the non-religious practice of quincenera).

I understand a confirmation in a church. 2 years of classes in Lutheran churches isn't that much compared to calvinst/reformed churches in which profession of faith typically takes place at the earliest at about 18 years (not everyone takes this step, it really depends on a personal decision - our king was 30 years when he professed his faith) and classes are given from at least 12 years of age . The final year being especially important preparing for 'confirming' your christening and taking full responsibility as a member of the church.

Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY

Very informative explanation in English from The Norwegian Humanist Association, just roll down to the confirmation part and read (link).

Thanks! That's helpful. So, it seems we have to distinguish between the traditional christian confirmation, the humanistic confirmation that tries to imitate the church version but without God being included, so the preparation course is about humanistic values and general ethics as long as you pass the course, your good to go (you don't even have to agree with any of it because they state it is regardless of the parents' or youngsters' beliefs) - both followed by a big party - and a nonfirmation which is just the party without any ceremony at all.

[Muhler]

Thanks for the link, Royal Norway.

Well, I think the concept of a humanist confirmation, sounds a bit... silly to me.

A confirmation is just that. A confirmation in you believing in and adhere to the Christian faith. Less than that is either hypocrisy (to be brutally honest) or a glorified nonfirmation. Or a coming of age-ceremony if you like.

It may catch on, who knows, and fine if people prefer that. But then perhaps it should change its name to something else than a confirmation.

A ceremony where you confirm that you have humanistic ideals... - Yeah, okay.
Because Christians and atheists (who have nonfirmations) don't?
Sorry, I'm in my cynical mood today.

[Countessmeout]

I understand the whole humanist naming celebration. It's just a way to celebrate the birth of a baby. Many cultures gave naming ceremonies anyways. But a humanistic confirmation doesn't make sense. What are you confirming? Confirmation is not about coming of age, but confirming your own dedication to the faith you were born into. It would be liking having a bar mitzvah for a non Jewish boy as a way to celebrate his birthday. Just celebrate the birthday, and reaching a certain age, and don't use the religious context.

Looking forward to the event and learning more. Hopefully all her godparents attend. Surprised if Fred doesn't since the families are so close but hopefully Felipe is able to make it for her.

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Well, anyway, the only reason why most Norwegian youngsters bother to be confirmed today is just for all the money they receive from family and friends at the dinner afterwards. Nothing else!
And if they opt for a humanistic one, then it's just because their parents are atheists and advises them to do so, or because most of their closest friends are doing it.

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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

So no confirmation for a white-tie gala, right? Just the confirmation date, am I right?

And the place for the service, see post 4 & 10 for more information.

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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

Also, I was thinking about something. I don't know much about Haakon's confirmation, but did any of his royal counterparts attended the evening event? I would love to see all of the "main" royal kids together for once before they all grew into adults.

I don't know! Because we only have the photo-gallery from Scanpix (see it in the quotation in post 1), where there are pictures of his 4 foreign Royal godparents: QMII (accompanied by Prince Henrik & Queen Ingrid), KCXVIG (accompanied by Queen Silvia), Prince Carl Bernadotte and Princess Anne.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

EDIT: Also, I was thinking about something. I don't much about Haakon's confirmation, but did any of his royal counterparts attended the evening event? I would love to see all of the "main" royal kids together for once before they all grew into adults.

It would be great if the teenage heirs would all attent (thinking about: Christian, Amalia, Elisabeth and Leonor). Amalia is closest in age to Ingrid-Alexandra and I think they know each other rather well (based on private joined meetings/short vacations), Elisabeth might be a great person to look up to for Leonor (she also seemed a bit shy at first but blossomed into a confident young lady. And Christian seems quite confident himself, even though he is the only male heir of this generation - but he will surely know Ingrid-Alexandra from various previous meetings (including the 'heirs meeting' in Norway not that long ago).

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Somebody

It would be great if the teenage heirs would all attent (thinking about: Christian, Amalia, Elisabeth and Leonor). Amalia is closest in age to Ingrid-Alexandra and I think they know each other rather well (based on private joined meetings/short vacations), Elisabeth might be a great person to look up to for Leonor (she also seemed a bit shy at first but blossomed into a confident young lady. And Christian seems quite confident himself, even though he is the only male heir of this generation - but he will surely know Ingrid-Alexandra from various previous meetings (including the 'heirs meeting' in Norway not that long ago).

