The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #281  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:18 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,901
Been away all weekend and just catching up. Thanks for the photos and clips

IA looked so grown up and composed. Very well spoken for her speech.

Her family looks so happy. Happy Marius was there. Bestefar was sure in a good mood.

Glad to see her with all of her godparents. So happy Felipe made it.


Nice mix of confirmation gifts. I love the bracelet from Felipe.
Reply With Quote
  #282  
Old 09-02-2019, 08:43 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biri View Post
But Marius is Norwegian, not Dutch.
There are some similarities between the Dutch and scandinavian languages, 'beste' is an interesting anomaly.
Reply With Quote
  #283  
Old 09-02-2019, 10:15 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,474
Beste in this context means grand as in grandmother/bestemor and grandfather/bestefar. Marius calling his step-grandparents Bestesonja and Besteharald is really sweet.
Reply With Quote
  #284  
Old 09-03-2019, 12:21 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,901
Makes sense. Bestemor literally means best-mother, bestefar best father. Referring to of an older generation. Sonja and Harald are not parents of his mom or dad so BestSonja and BestHarald are just a sweet version of grandma and grandpa for his step-grandparents. I find it endearing.
Reply With Quote
  #285  
Old 09-03-2019, 07:01 AM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 3,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I am sure the Princess will be happy, it ia a total different gift than these from uncle Erling and from Don Felipe. Gifts for a lifetime. Why no Danish design: Bang & Olufsen speakers?
There seems to be no end to the criticism of the Danes Aside from the fact that Soundboks is a Danish brand (and renowned within its field), have you considered that Ingrid might've wished for a loudspeaker? At least when I was confirmed, my guests requested a wishlist from which they could operate in terms of gifts and I can imagine Ingrid has at least hinted at some things she'd like.
__________________
"Hope is like the sun. If you only believe it when you see it you'll never make it through the night."
Our Princess

Reply With Quote
  #286  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:45 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lalala, Spain
Posts: 448
Vanity Fair Spain spoke to the Asturian jewelers Quirós and like lula suspected they confirmed they made the bracelet. They said that Casa Real contacted them two months before the confirmation and asked for different designs for a modern girl, nothing old-fashioned and they were pretty sure they wanted a bracelet. They settled on this design that according to Quirós has a classical line but a lot of colour and is attractive to their younger clients. It was handmade in Oviedo with sapphires of different colours and gold-plated sterling silver.

(Like lula said, they also made the insignia the Princess of Asturias received last year in Covadonga)

https://www.abc.es/estilo/gente/abci...9_noticia.html
Reply With Quote
  #287  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:27 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,926
Summary of article in Billed Bladet #36, 2019.
Written by Marianne Singer who was dispatched up north to Norway.

I hope you have some tissue within reach, because you are gonna need them!

But first a general summary of what happened.
The three Danish guests, Victoria and King Felipe lived privately with Haakon and Mette-Marit and spend the night at their home at Skaugum.

The official photos were taken shortly before the family went to church for the confirmation. King Harald and Haakon both wore the army gala uniform.
King Felipe and Frederik both wore the navy gala uniforms of their countries.

During the confirmation the godparents of Ingrid lit candles for her. Not sure if it's a Norwegian tradition. In Denmark the godparents have no role, exect being expected to attend the confirmation.

Mary and Christian were seated next to Märtha Louise's three daughters: Emma Tallulah, Isadora and Maud Angelica.

BB mentions that Shaman Durek was unable to attend, with no further comments.
However, during the confirmation Märtha Louse read out the Gospel of Love by Paul (Paulus in central and northern Europe.) The one about love, faith and hope. The greatest of these being love.

The exotic looking lady who vividly said a poem was the actress Evelyn Rasmussen Osazuwa, who performed the slam-poetry: "I am sick" that was very much about the environment.

The environment was also on the mind of Princess Ingrid in a form a sheet laid on each chair with the words: "When this piece of paper is put in the ground, there will in time grow various colorful summer-flowers. I hope that will be a fine memory and a reminder that it is only we, who can look after our Earth."

During the ceremony Ingrid read the prayer of Frans of Assisis.

After the ceremony there was an appearance on the balcony of the palace before it was time fro the lunch with 159 guests.
And here a number of speeches were made. Including one by Mette.Marit's older brother, Espen Høiby.

King Harald say to his granddaughter: "When you were born, a new era in our country's history began. Norge had not had a female heir since Queen Margrethe I ruled the country as part of the Kalmar Union in the 1300's. And with the changed law of 1990 - which meant the firstborn becomes the heir - a deed was destined for you from the first time you opened your eyes. It's really good to know that the Norwegian Monarch can also be a woman!"

