Mette-Marit's pregnancy with Sverre Magnus

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Karisma

If it would have been so serious she would'nt have been able travelling to Kristiansand.

There's a difference between travelling in a car within a country and getting on an airplane and travelling to another country, no matter how short the flight is.

Also, when in Sweden, Mette-Marit would've had a very busy and tight schedule -- as we saw with the King and Queen and Haakon attending all sorts of engagements and galas with the Swedish royals. Such a busy schedule could've escalated Mette-Marit's health problems.

Also, when working, even within Norway, there can be stresses placed upon Mette-Marit that wouldn't necessarily be present if she is relaxing or socializing with her family and friends.

Originally Posted by Karisma

I don't agree with the way You express it! Mette-Marit's top priority right now is her country. She have marrid a Crown Prince and the people of Norway is her first obligation. Period!

Even though she married in royalty and her role is to represent Norway, her first priority should always, always be her own health and the health of her unborn baby.

I doubt anyone in Norway wants a Crown Princess who shows up at all her schedule appearances but is sick throughout them.

There have also been numerous examples throughout history where Queens have put their country before their own young children to negative results. In Great Britain and Denmark, both Charles and Frederik respectively, have expressed publicly how lonely their childhoods were because their parents were constantly travelling and out of town and how little they saw of their parents.

In any job, whether it's Crown Princess or baker or office worker, if you care more about your job than your children or the health of your unborn baby, then perhaps that is a sign that you shouldn't have children in the first place.

[carlota]

ladies, don't think it needs to get so dramatic. i think karisma gave good arguments to support what he thinks, and sometimes not respecting someone is not only insulting or fighting with that someone, but the continuous discussion of the ideas he/she has. i have been through a similar situation and know how it feels to be refuted all what you say without even a hope of making the other person say "ok, you are right when you say this". what he said was logical and that's what matters in my opinion, although we may agree or not. this time i will have to support mette marit and the statement that it was previously said by alexandria, that everyone's priority should be his/her own health, but at the same time making the effort of going to events would be appreciated by any country, and mostly knowing your health isn't in a good condition.

[kwanfan]

Originally Posted by Karisma

I don't agree with the way You express it! Mette-Marit's top priority right now is her country. She have marrid a Crown Prince and the people of Norway is her first obligation. Period! (If she realy is sick she should stay in bed or rest at home if she are thinking about her unborn child and her country).

And part of her obligation to Norway is to produce a healthy heir and spare. Since the press release about her having low blood pressure she has only attended one event. The photos of her at the fashion show, which was an official engagement, and at her nieces soccer match were before the press release.

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by carlota

ladies, don't think it needs to get so dramatic. i think karisma gave good arguments to support what he thinks, and sometimes not respecting someone is not only insulting or fighting with that someone, but the continuous discussion of the ideas he/she has. i have been through a similar situation and know how it feels to be refuted all what you say without even a hope of making the other person say "ok, you are right when you say this". what he said was logical and that's what matters in my opinion, although we may agree or not. this time i will have to support mette marit and the statement that it was previously said by alexandria, that everyone's priority should be his/her own health, but at the same time making the effort of going to events would be appreciated by any country, and mostly knowing your health isn't in a good condition.

Thank You Carlota for reading what I'm trying to say and not make big drama about what I don't write or mean! And thank's for trying to understand my opinion, even though You don't have the same opinion Yourself. Perheps I'ts cultural differnses making us have different opinions and different way saying/writing what we think. (Ex: HRH Prince Charles of Britain could'nt have av church marrige because he'vebeen married before, late HRH Prince Bertil of Sweden cold'nt marry HRH Pricess Lilian until HM King Carl XVI Gustaf was married with HM Queen Silvia because Bertil svored to his father "Duty above all". and, if I'm right informed, some Royals from Catholic and Arabic countries didn't go to Norway for the marrige between HRH Crown Prince Haakon and HRH Crown Princess Mette-Marit because she have been married before having a son).