Yes, that would be great.
Christian and Ingrid and I'm sure Amalia too know each other well.
Not so sure how well Haakon and Mette-Marit and as such their daughter, know the Belgian and Spanish royals though.

[kathia_sophia]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Yes, that would be great.
Christian and Ingrid and I'm sure Amalia too know each other well.
Not so sure how well Haakon and Mette-Marit and as such their daughter, know the Belgian and Spanish royals though.

Well, I heard that Felipe is a friend of Haakon and Frederik. That's why he was chosen as godfather for one of their children.


We know that Felipe, Letizia and their daughters did private visits to the Netherlands to meet WA and Maxima. So, it's safe to assume that Leonor and Amalia know each other and can speak spanish with each other.
Not sure if Leonor has ever meet Ingrid Alexandra before though.


But if would be so lovely to see all of them together. Not sure it will really happen, but one can dream and hope If it really doesn't happen, we have to wait for their adulthood...

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

I understand the whole humanist naming celebration. It's just a way to celebrate the birth of a baby. Many cultures gave naming ceremonies anyways. But a humanistic confirmation doesn't make sense. What are you confirming? Confirmation is not about coming of age, but confirming your own dedication to the faith you were born into. It would be liking having a bar mitzvah for a non Jewish boy as a way to celebrate his birthday. Just celebrate the birthday, and reaching a certain age, and don't use the religious context.

Looking forward to the event and learning more. Hopefully all her godparents attend. Surprised if Fred doesn't since the families are so close but hopefully Felipe is able to make it for her.

Humanist confirmation>???? What next

[eya]

Princess Ingrid Alexandra with her parents today as she was accompanied by Crown Prince Haakon when walked the last stretch of the old pilgrim route along the coast of 5 counties to Nidaros as part of the preparations for her confirmation on 31 August

https://ap.mnocdn.no/images/c29ee7d1...rop&q=80&w=980
https://ap.mnocdn.no/images/1f16b10e...10&q=80&w=1440

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/V...l-Nidarosdomen

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by carlota

wow, they really announced that with a lot of anticipation! i wonder who the godparents for the confirmation will be - is it likely the same as the christening ones?

The godparents chosen at baptism are the godparents for life.

New / additional ones are not selected for Confirmation.

I-A is blossoming into beauty, just like her Belgian counterpart Elisabeth.

ETA: Confirmation is a religious Sacrament instituted by the Apostles. How does one transform it into some type of non religious ceremony? What is the point of that? Why bother at all if you are not religious?

Even a quinceanera is NOT non religious. It includes a religious ceremony(Mass)in a church presided over by a priest, followed by a big party

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

Confirmation is not about coming of age,

According to Scandinavian tradition confirmation is about coming of age. It's a celebration that you're old enough to confirm that you adhere to the faith that your parents had you baptised in. Confirmation was traditionally the moment when you reached adulthood.
I've never heard of nonfirmations in Sweden, but I've been to a few in Denmark where, as Muhler said, it's all about celebrating that you've reached that certain age and the gifts. Lots of gifts. Confirmations themselves seems to have a much bigger significance in Denmark (and I imagine in Norway) than in Sweden.

[Muhler]

That's correct.

The confirmation is a big thing in DK, and I assume in Norway as well.
Traditionally it was also the official end of the childhood. For the boys visually symbolized by no longer wearing short pants but "adult" full length pants.
It was also around this age most left school and started an apprenticeship or left home for domestic service or went to sea or simply started working as a menial worker.
Some, the most qualified, went on for another three years in a higher level of school, in preparation for high school or business school.

This ended around 1960 or so, but it's still a big occasion today, although the religious significance has taken second place, if it even has a place at all.
My own children opted for nonfirmations, so they were celebrated by family and friends - and showered with gifts, the spoiled little critters.
But apart from that there was no change in their status, as there was beforehand.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by JR76

According to Scandinavian tradition confirmation is about coming of age. It's a celebration that you're old enough to confirm that you adhere to the faith that your parents had you baptised in. Confirmation was traditionally the moment when you reached adulthood.
I've never heard of nonfirmations in Sweden, but I've been to a few in Denmark where, as Muhler said, it's all about celebrating that you've reached that certain age and the gifts. Lots of gifts. Confirmations themselves seems to have a much bigger significance in Denmark (and I imagine in Norway) than in Sweden.