Ingrid confidently gave a speech to her family:
"I will first and foremost thank especially the closest family. You have given me a safe upbringing with love, care and funny experiences. I am aware that I am very fortunate."
She then thanked her parents for making her then one she is today. And she thanked her "the most sweet and best brothers in the world - sometimes."
The family dogs Milly and Muffins.
Her grandfather for making her laugh.
Her farmor, Sonja, for her wise words, the art "and for all the evenings you have caressed me on the arm and told goodnight-stories."
And her mormor, Marit Tjessem for baking with Ingrid and her siblings and looking after them when their parents were traveling.

Mette-Marit and Haakon gave a communal speech, where Mette-Marit a few times teared up.
Mette-Marit started by saying: "My dear Ingrid..." Then had to pause for a few seconds. "Imagine having been so lucky to be your mother. That has been a great gift in my life.
Dear Ingrid, when you came into the world you looked so much like your papa that I could hardly tell the difference. Your big dark-brown eyes, it was like looking into eternity. These eyes that still sparkle and that doesn't let of the one they are looking at."

They remembered the day Ingrid came home from the maternity ward: "At home mormor and Marius waited. Marius was a little interested in the newly arrived little-sister, but of course mostly preoccupied by the ambulance that had driven into his courtyard.
When you came up into the apartment, Ingrid, a new sort of calm descended. Everything sort of fell a little more into place, when you came.
The day you were born and we came home from the hospital we all sat in the couch. Marius, mormor, grandfather, grandmother, your mother in I. You were lying with your mother and I read aloud the last two chapters from the book we read to Marius: The Brothers Lionheart. It was a good start in life."

It became very emotional when Mette Marit told about a note she one day got from her daughter:
"Dear mother. I'd like to apologize to you. I love you. More than my life. Greetings Ingrid.
Today it's no longer long declarations of love on pieces of paper. But extra good hugs, when you can tell we need it.
Dear Ingrid, you are an unusual wise person. The force you have had within you since the day you came into the world is not grated to all. We have never been in doubt that you will walk up straight through the world." Then giving her daughter a big hug and a kiss.

You can find the article here: https://app.box.com/s/59syntyohy4gwfk0m9xp26ytavo604ag
Reply With Quote
  #288  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:43 PM
Ista's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: the West, United States
Posts: 4,279
Thank you, Muhler for translating.

Yes, very emotional: warm, loving and real. It sounds like a beautiful and meaningful day, just exactly what a confirmation day should be. I'm very happy for Ingrid and for her family.
Reply With Quote
  #289  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:14 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The godparents lighting candles is part of the Christian tradition observed by many different churches/ denominations. The godparent lights the candle to represent the gift of the light of Christ to the child. I am surprised you don't do it in the Church of Denmark.
I won't say it isn't done somewhere in DK, I have just never experienced it myself, nor heard of it.

It's pretty much a standard service, with a communal blessing and reaffirmation of the creed of faith and a sermon aimed at the confirmands.
Sometimes the blessing and affirmation is individual and then the relatives of the individual child stand up.

At my own confirmation "Born to be Alive" was played. The priest believed that was appropriate.

This one:
Reply With Quote
  #290  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:24 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 716
What exactly happens during a Lutheran confirmation ceremony? My mom was baptized and confirmed and married my dad (who grew up in the United Church of Canada) in the Catholic Church, but has since lapsed.
Reply With Quote
  #291  
Old 09-05-2019, 05:26 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Summary of article in Billed Bladet #36, 2019.
Written by Marianne Singer who was dispatched up north to Norway.

I hope you have some tissue within reach, because you are gonna need them!

But first a general summary of what happened.
The three Danish guests, Victoria and King Felipe lived privately with Haakon and Mette-Marit and spend the night at their home at Skaugum.

The official photos were taken shortly before the family went to church for the confirmation. King Harald and Haakon both wore the army gala uniform.
King Felipe and Frederik both wore the navy gala uniforms of their countries.

During the confirmation the godparents of Ingrid lit candles for her. Not sure if it's a Norwegian tradition. In Denmark the godparents have no role, exect being expected to attend the confirmation.

Mary and Christian were seated next to Märtha Louise's three daughters: Emma Tallulah, Isadora and Maud Angelica.

BB mentions that Shaman Durek was unable to attend, with no further comments.
However, during the confirmation Märtha Louse read out the Gospel of Love by Paul (Paulus in central and northern Europe.) The one about love, faith and hope. The greatest of these being love.

The exotic looking lady who vividly said a poem was the actress Evelyn Rasmussen Osazuwa, who performed the slam-poetry: "I am sick" that was very much about the environment.