I do belive we must respect diffrenses in behavior, but we don't have to like them. We also have to respect eachother. I've been told that the Royals in Norway are very modern and informel. I, myself, like gala and formalitys, official protokolls and behaving well, but "superior". Royal behavior! And I trou belive that when Royals not are "magic" I won't like them and the different Parlaments wont't have them.

"Is being a Princess more than a Nice Hat"?

[carlota]

i agree with that last thing you said, karisma. what some people look in monarchy is not to see how common and normal and down to earth their lifes are (although it may be nice sometimes to see them going to the zoo or having a walk), but just the opposite (if that was the case we wouldn't have been posting in a royal forum but in a celebrities one!): galas, that royal behaviour you mentioned, crowns and tiaras... :)

i didn't know some people from the european and arabic countries didn't go to the wedding: can anyone tell who were those who weren't attending?

(in that case they lost the chance to see live one of the most beautiful royal wedding dresses, which many of us would have loved to see... :) )

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by kwanfan

And part of her obligation to Norway is to produce a healthy heir and spare.

My apologies if you find me rude but we are writing and talking about a rather healty pregnant women, not a breeding stock! And MM have all the services included...
I don't think it's a desease being pregnat. What help did MM have when she was pregnant with her firs born son Maurius (before she married Royal)? He seem too be a healty, qute yong men althogh MM lived a life with drougs and a father to Maurius who didn't care. Well, Maurius perhaps meet a princess some day - then he's Royal too! And he was'nt at all "in the breeding stock".

No offense Ladies, but if You like drama I'll give You drama. Plese try to move Your mindes and don't read in things I've not been writing.

[Smilla]

I don't think it's a desease being pregnat. What help did MM have when she was pregnant with her firs born son Maurius (before she married Royal)?



Pregnancy is not a desease, I agree with you there. However, as those of us who have children might know, pregnancy can make you feel pretty sick. As this seems to be the case, can we just accept that she might not be well enough to go on a state visit, where her job would be to make a good impression? And that she might rather spend time with her mom, who could help her with her kids?
No need to bash her...

BTW, doing your duty until you drop dead (as King Harald is planning to do) doesn't sound that clever. IF you really want to serve your country, wouldn't it make sense to preserve your health as well as you can in order to serve your country longer?

[kwanfan]

Originally Posted by Karisma

My apologies if you find me rude but we are writing and talking about a rather healty pregnant women, not a breeding stock! And MM have all the services included...
I don't think it's a desease being pregnat. What help did MM have when she was pregnant with her firs born son Maurius (before she married Royal)? He seem too be a healty, qute yong men althogh MM lived a life with drougs and a father to Maurius who didn't care. Well, Maurius perhaps meet a princess some day - then he's Royal too! And he was'nt at all "in the breeding stock".

No offense Ladies, but if You like drama I'll give You drama. Plese try to move Your mindes and don't read in things I've not been writing.

My comment was not meant to imply that she was "breeding stock." My comment was in response to your comment that her first duty should be to her country. If that is the case than she is doing her duty to her country by putting the health of the future genertion of Norwegian Royalty before a state visit.

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by Alexandria

1. There's a difference between travelling in a car within a country and getting on an airplane and travelling to another country, no matter how short the flight is.
2. Also, when in Sweden, Mette-Marit would've had a very busy and tight schedule -- as we saw with the King and Queen and Haakon attending all sorts of engagements and galas with the Swedish royals. Such a busy schedule could've escalated Mette-Marit's health problems.
3. Also, when working, even within Norway, there can be stresses placed upon Mette-Marit that wouldn't necessarily be present if she is relaxing or socializing with her family and friends.
4. Even though she married in royalty and her role is to represent Norway, her first priority should always, always be her own health and the health of her unborn baby.
5. I doubt anyone in Norway wants a Crown Princess who shows up at all her schedule appearances but is sick throughout them.
6. There have also been numerous examples throughout history where Queens have put their country before their own young children to negative results. In Great Britain and Denmark, both Charles and Frederik respectively, have expressed publicly how lonely their childhoods were because their parents were constantly travelling and out of town and how little they saw of their parents.
7. In any job, whether it's Crown Princess or baker or office worker, if you care more about your job than your children or the health of your unborn baby, then perhaps that is a sign that you shouldn't have children in the first place.