It is the same here in Germany. And after you had your confirmation you have been ablle to became a godpaarent.

As for a non religous ceremony in the German Democratic Republic there used to be a Jugendweihe an staat ceremony.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by kathia_sophia

So no confirmation for a white-tie gala, right? Just the confirmation date, am I right? Can't wait for August to come, I think Ingrid Alexandra will be beautiful.


About the exact date, I think it's a very good date. King Felipe will be on vacation in August, the Spanish Royals always do. So he won't have an excuse not to attend, and if he doesn't attend, I will be very disappointed. Poor girl, she has a godfather that she saw probably once on her life (I recall Crown Princess Victoria's wedding).


EDIT: Also, I was thinking about something. I don't much about Haakon's confirmation, but did any of his royal counterparts attended the evening event? I would love to see all of the "main" royal kids together for once before they all grew into adults.

Me too. Hope he brings the whole family to an outing. I could be wrong but I haven't seen Leonor and Sofia brushing shoulders with other royal children. This makes me excited. It will be fun for the royal kids.

[CyrilVladisla]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It are the same godparents you don't geed new ones at a confirmation. Lets hope this time all of them will attend. At her christening both Felipe and Frederike where absent.
It will probably be a big affair as at Haakon and Märtha Louise's confirmations there was also a white tie Gala in the evening.

I thought that in the Norwegian Church there had to be new people to be the Confirmation sponsors.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

I thought that in the Norwegian Church there had to be new people to be the Confirmation sponsors.

I don't think so because on the bulletin from the official website of the Royal House of Norway, only the names of the her godparents from christening were mentioned. No more no less.

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.h...193&sek=113027

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Originally Posted by eya

Princess Ingrid Alexandra with her parents today as she was accompanied by Crown Prince Haakon when walked the last stretch of the old pilgrim route along the coast of 5 counties to Nidaros as part of the preparations for her confirmation on 31 August

https://ap.mnocdn.no/images/c29ee7d1...rop&q=80&w=980
https://ap.mnocdn.no/images/1f16b10e...10&q=80&w=1440

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/V...l-Nidarosdomen

Thanks!

Preses of the Norwegian Bishops' Conference, the 69-year-old bishop, Helga Haugland Byfuglien (English Wikipedia article - link), said this to NRK on Saturday:
(BTW: One can see her to the left in the first photo, while the woman to the right is Ragnhild Jepsen, Dean of Nidaros Cathedral.)

''They wanted this tour to Nidaros to be part of The Princess' preparations for the confirmation later this summer. The idea of The RF was that The Princess should experience walking as the pilgrims did, looking down towards Nidaros (on her way down to Nidaros Cathedral, she means) and arriving here today with the family to get to know this very special church and holy place.''

Read about the pilgrim route in English here: 1 - 2.

And to those who wonder about the name Nidaros:
1. Was the medieval name of Trondheim when it was the capital of Norway's first Christian Kings.
2. And again from January 1st, 1930. But after widespread opposition to the name, it was restored back to Trondheim by The Storting on March 6th, 1931.
3. Is the name of the modern Lutheran diocese of Trondheim (''The Diocese of Nidaros'') since the Protestant Reformation in 1537, which ended ''The Roman Catholic Diocese of Nidaros'' (established in 1068 and elevated to Archdiocese in 1152).

Read more in this English Wikipedia article (link).

Byfuglien also said she was looking forward to showing The Princess around the Cathedral, which she did when the latter arrived there with The Crown Prince after having walked for four hours. The Crown Princess OTOH was already present, waiting for them.

''We will walk together (around Cathedral, she means) and have stops at important points such as the baptismal font, the octagon and the Sámi altar. Along the way, we will talk and tell her about this church and how our churches are organized. I am open to questions and I hope it will be exciting and educational.''


And yesterday, The CP-family attended a service there after having spent the night at the state-owned Royal residence *Stiftsgården* in Trondheim (English RH-article about the place - link).
Post by Iceflower in the ''Current Events'' thread (link).

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About Nidaros Cathedral (Nidarosdomen), the world’s northernmost medieval cathedral and Norway’s national sanctuary:

Lots of information in English here at the Cathedral's own website, where one can see shorts films, including one from the air (link).