The environment was also on the mind of Princess Ingrid in a form a sheet laid on each chair with the words: "When this piece of paper is put in the ground, there will in time grow various colorful summer-flowers. I hope that will be a fine memory and a reminder that it is only we, who can look after our Earth."

During the ceremony Ingrid read the prayer of Frans of Assisis.

After the ceremony there was an appearance on the balcony of the palace before it was time fro the lunch with 159 guests.
And here a number of speeches were made. Including one by Mette.Marit's older brother, Espen Høiby.

King Harald say to his granddaughter: "When you were born, a new era in our country's history began. Norge had not had a female heir since Queen Margrethe I ruled the country as part of the Kalmar Union in the 1300's. And with the changed law of 1990 - which meant the firstborn becomes the heir - a deed was destined for you from the first time you opened your eyes. It's really good to know that the Norwegian Monarch can also be a woman!"

Ingrid confidently gave a speech to her family:
"I will first and foremost thank especially the closest family. You have given me a safe upbringing with love, care and funny experiences. I am aware that I am very fortunate."
She then thanked her parents for making her then one she is today. And she thanked her "the most sweet and best brothers in the world - sometimes."
The family dogs Milly and Muffins.
Her grandfather for making her laugh.
Her farmor, Sonja, for her wise words, the art "and for all the evenings you have caressed me on the arm and told goodnight-stories."
And her mormor, Marit Tjessem for baking with Ingrid and her siblings and looking after them when their parents were traveling.

Mette-Marit and Haakon gave a communal speech, where Mette-Marit a few times teared up.
Mette-Marit started by saying: "My dear Ingrid..." Then had to pause for a few seconds. "Imagine having been so lucky to be your mother. That has been a great gift in my life.
Dear Ingrid, when you came into the world you looked so much like your papa that I could hardly tell the difference. Your big dark-brown eyes, it was like looking into eternity. These eyes that still sparkle and that doesn't let of the one they are looking at."

They remembered the day Ingrid came home from the maternity ward: "At home mormor and Marius waited. Marius was a little interested in the newly arrived little-sister, but of course mostly preoccupied by the ambulance that had driven into his courtyard.
When you came up into the apartment, Ingrid, a new sort of calm descended. Everything sort of fell a little more into place, when you came.
The day you were born and we came home from the hospital we all sat in the couch. Marius, mormor, grandfather, grandmother, your mother in I. You were lying with your mother and I read aloud the last two chapters from the book we read to Marius: The Brothers Lionheart. It was a good start in life."

It became very emotional when Mette Marit told about a note she one day got from her daughter:
"Dear mother. I'd like to apologize to you. I love you. More than my life. Greetings Ingrid.
Today it's no longer long declarations of love on pieces of paper. But extra good hugs, when you can tell we need it.
Dear Ingrid, you are an unusual wise person. The force you have had within you since the day you came into the world is not grated to all. We have never been in doubt that you will walk up straight through the world." Then giving her daughter a big hug and a kiss.

You can find the article here: https://app.box.com/s/59syntyohy4gwfk0m9xp26ytavo604ag

What are they saying during the video of the ceremony when Ingrid is kneeling at the altar with their hands on her head?
Reply With Quote
  #292  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:27 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 8,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Question: Does anyone know who 'Karen' is? Both Maud (Behn) and Karen are referred to in 2 of the speeches, so I wonder whether she might not only be a close friend but also a (maternal) cousin (daughter of Espen?) - as Mette Marit mentions that both have known her from birth.

Another interesting part is that it's clear that next to her parents her maternal grandmother has played an important part in her life; taking care of them when Haakon and Mette Marit were gone for royal duties.
Thanks to 'Koningin Maxima' on the Dutch TRF (AllRoyalThings) I can share that Karen is NOT a daughter of Espen. Nor does she seem to be any of the other known cousins. So, it seems likely that she is her best friend (either from the neighborhood or a daughter of her parents' friends), since Ingrid-Alexandra and Karen not only know each other 'from birth' but als took part in some activities in preparation for their confirmation together.

Part of I-A's speech:
Quote:
Thank you so much to the Bishop for the meaningful confirmation service here today – and for allowing Karen and me to contribute to the church services at Tøyen Church.
Reply With Quote
  #293  
Old 09-07-2019, 11:45 AM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, Norway
Posts: 3,826
Thanks to everyone who have posted videos, articles and photos!

Especially to Muhler for scanning the stuff from BB, so I don't need to buy it myself! LOL.

