Belgian State Visit to South Africa: March 22 - 27, 2023


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

iceflower

Administrator
Site Team
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
76,646
Country
Germany
* *

At the invitation of the President of the Republic of South Africa Matamela Cyril Ramaphosa
King Philippe and Queen Mathilde will pay a state visit to South Africa from March 22 to March 27, 2023.

"The program includes various cultural, academic and economic activities in Pretoria, Johannesburg"


** monarchie: Visite d'Etat en Afrique du Sud **

Please take a look at the
TRF Community Rules & FAQs!


· Only pictures you have written permission to share can be posted here. You can post links to any pictures.
· No more than 20% of the text of an article can be posted, along with a link to the original article.
· It's a copyright violation to post translations of entire articles.
· We expect our members to treat each other and the royals and persons in these threads with respect.
· Opinions should be backed up by reference to published reports.
· Off topic and empty posts will be deleted without notice.
· Please be careful not to write in capital letters.

:flowers: Happy Posting! :flowers:
 
Some additional information about the upcoming state visit has been released today:


** diplomatie.belgium.be: State Visit to South Africa **


When Queen Beatrix visited South Africa, she spoke briefly in Dutch during her speech at the state banquet. But the times were different. It was shortly after the end of apartheid (during the Mandela presidency) and F. W. De Klerk was in attendance. Nowadays that would be unlikely given the ANC hostility towards Afrikaans.
 
I think people who are responsible for holding Belgium together are fairly familiar with sensitive issues of language.

They will probably just speak English but since they are going to Pretoria and Jo'burg, I can't imagine they won't encounter some Afrikaaners or people who speak it. On the other hand, I'm not sure Dutch and Afrikaans are that mutually comprehensible?
 
Last edited:
I think people who are responsible for holding Belgium together are fairly familiar with sensitive issues of language.

They will probably just speak English but since they are going to Pretoria and Jo'burg, I can't imagine they won't encounter some Afrikaaners or people who speak it. On the other hand, I'm not sure Dutch and Afrikaans are that mutually comprehensible?

See this short clip of Charlize Theron speaking in Afrikaans to a Belgian journalist who is speaking standard Belgian Dutch, I suppose.

Keep in mind Charlize has been living in the US since she was teenager, so her Afrikaans is probably not exactly "native-like" these days. You can see she uses some English words in the middle of Afrikaans sentences, but young Afrikaners in South Africa itself do that too.

Anyway, going back to the main point, I don't think Philippe will speak Dutch in South Africa as Beatrix once did.

EDIT: Just as a curiosity, the original constitution of South Africa passed by the UK Parliament (the Union of South Africa Act) stated that "English and Dutch" were the two official languages of the Union and that clause was actually entrenched as it could only be amended by a majority of two-thirds of the total number of members of the Senate and the House of Assembly in a joint session of the two houses. In 1925, however, the Union Parliament passed a law that "clarified" that all references to "Dutch" in the South Africa Act should be interpreted as "including Afrikaans". From then on, in practice, all parliamentary records and papers were published in English and Afrikaans, rather than English and Dutch, but Dutch remained technically one of the two official languages of South Africa until, I think, the proclamation of the republic in 1961.
 
Last edited:
....On the other hand, I'm not sure Dutch and Afrikaans are that mutually comprehensible?

The Southafricans understand us Dutch better than we do them.
 
Its a longer than usual State Visit and hopefully the king and queen will get to enjoy some of the beautiful scenery and landscape in South Africa.
 
I agree SLV, South Africans do understand Dutch better than the Dutch understanding Afrikaans. Afrikaans can be similar to Dutch. I am South African born and when I read something written in Dutch, I fully comprehend what is written.
 
Prior to the beginning of the state visit tomorrow the Palace today shared some photos of previous meetings between the two countries:


** instagram gallery **
 
It is interesting that in Belgium (like in Spain) there is still an official departure ceremony when the King makes a State Visit. With a military guard of honour and with officials lining to shake hands.

In some other monarchies the monarch simply is transported to the airplane and he/she boards without protocol or ceremonial. In some newsreels one can still see this sort of ceremonials in almost all monarchies but in most this has been abandoned, I think. With the advance of travel (most royals are true globe-hoppers) it will have an impact on many agendas if every time one has to show up at the airport, the port or the railway station.
 
Last edited:
What is the full program of the Visit? Do we know if a State Dinner will take place? Can we expect the Queen to wear a tiara?
 
What is the full program of the Visit? Do we know if a State Dinner will take place? Can we expect the Queen to wear a tiara?

Queen Mathilde normally wears of one of her two small tiaras if there is a black tie dinner. But I don't know what the dress code is in South Africa these days.
 
If there is a State Dinner, President Ramaphosa will wear black tie while his wife will a traditional/national outfit.
 
Holding hands as they get off the plane :wub:

The Queen deserves nothing but praise, only a couple of days ago she was in Egypt by her daughter's side, now she's back on Consort mode. Always working. Bless her.
Btw, the Belgian Royal Palace does a great job with their insta stories.
 