English Wikipedia article (link).

Photos:

Outside: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4

From the Nave looking into the Choir (link).

The Choir: 1 - 2

The Nave: 1 - 2

Yes, it's a gothic masterpiece and, in my Norwegian opinion, without doubt the most impressive church-building in The North. And it isn't just Norwegian experts/people who are saying it, because I've heard both Danish/Swedish experts in architecture and tourists say the same thing.
So yes, a building we in the Nordic countries should be really, really proud of.

The Cathedral's modern connection with Norway's own independent Royal Family:
*The coronation of King Haakon VII and Queen Maud in 1906.
*The Consecration of King Olav V in 1958.
*The Consecration of King Harald V and Queen Sonja in 1991.
*And celebratory events such as the wedding of Princess Märtha Louise and Ari Behn in 2002 and The Regent-Couple's Consecration-Jubilee (25th Anniversary) in 2016.

English RH-article on coronations/consecrations (link):

[...] Article 12 of the Norwegian Constitution of 1814 established that the King was to be crowned and anointed in Nidaros Cathedral.

[...]

In 1908 the Article on coronation was stricken from the Constitution as the coronation ceremony came to be regarded as undemocratic and archaic. The Storting voted by a large majority to repeal the Article.

Thus, when King Haakon VII died in 1957, there was no basis in law for a coronation in Nidaros Cathedral. This did not, however, mean that there was any prohibition against holding such a ceremony in Nidaros Cathedral, if the new King so desired.

King Olav V possessed profound historical insight and was imbued with a strong sense of tradition. Therefore, he expressed a personal desire to be consecrated in Nidaros Cathedral to receive God's blessing upon his royal office. In his decision to be consecrated, King Olav V laid the foundation for the continuation of a tradition with roots going back to the hailing by the Øreting assembly and the coronations of the Norwegian kings from 1163 to 1906.

On 23 June 1991, King Harald V and Queen Sonja continued the consecration tradition in a ceremony also held in Nidaros Cathedral. [...]

Will the future King Haakon VIII also chose to be consecrated? Well, he will be the first monarch since the independence in 1905 to not be head of the church upon his accession, but the rumours are that he will go through with it anyway.

Why? Probably due to:
1. Tradition.
2. CP MM's ''strong'' personal Christian faith (which is also most likely why The Crown Prince and Ingrid went out on their little pilgrim-tour).

BTW: Read about how it affected The RF when The Church of Norway ceased to be the state-church in post 12 & 20.

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Originally Posted by JR76

Confirmations themselves seems to have a much bigger significance in Denmark (and I imagine in Norway) than in Sweden.

Originally Posted by Muhler

The confirmation is a big thing in DK, and I assume in Norway as well.

Yes, and whether one is confirmed in The Norwegian Church (which a record-low 56% chose to do in 2018), in a humanistic way (which a record-high 18% opted for, read about how it's done in post 20) or in another way (as the rest did, i.e. in another church or in a nonfirmation), it's celebrated with a big celebratory dinner for family/friends (including grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, etc) where one is given a LOT of money.
And it's VERY common to use *bunad* (English Wikipedia article - link) if you're female and suit if you're male.

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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla

I thought that in the Norwegian Church there had to be new people to be the Confirmation sponsors.

No, in The Church of Norway, the godparents don't even have a role when it comes to confirmations.

[Muhler]

Thanks, Royal Norway.

Which means we can expect to see Ingrid in a bunad.
Interesting the boys don't wear the regional/national costume, given the Norwegian fondness for traditional attire on festive occasions.

And that is a seriously beautiful cathedral, inside and out!
Someone clearly went to England and France and had a look around there, or they got a French or English master-builder to oversee the whole thing.
That style is markedly different from Danish (and I believe Swedish as well) cathedrals.
But Norway was still a fully independent kingdom when Nidaros Cathedral was build.

ADDED:
I cannot resist adding this beautiful photo of the cathedral: https://media2.trover.com/T/5b22c767...w_large_4x.jpg

[Ista]

What an incredible photo, Muhler. You can definitely see the non-Norway elements, and yet, there is a distinct flavor of something other than England, France or Germany. Lovely.

And Ingrid Alexandra in a bunad is something to look forward to seeing.