--------------------

Well, a bit more time now, so let's first go through the service and some questions:

It was led by The Preses of the Norwegian Bishops' Conference, Bishop Helga Haugland Byfuglien (English Wikipedia article - link), who has now announced that she is retiring; and The Bishop of Oslo, Kari Veiteberg (English Wikipedia article - link), who held the sermon. There she spoke directly to The Princess, praising her for her fine qualities including her commitment to the environment, etc, etc.
Vicar Karoline Astrup from Asker Church congregation (covering Asker municipality, where Skaugum is situated and where The Princess received her confirmation instructions) also participated.

Arrivals:
*The guests, with the exception of the royals, walked in via the main gate to the palace.
*The blonde woman who led the procession consisting of Marit Tjessem, The Danish CP-Family, CP Victoria and King Felipe into the chapel was Lord Chamberlain, Gry Mølleskog (in the position since 2015, when she became the world's first female court-chief).
*The second procession, with the NRF, was led by Bishop Byfuglien, while The Princess herself arrived with Bishop Veiteberg to the music of Antonio Vivaldi (English Wikipedia article - link).
(The recessional music was by George Frideric Handel, English Wikipedia article - link).

Then it was time to sing the hymn by the Lutheran priest and the foremost Norwegian poet of his generation, Petter Dass (English Wikipedia article - link), ''Herre Gud, ditt dyre navn og ære'' (Name in English: ''Mighty Lord, to thy dear name be given'').
Written in 1698, released in 1715.

The two other hymns were:
*''Vi rekker våre hender frem'' (called in English, ''We raise our hands to you, O Lord''). Written in 1975 by Svein Ellingsen (English Wikipedia article - link). He is referred to in Norway as ''The Nordic countries' greatest living hymnist.''
*''Deg å få skode'' (the 1978 Norwegian translated version of ''Be Thou My Vision,'' English Wikipedia article - link).

Watch all three of them at 11:30, 54:55 and 1:02:25 in the VG-video a bit down in the post.

Music: The Oslo Cathedral Choir (English information from their own website - link) stood for most of the singing; Elise Båtnes (English Wikipedia article - link) played the violin; while head-organist since 1994 at Oslo Cathedral, Kåre Nordstoga (English Wikipedia article - link) played...the organ of course.

The two female performers: Writes about them in the below post, where I answer questions.

Texts:
*Sametingspresident (Sámi-Parliament-President) Aili Keskitalo read Psalm 21 in a new Sámi-translation, with guests following along in Norwegian in the programme.
*Princess Märtha Louise (as Muhler mentioned in post 290) read from 1 Corinthians: "But the greatest of these is love.''
*Princess Ingrid Alexandra read the Prayer of Saint Francis (also mentioned in the BB-translation in Muhler's post).

And to those who want to know more about The Palace Chapel, read the English RH-article I posted in post 164 on the confirmation-day.

--------------------

4-hour VG-video without commentary (link).

--------------------

BTW: The official photos were taken in The White Drawing Room on the palace's first floor by the NTB-scanpix photographer, Lise Åserud (who is no stranger to royal-photographing). And yes, in the same room as during the confirmations of Märtha and Haakon in 1986 and 1988 (see post 156, where I go through previous royal confirmations in Norway).
And as Muhler wrote, they were taken before the service.

And history-mad as I am, these are without a doubt my two favourites.

The 82-year-old Norwegian monarch with his two heirs: 1 - 2
__________________
Norwegians are girls who love girls, boys who love boys, and girls and boys who love each other. King Harald V speaking in 2016.
Reply With Quote
  #294  
Old 09-07-2019, 11:46 AM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, Norway
Posts: 3,826
Not space to answer questions in the above post, so let's continue here:

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I believe the first hymn also has a Danish version? I remember it from the movie Babette's Feast (Babettes gæstebud) which was based on a story of Karen Blixen. Originally the story takes place in Norway but in the movie in Jutland, Denmark.
Yes, it is actually translated into both Danish, Swedish, Icelandic, Faroese, German and English (writes a bit more about who wrote it and stuff in the above post).

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I see the princess received a nice gift from Erling Lorenzen, the widower of the late Princess Ragnild. Did any of their children attend the ceremony?
No, they didn't! And that despite the fact that they're all in Norway at the moment (at least they were here a few days ago).
So I think we can say that none of them were invited. - But why weren't they?
1. They have grown up in Brazil, never lived in Norway for longer periods - and (the two oldest) are 19 and 16 years older than The Crown Prince. - And although they have been visiting each other once in a while, they are therefore not what I would describe as particularly ''close.''
2. The Palace Chapel is (as you probably noticed in the videos/photos) quite small. So after all the official guests were invited, there wasn't room for most of the other first-cousins either. In fact, only two of about ten from The Crown Princess' side were present (many of which she is said to be pretty close to).
No, not even room for more than one of Princess Astrid's five children, all of whom CP Haakon is said to have a close relationship with (despite the 11, 10 and 8 years-age-difference when it comes to the three oldest).
And to those who might be wondering who this one was? Well, it was The Princess' first-born child, Cathrine Ferner Johansen (born 1962) and her husband, Arild Johansen.
See a translated list of the invited relatives here (link).