1.Karisma: Travelling betveen Norway (Oslo) and Sweden (Stockholm) is like travelling domestic in Canada from the center of Alberta to the centre of Brittish Columbia.
2. Karisma: Don't make drama! She could have minimized her program.
3. Karisma: In what job or life are You witout any stress?Please give me one examples!
4. Karisma: So if my wife , a Med. doctor, feels unhealthy she shold leave her patients and because she don't fell well? You know: There ar very many women with difficultys in their work.
5. Karisma: I'm not sure. If one reads papers from Norway You'll see that only about 60% of the people in Norway are satisfied with the way MM are doing her job.
6. Karisma: How many of us are totally pleased with both of our parents and their work when we were kids? Bringing up children is not easy and it's not easy being parent. But You can't be an adult if Yu don understand that Your own parents also have being cilds who wanted more from their parents. Many of us havn't had children nurses and own menservants giving full service and we can eventhogh make advanced work with great responsibility.
7. Karisma: If You love children You or Your partner should'nt work at all and don't marry an man/wife who have to be "married to her/his job"!

Ladies: I think You underestimate Yourselves as women when You only craves that HRH MM shall produce a child and sometime wear a nice hat with a mild smile.

[kwanfan]

Originally Posted by Karisma

1.Karisma: Travelling betveen Norway (Oslo) and Sweden (Stockholm) is like travelling domestic in Canada from the center of Alberta to the centre of Brittish Columbia.
2. Karisma: Don't make drama! She could have minimized her program.
3. Karisma: In what job or life are You witout any stress?Please give me one examples!
4. Karisma: So if my wife , a Med. doctor, feels unhealthy she shold leave her patients and because she don't fell well? You know: There ar very many women with difficultys in their work.
5. Karisma: I'm not sure. If one reads papers from Norway You'll see that only about 60% of the people in Norway are satisfied with the way MM are doing her job.
6. Karisma: How many of us are totally pleased with both of our parents and their work when we were kids? Bringing up children is not easy and it's not easy being parent. But You can't be an adult if Yu don understand that Your own parents also have being cilds who wanted more from their parents. Many of us havn't had children nurses and own menservants giving full service and we can eventhogh make advanced work with great responsibility.
7. Karisma: If You love children You or Your partner should'nt work at all and don't marry an man/wife who have to be "married to her/his job"!

Ladies: I think You underestimate Yourselves as women when You only craves that HRH MM shall produce a child and sometime wear a nice hat with a mild smile.

1. Mette-Marit is said to have a fear of flying. If she is already not feeling well, the added stress of confronting a fear could be harmful.
2. I'm sure if she minmized her program people would still be criticizing her.
3. Of course every job faces stresses. But there are not many jobs where you have to look elegant and presentable, make conversation with people you may have never met, and represent your country. I'm sure this would be very stressful if you were feeling ill from a pregnancy.
4. Of course there are. But there is a difference between simply having a cold, and being pregnant. When you are pregnant, an illness can have an effect on not one but two lives.
Of course we all hope Mette-Marit will have a healthy happy child. It seems to me that the people insisting that Mette-Marit should attend these events despite being ill are the one who only care aobut seeing Mette-Marit in a nice dress and hat.

[Smilla]

4. Karisma: So if my wife , a Med. doctor, feels unhealthy she shold leave her patients and because she don't fell well? You know: There ar very many women with difficultys in their work.
Ladies: I think You underestimate Yourselves as women when You only craves that HRH MM shall produce a child and sometime wear a nice hat with a mild smile.
[/QUOTE]

4. If she were ill, she should call in sick and get well. Her patients wouldn't benefit if she were ill and couldn't work as well as usually on that account. We all know that there are situations when it would be downright unsafe to work, for ourselves or the people who work with us.