The state visit has officially started with the welcome ceremony at the Union Buildings, the official seat of the South-African government, in Pretoria, today, March 23:


** gettyimages gallery ** rex gallery **


The programme for today has been changed last minute, Belgian media reports:

The press meeting of King Philippe and President Ramaphosa has been cancelled, the visit to the Freedom Park will take place later and be shorter and the state banquet has been downsized, the unstable political situation may be a possible reason:


** hln.be article: Programma van staatsbezoek Filip en Mathilde in Zuid-Afrika op laatste moment aangepast **
 
Last edited:
The state visit has officially started with the welcome ceremony at the Union Buildings, the official seat of the South-African government, in Pretoria, today, March 23:


** gettyimages gallery ** rex gallery **


The programme for today has been changed last minute, Belgian media reports:

The press meeting of King Philippe and President Ramaphosa has been cancelled, the visit to the Freedom Park will take place later and be shorter and the state banquet has been downsized, the unstable political situation may be a possible reason:


** hln.be article: Programma van staatsbezoek Filip en Mathilde in Zuid-Afrika op laatste moment aangepast **

Sad to hear that the banquet has been downsized. Does that mean business suits only? And no tiara then?
 
Last edited:
The state visit has officially started with the welcome ceremony at the Union Buildings, the official seat of the South-African government, in Pretoria, today, March 23:


** gettyimages gallery ** rex gallery **


The programme for today has been changed last minute, Belgian media reports:

The press meeting of King Philippe and President Ramaphosa has been cancelled, the visit to the Freedom Park will take place later and be shorter and the state banquet has been downsized, the unstable political situation may be a possible reason:


** hln.be article: Programma van staatsbezoek Filip en Mathilde in Zuid-Afrika op laatste moment aangepast **

Not unexpected,a downright mess,the country is in turmoil,the visit should have been postponed!
 
The state visit has officially started with the welcome ceremony at the Union Buildings, the official seat of the South-African government, in Pretoria, today, March 23:


** gettyimages gallery ** rex gallery **


The programme for today has been changed last minute, Belgian media reports:

The press meeting of King Philippe and President Ramaphosa has been cancelled, the visit to the Freedom Park will take place later and be shorter and the state banquet has been downsized, the unstable political situation may be a possible reason:


** hln.be article: Programma van staatsbezoek Filip en Mathilde in Zuid-Afrika op laatste moment aangepast **


Sad to hear, I also had no idea South Africa was in the middle of such a complicated political situation. They should have postponed the visit, what is the point of having guests from abroad if you can't receive them properly?
 
I saw a band and a guard of honour in fantasy uniforms. The execution was very poor. During the inspection by the King, the parade commander forgot the command "Present, Arrrrms!". So the King walked past military standing with their rifle at ease: picture

Later, at a wreath laying ceremony, the military -correctly- did present their arms: picture

Once the South-African armed forces were more-British-than-British in ceremony, protocol and execution. I do not know whose idea it was to replace the real military tenues with those USA high school band uniforms.
 
Last edited:
I saw a band and a guard of honour in fantasy uniforms. The execution was very poor. During the inspection by the King, the parade commander forgot the command "Present, Arrrrms!". So the King walked past military standing with their rifle at ease: picture

Later, at a wreath laying ceremony, the military -correctly- did present their arms: picture

Once the South-African armed forces were more-British-than-British in ceremony, protocol and execution. I do not know whose idea it was to replace the real military tenues with those USA high school band uniforms.

Who is the cheerful looking lady who is in front in the second picture?
And what purpose does she serve?
 
Here's a Behind The Scenes video by Wim Dehandschutter.


Lovely video; it all seems rather small and somewhat informal (especially for a state banquet - even given that it was toned down). And at times Philippe looks nervous, so it is helpful that his wife is there to support him in those moments. She seems far more confident.
 
All this brings the question forward if it would have made any difference if not a Mr and Mrs Philippe de Saxe-Cobourg et Gotha but a Mr and Mrs Alexander De Croo would have made this visit?

In no any sense it looks a "royal visit" and when the President of Kazakhstan brings a visit to Pretoria, it will look exactly the same. With the disappearance of "the theatre of state" the bonus of having a royal head of state diminishes.
 
All this brings the question forward if it would have made any difference if not a Mr and Mrs Philippe de Saxe-Cobourg et Gotha but a Mr and Mrs Alexander De Croo would have made this visit?

In no any sense it looks a "royal visit" and when the President of Kazakhstan brings a visit to Pretoria, it will look exactly the same. With the disappearance of "the theatre of state" the bonus of having a royal head of state diminishes.


It would have not looked different if "Mr Willem-Alexander and Mrs. Máxima of Orange-Nassau" aka the King and Queen of the Netherlands had paid that State Visit.
We can hardly blame it on the King and Queen as they are not the hosts
 
It would have not looked different if "Mr Willem-Alexander and Mrs. Máxima of Orange-Nassau" aka the King and Queen of the Netherlands had paid that State Visit.
We can hardly blame it on the King and Queen as they are not the hosts

That is true but it is another erosion of what a Royal Visit means. The glanz und gloria of representing a proud and self-conscious nation on world stage (one of the raisons d'être of a State Visit) seems absent here.
 
Back
Top Bottom