And no, they weren't at the luncheon either, where The CP-Couple had chosen to invite some close friends instead. But pretty sure that at least some of the Ferners attended the black-tie dinner at Skaugum.

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
The Crown Princess seemed to be glowing with pride when her daughter walked into the church, and quite rightly so as Ingrid Alexandra seems to be a lovely girl. I believe the siblings of the Crown Princess were seated behind the Danish Crown Princess, her son and the Behn-sisters.
Yes, all three of them! From the left (seen from the altar), Per Høiby (equerry to The King in the periode 1996-1999, born 1962) and his wife, Louise Dedichen; Kristin Høiby (born 1964, CP MM's only sister, who is now divorced); and Espen Høiby (born 1959) and his wife, Renate Jonassen Høiby with their youngest child, daughter Emma (born in 2012).

Perhaps we should go through some of the other guests as well. And since I'm the nerdiest of geeks, I have no problem naming almost all of them. But since that will take a while, let's stick to the four people on the first bench seen to the right from the altar: The President of The Storting (the parliament), Tone Wilhelmsen Trøen and her husband, Per Kristian Trøen; Prime Minister Erna Solberg and her husband, Sindre Finnes.

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I have a question about the service: What was the song about, a young, darker coloured lady sang - I think it was something about health, breathing, the body (that´s at least what my bad norwegian understood...)? I just thought what has this to do with a christian konfirmation.
As Mulher mentioned, that was actress Evelyn Rasmussen Osazuwa (born 1986), who performed the slam-poetry: "Hun er syk'' (''she's sick''), which is mostly about the environment. I.e. the earth (which she refers to as ''she'') being sick from climate-changes, which was a theme of the service (due to Ingrid and rest off the RF's strong commitment to do something about it).

And to those who are wondering, why did Royal Norway write, ''she's sick'' and not ''I am sick,'' which was what Mulher translated from BB? Well, that's because they copied what the court *incorrectly* wrote on The Royal House-website.

BTW, the other performer (she in the blue dress) is Maria Solheim (English Wikipedia article - link), who sang: ''Jeg er i Herrens hender'' (''I am in the Lord’s hands''), which was written by the Lutheran priest, Erling Tobiassen in 1932.

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
And what did the blonde lady-bishop say that shocked the Princess a second and everybody laughed? IA then seemed relieved and smiled, too.
That ''blonde lady-bishop'' is Bishop Veiteberg of Oslo (more information on her in the above post).
She talked about being with Ingrid and one of The Princess' friends in Tøyen church in Oslo, where Ingrid had said to the bishop: ''Spør meg ikke om hvem som blir kastet i brønnen og sånn. Det ble faren min spurt om.''
''Don't ask me who gets thrown in the well and stuff. That, my father was asked about'' (can also be translated to: ''My father was asked about that.'')

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post
What exactly happens during a Lutheran confirmation ceremony? My mom was baptized and confirmed and married my dad (who grew up in the United Church of Canada) in the Catholic Church, but has since lapsed.
Well, if we take Ingrid's confirmation-service, which was quite standard when it comes to Norwegian Lutheran tradition. It consisted of traditional worship with an extra prayer ceremony where the priests asked God to bless and strengthen The Princess through her confirmation.

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahedwards2 View Post
What are they saying during the video of the ceremony when Ingrid is kneeling at the altar with their hands on her head?
Oslo-Bishop Veiteberg (while Asker-Vicar, Karoline Astrup stands in silence) says: ''Barmhjertige skaper og Herre, vi ber deg for Ingrid Alexandra. La henne få vandre i ditt lys og leve sitt liv omsluttet av din kjærlighet.''
''Merciful Creator and Lord, we pray to you for Ingrid Alexandra. Let her walk in your light and live her life surrounded by your love.''

--------------------

Next post (where I will answer more of the questions here) would be about the luncheon and TV-coverage, while the one after that will be about Ingrid's bunad (and those of The Queen, The Crown Princess and Princess Märtha Louise).
__________________
Norwegians are girls who love girls, boys who love boys, and girls and boys who love each other. King Harald V speaking in 2016.
Reply With Quote
  #295  
Old 09-08-2019, 04:59 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 8,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
As Mulher mentioned, that was actress Evelyn Rasmussen Osazuwa (born 1986), who performed the slam-poetry: "Hun er syk'' (''she's sick''), which is mostly about the environment. I.e. the earth (which she refers to as ''she'') being sick from climate-changes, which was a theme of the service (due to Ingrid and rest off the RF's strong commitment to do something about it).