I think as women we know exactly - many of us from experience - how hard it can be when you're pregnant, so most of us are more tolerant than men who've never experienced pregnancy.

Isn't the whole discussion pointless, anyway?

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by Smilla

As this seems to be the case, can we just accept that she might not be well enough to go on a state visit, where her job would be to make a good impression? And that she might rather spend time with her mom, who could help her with her kids?

Well, she have nurses and servents for everything she needs. But her Mom ar quite a lady (I like her Mom very much!) and I can understand that it's not the same with servents as it is with her Mom

Originally Posted by Smilla

No need to bash her...

My meaning is not "bashing". I only want's to ponit at differences between behavior among Royals.

Originally Posted by Smilla

BTW, doing your duty until you drop dead (as King Harald is planning to do) doesn't sound that clever. IF you really want to serve your country, wouldn't it make sense to preserve your health as well as you can in order to serve your country longer?

I can agree about doing dutys until You drop dead. I'm worried about King Harald! But mostly (Christian) elder Royals are broght up Biblish. "Those who try to save (spare?) Your life shall lose it". (Translation from Swedish Bible).

[Larzen]

Originally Posted by Karisma

and, if I'm right informed, some Royals from Catholic and Arabic countries didn't go to Norway for the marrige between HRH Crown Prince Haakon and HRH Crown Princess Mette-Marit because she have been married before having a son).

She has not been married before.

What catholic royals did not have good representation at that wedding?
From Spain the Queen and Crown Prince, From Belgium the King, Queen, Crown Prince. From Lux Former and Present Grand Ducal couples, the heridary grand duke plus Prince Guilame and Princess Sibilla.

The only non reigening royals that were ther was the greeks, but that was the same as with the King and Queen and Princess Märtha Louise. As far as I can remember the only norwegian wedding that had arabian wedding guests was Märtha Louises who had a prince and princess from jordan so its hardly exceptionally that there were non for that wedding.

Guestlist for source
http://www.kongehuset.no/dt_kongehus...gid=16&aid=488

btw there was not any arab royals (except for Farah and she is not reigning) in Copenhagen either were they boycotting Mary also

Source
http://kongehuset.dk/artikel.php?id=61102

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by Smilla

Isn't the whole discussion pointless, anyway?

It is if we only crave our Royals waving and feeding children the whole discussion is totally pointless. But if we belive that Monarchy are something above that and like the traditions about Monarchy and belive that its a good way rouling a contry it's not poinless, but very important.

[kwanfan]

Originally Posted by Karisma

It is if we only crave our Royals waving and feeding children the whole discussion is totally pointless. But if we belive that Monarchy are something above that and like the traditions about Monarchy and belive that its a good way rouling a contry it's not poinless, but very important.

Based on this statement, I assume you like the monarchy and want it to continue. In order for the monarchy to continue, Mette-Marit must do what is best for her unborn child because her unborn child is part of the future of the Norwegian monarchy.

[GrandDuchess]

Pew! (after reading this page of heated discussion)

Originally Posted by kwanfan

In order for the monarchy to continue, Mette-Marit must do what is best for her unborn child because her unborn child is part of the future of the Norwegian monarchy.

Indeed, that's very true.

I hope Crown Princess Mette-Marit will feel better soon. Can't wait for the autumnal royal baby boom coming!

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by kwanfan

Based on this statement, I assume you like the monarchy and want it to continue. In order for the monarchy to continue, Mette-Marit must do what is best for her unborn child because her unborn child is part of the future of the Norwegian monarchy.

I like Monarchy when it's gives us "something more" than other ways rouling. But when Monarchy dosn't live up to it's own ideal, it's dead. The way some Royals live (this is'nt about HRH MM -yet, even though I have had my dubts several times) would'nt have been possible in some other countrys. But when we speek about "Royal Norway" it's difficult take threts about "unborn childs" seriously. HRH CP Haakon is a living proof that a Royal can marry the partner he/she loves! (Thats very good for the modern Monarchy in my opinion :) )! The more You ladies makes drama about "unborn child" maks me remaining that "everyone" can be a Royal if falling in love with an other Royal. When You've been married with av CP (male/female) You are Your country! Thats why duty is above all!