--------------------

That ''blonde lady-bishop'' is Bishop Veiteberg of Oslo (more information on her in the above post).
She talked about being with Ingrid and one of The Princess' friends in Tøyen church in Oslo, where Ingrid had said to the bishop: ''Spør meg ikke om hvem som blir kastet i brønnen og sånn. Det ble faren min spurt om.''
''Don't ask me who gets thrown in the well and stuff. That, my father was asked about'' (can also be translated to: ''My father was asked about that.'')

--------------------
So, if I understand it correctly, previously candidates (assuming it wasn't just Haakon) were asked some Bible-related questions but Ingrid-Alexandra thought that was irrelevant for her confirmation in the Lutheran church? She instead opted for a personal interest (the environment) that has little if anything to do with being confirmed in the Lutheran church (this is not to say that the Bible doesn't talk about taking care for the world God created but it isn't the principal message) and everyone went along with it?

So, if the above is a correct interpretation, it was indeed more of a coming of age event - which the princess completely owned (!) - than an introduction to the church and Christian faith (which it formally was).
Reply With Quote
  #296  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:21 PM
JR76's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 4,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
So, if I understand it correctly, previously candidates (assuming it wasn't just Haakon) were asked some Bible-related questions but Ingrid-Alexandra thought that was irrelevant for her confirmation in the Lutheran church? She instead opted for a personal interest (the environment) that has little if anything to do with being confirmed in the Lutheran church (this is not to say that the Bible doesn't talk about taking care for the world God created but it isn't the principal message) and everyone went along with it?

So, if the above is a correct interpretation, it was indeed more of a coming of age event - which the princess completely owned (!) - than an introduction to the church and Christian faith (which it formally was).
If the Church of Norway is anything like the Church of Sweden it, as a quite conservative Lutheran church, used to put the main emphasis on learning Luther's Small Catechism from cover to cover for the confirmation. That has today been replaced with focusing on the message of Christ itself. Nature, and a person's place in nature, is often used as a metaphor for God's creation in Scandinavia so I don't feel that it's that strange of a theme for a confirmation.
The anguish of giving the wrong answer is an ever returning theme in many works of litterature from back in the day and I remember my elderly relatives being quite shocked over the change in ceremony during my confirmation. Instead of us having to quote the catechism's interpretations on the Ten commandments we did a musical play about the feeding of the 5000.
Reply With Quote
  #297  
Old 09-09-2019, 01:40 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,926
The confirmation here in Scandinavia, perhaps even more in DK than in Sweden, and certainly more than in Norway, is very much a coming-of-age rite.

Traditionally the confirmation was a transformation process, after which the confirmand, entered the ranks of adults. Not legally but in regards to responsibilities.
It was traditionally visually marked in the sense that the boys no longer wore shorts but pants and the girls now wore full length dresses.
It was also the time when the vast majority left school and for the boys took on a full time job or entered an apprenticeship and the girls often left home to enter a few years of domestic service or took a job in a shop or a factory.
There is a lot of emphasis in the speeches (and songs!) at a confirmation hitting home the fact that you are now an adult/have come of age.

And when I listened to older relatives talking about their confirmation, they rarely spoke about the church and the religious aspects, it was the transformation from child to young adult that was first and foremost in their minds.

There is less of such a feeling of transformation today though, because at 14/15 they still have a couple of years left at school, before it's time for high school or something similar and because the confirmand may very likely not move away from home until around 20.
Reply With Quote
  #298  
Old 09-11-2019, 10:50 AM
ROYAL NORWAY's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: somewhere, Norway
Posts: 3,826
I logged in now to do what I promised at the end of post 297 on Saturday (yes, to write about the luncheon and TV-coverage, and answer questions about it). But have now decided to focus on the latest questions from ''Somebody'' instead:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
As Mulher mentioned, that was actress Evelyn Rasmussen Osazuwa (born 1986), who performed the slam-poetry: "Hun er syk'' (''she's sick''), which is mostly about the environment. I.e. the earth (which she refers to as ''she'') being sick from climate-changes, which was a theme of the service (due to Ingrid and rest off the RF's strong commitment to do something about it).

--------------------

That ''blonde lady-bishop'' is Bishop Veiteberg of Oslo (more information on her in the above post).
She talked about being with Ingrid and one of The Princess' friends in Tøyen church in Oslo, where Ingrid had said to the bishop: ''Spør meg ikke om hvem som blir kastet i brønnen og sånn. Det ble faren min spurt om.''
''Don't ask me who gets thrown in the well and stuff. That, my father was asked about'' (can also be translated to: ''My father was asked about that.'')
So, if I understand it correctly, previously candidates (assuming it wasn't just Haakon) were asked some Bible-related questions but Ingrid-Alexandra thought that was irrelevant for her confirmation in the Lutheran church? She instead opted for a personal interest (the environment) that has little if anything to do with being confirmed in the Lutheran church (this is not to say that the Bible doesn't talk about taking care for the world God created but it isn't the principal message) and everyone went along with it?