For ex: When HM King/Queen speeks they say: "We like..." - about them selves. King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden when he initiate an official spech: "We, King Carl XVI Gustaf"... HM Queen Margareta of Denmark, worlds oldest Monarchy, speeks about the same. Why? Because a Rouling Royal IS it's country. The King of Sweden is Sweden! We = all us living in Sweden = Monarchy. I want to remind You again what HM Queen Margareta of Denmark answerd when one of her sons were going to marrie a girl who was'nt Royal. "The most important for a Royal is having good helth and strong legs".

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by Karisma

I like Monarchy when it's gives us "something more" than other ways rouling. But when Monarchy dosn't live up to it's own ideal, it's dead. The way some Royals live (this is'nt about HRH MM -yet, even though I have had my dubts several times) would'nt have been possible in some other countrys. But when we speek about "Royal Norway" it's difficult take threts about "unborn childs" seriously. HRH CP Haakon is a living proof that a Royal can marry the partner he/she loves! (Thats very good for the modern Monarchy in my opinion :) )! The more You ladies makes drama about "unborn child" maks me remaining that "everyone" can be a Royal if falling in love with an other Royal. When You've been married with av CP (male/female) You are Your country! Thats why duty is above all!

For ex: When HM King/Queen speeks they say: "We like..." - about them selves. King Carl XVI Gustaf of Sweden when he initiate an official spech: "We, King Carl XVI Gustaf"... HM Queen Margareta of Denmark, worlds oldest Monarchy, speeks about the same. Why? Because a Rouling Royal IS it's country. The King of Sweden is Sweden! We = all us living in Sweden = Monarchy. I want to remind You again what HM Queen Margareta of Denmark answerd when one of her sons were going to marrie a girl who was'nt Royal. "The most important for a Royal is having good helth and strong legs".

I think I understand what you are saying, but I cannot seem to escape the idea that they are also human beings, no matter what, and subject to all human frailties.

They are representatives of their country.

When one of them uses the term 'We' in a speech, they are including themselves as part of the general population -- not referring only to themselves, then relegating every other citizen outside of their own family to just some kind of extra bothersome footnote. I would find it hard to believe, for example, that CP Hakkon things he himself is Norway rather than a person who was born into a position where his family job is to represent Norway.

If he thought he himself actually was Norway, that would mean that every Norwegian citizen would exist only as a result of his own bidding -- as an extension of him. If he did think that, which I am sure he must be much more grounded a person than all that, I would think he would be some sort of megalomaniac. I certainly hope that is not what you meant...

But I don't know, maybe there are some royals out there who believe that the country where they live exists because of them, soley for them and for their own pleasure...

The country is made up of many other elements than just members of any Royal family.:p

Just a thought.

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by Larzen

She has not been married before.

I'm so sorry! :o When she had her first born child, Maurius, she was unmarried living among drougusers. Excuse me!

[Karisma]

Originally Posted by Lillia

I think I understand what you are saying, but I cannot seem to escape the idea that they are also human beings, no matter what, and subject to all human frailties.

They are representatives of their country. When one of them uses the term 'We' in a speech, they are including themselves as part of the general population -- not referring only to themselves, then relegating every other citizen outside of their family to just some kind of extra bothersome footnote. But I don't know, maybe there are some royals out there who believe that the country where they live exists because of them and for them and their pleasure...

The country is made up of many other elements than just members of any Royal family.

Just a thought.

It's very oldfashioned. I'm not certain about every Monarchy but I'm at least shure about the meaning in Swedish. The King is impersonated withSweden. I think old Monarchys have older traditions. The Brittish and Danish also are old fashioned. I think that Norway have a more modern Monarchy. I respect it, of course.