So, if the above is a correct interpretation, it was indeed more of a coming of age event - which the princess completely owned (!) - than an introduction to the church and Christian faith (which it formally was).
You have now responded to two replies from my post that have nothing to do with each other.

Reply 1: The RF wanted to focus on the environment because this is something both they and the Church of Norway care about. But that doesn't mean it was at the expense of Bible-related teaching.

Reply 2: Wartenberg7 wanted to know what Bishop Veiteberg said that ''shocked The Princess a second'' and made everyone laugh. I then explained the stuff you quoted above. (Yes, I chose to double-quote the post, so people could see what I had written.)

And let's translate what the bishop went on to say: Ingrid had continued: ''Men spør meg gjerne om noe skikkelig vanskelig!''
''But feel free to ask me something really difficult!" (Indicating that what her father was asked about back in 1988 wasn't difficult enough. LOL. And yes, I love her more and more!)
The bishop then said: ''Kjære konfirmant, dessverre kommer det ingen vanskelige spørsmål fra meg. Jeg vil heller si: Hold fram med å stille spørsmål om det som er viktig og vanskeleg! Og finn gjerne fram til de voksenpersonene, eller de vennene, som har evne og klokskap til å romme de. Som ser deg og vil deg vel.''
''Dear Confirmand, *Unfortunately* (be aware that this word was used ironically), there will come no difficult questions from me. I'd rather say: Keep asking questions about what's important and difficult! And feel free to find those adults, or friends, who have the ability and wisdom to accommodate them. Who sees you and wants you well.'' (Yes, I could have written ''answer'' instead of ''accommodate,'' but not what Veiteberg said.)

BTW: To those wondering why the then Prince Haakon had to answer questions and not Princess Ingrid?
Well, when The Crown Prince was confirmed, he had to attend a so-called ''overhøringsgudstjeneste'' (''overhearing-service'') in Asker Church some days prior to the day itself, where he and the other confirmands were questioned by the priest. But that was changed in the 1990s, so it's not something one does today.

Hope this cleared it up for you (for the poster ''Somebody,'' I mean)!

--------------------

And let's stay with the service because we just have to talk a bit about the badass of badasses. Yes, the quite scary and indomitable 87-year-old Princess Astrid!

Here is a quote from post 74 where I replied to something Muhler had written about Durek meeting QMII:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
However, his biggest challenge will be the old-schooled and short-tempered Princess Astrid, who makes Margrethe look like a lightweighter by comparison. - And who will most likely eat him alive!
But she will, of course, not do it in public. No, she'll wait to she has him on her own, and he will probably be followed by a good dessert. LOL.

And if we should be a bit serious here: The King has told in interviews (the last time was around her 85th Birthday in 2017) that she still yells at him, because for her, he will always be the little brother! And she's not afraid to take on The Crown Prince either (according to himself).
BTW: The King told a funny story in his speech on her 80th Birthday-dinner in 2012 about some courtiers who had implied to him that she seemed a bit irritated with them.
No, he had said, ''she can't have been that, because then we had noticed it.'' LOL.
But now to what I wanted to say: Look at the faces of Princess Ingrid, The Crown Princess and The Queen (yes, especially hers) after The Princess' crutches (which she has been using regularly since the 1980s, due to a bone-condition) fall to the floor at 11:18 in the VG-video in post 296.

Yes, thank God she didn't see it, I say!

--------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The confirmation here in Scandinavia, perhaps even more in DK than in Sweden, and certainly more than in Norway, is very much a coming-of-age rite.

Traditionally the confirmation was a transformation process, after which the confirmand, entered the ranks of adults. Not legally but in regards to responsibilities.
It was traditionally visually marked in the sense that the boys no longer wore shorts but pants and the girls now wore full length dresses.
It was also the time when the vast majority left school and for the boys took on a full time job or entered an apprenticeship and the girls often left home to enter a few years of domestic service or took a job in a shop or a factory.
There is a lot of emphasis in the speeches (and songs!) at a confirmation hitting home the fact that you are now an adult/have come of age.

And when I listened to older relatives talking about their confirmation, they rarely spoke about the church and the religious aspects, it was the transformation from child to young adult that was first and foremost in their minds.

There is less of such a feeling of transformation today though, because at 14/15 they still have a couple of years left at school, before it's time for high school or something similar and because the confirmand may very likely not move away from home until around 20.
Thanks!

That was actually (and still is) the main thing here too!

In Denmark-Norway, confirmation was required by law in 1736. It was enacted that everyone during their youth should be confirmed through a public examination of the Christian faith and an ecclesiastical initiation. With this, it became a legal necessity for full entry into the adult community. No one could take military service, marry, be a godparent at a christening or testify in court without having done it. And if one didn't pass the exam in the church, you were "disproved" and had to be confirmed again next year. God! And if you hadn't met for it within the age of 19, one could be punished with prison or the pillory (heavens, glad I wasn't around in those days).

The confirmation, BTW, remained mandatory in Norway until 1912.

But to mention another thing, the significance of the confirmation in Norway is, I would say, much bigger than in Sweden. And according to Norwegian commentators/experts, even bigger than in DK!
Yes, it is actually considered to be one of the biggest milestones in a Norwegian's life, ''det er da du skal tre inn i de voksnes rekker'' (''that's when you step into the ranks of adults'') as we say it here.

And as I wrote in post 38, whether one is confirmed in The Norwegian Church (which a record-low 56% chose to do in 2018), in a humanistic way (which a record-high 18% opted for) or in another way (as the rest did, i.e. in another church or in a nonfirmation), it's celebrated with a BIG celebratory dinner for family/friends (including grandparents, uncles/aunts, cousins, etc) where one is given a LOT of money. And where it's VERY common for the females to use bunad.

--------------------

BTW: Will be back on Friday I think, with that luncheon-stuff, where I will talk a bit more about Ingrid.
__________________
Norwegians are girls who love girls, boys who love boys, and girls and boys who love each other. King Harald V speaking in 2016.
Reply With Quote
  #299  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:06 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 2,635
My goodness, really?! Prcss Astrid always seems so sweet...!
Reply With Quote
  #300  
Old 09-11-2019, 03:24 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 5,772


Perhaps King Harald acquired his famous aptitude for promoting unity and tolerance from living for so many years with two extremely iron-willed older siblings.

Thank you to Muhler and Royal Norway for the educational comments on the significance of confirmation as first and foremost a coming-of-age rite in the Scandinavian tradition, and to Somebody for asking the question. Does anyone know whether the Scandinavian Lutheran Churches today hold this same view (especially since the Church of Norway eliminated the question and answer service) or if they would rather there be more emphasis on the religious significance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
There is less of such a feeling of transformation today though, because at 14/15 they still have a couple of years left at school, before it's time for high school or something similar and because the confirmand may very likely not move away from home until around 20.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
But to mention another thing, the significance of the confirmation in Norway is, I would say, much bigger than in Sweden. And according to Norwegian commentators/experts, even bigger than in DK!
Yes, it is actually considered to be one of the biggest milestones in a Norwegian's life, ''det er da du skal tre inn i de voksnes rekker'' (''that's when you step into the ranks of adults'') as we say it here.
Does that mean that in Norway (in contrast to Denmark) a teenager who has been confirmed is seen as more adult than one who hasn't?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ingrid Alexandra's Baptism norwegianne Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Family 149 03-25-2022 09:28 PM
Ingrid Alexandra's first day at school - August 19th 2010 Her_Majesty Crown Prince Haakon, Crown Princess Mette-Marit and Family 61 09-19-2010 08:59 AM
Princess Ingrid Alexandra Current Events: May 3, 2005 - January 17, 2006 norwegianne Current Events Archive 104 01-17-2006 01:59 AM
Princess Ingrid Alexandra News and pictures: January 2004 - May 2005 norwegianne Current Events Archive 124 05-03-2005 04:09 AM
Princess Ingrid Alexandra News and pictures: January 2004 - July 2004 Josefine Current Events Archive 150 07-06-2004 06:57 PM




Popular Tags
#rashidmrm abdullah ii abolished monarchies africa all tags arcadie claret bevilacqua caribbean charles iii claret current events danish royal family death denmark duarte pio edward vii elizabeth ii emperor naruhito empress masako espana fallen empires fallen kingdom garsenda genealogy grace kelly harry history hobbies hollywood house of gonzaga identifying jordan royal family king charles king philippe lady pamela hicks leopold ier mall coronation day matrilineal monaco monarchy movies official visit order of precedence pamela mountbatten portugal prince albert monaco prince christian princess of orange queen queen alexandra queen camilla queen elizabeth queen ena of spain queen margrethe ii queen mathilde republics restoration royal initials royal wedding royal without thrones silk spanish history state visit state visit to france state visit to germany tiaras visit william wine glass woven


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:00 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2023
Jelsoft Enterprises