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  #1801  
Old 05-23-2009, 08:20 PM
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I'm confused by this entire thread. H.R.H. The Prince of Wales is heir to the thrones of the United Kingdom and etc.

When his mother dies, assuming he does not predecease her, he will assume the throne.

Whats to discuss?
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  #1802  
Old 05-23-2009, 09:39 PM
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The fact that some people want the throne to pass directly to William, as if somehow the Queen has a say over who inherits the throne.

The fact that he is already over 60 and maybe will be seen as too old (not an issue for me as long as he is mentally competant to carry out his constitutional duties and remembering that he has a long way to go until he is the oldest to inherit the throne.)

The fact that some Diana fanatics want to punish him for marrying her in the first place and making her unhappy. Despite the fact that she also made him unhappy he is to be held totally responsible, in the minds of some people, for any unhappiness in that marriage.

Personally I think he will made a great king and I hope that he lives to be at least as old as his maternal grandmother or even older.
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  #1803  
Old 05-24-2009, 09:14 PM
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I always find it interesting that when someone dislikes Charles or Camilla it's because of 'the fact' they are 'Diana Fanatics' as opposed to not liking Charles and Camilla as a result of their behavior. Diana has been dead a long time. Why keep bringing her up?
  #1804  
Old 05-24-2009, 09:31 PM
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I definitely think Charles should reign, I think if the throne was passed to William it would be extremely hard on him and I don't think his grandmother would want him to have the same pressure she had at such a young age, I think she would want to give him some more time to prepare himself. In fact I think Charles would probably be a really good King, from what I've seen he seems to mostly care very much and is interested in alot of great things.
  #1805  
Old 05-25-2009, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
. . . . . . . . . . I think if the throne was passed to William it would be extremely hard on him and I don't think his grandmother would want him to have the same pressure she had at such a young age, I think she would want to give him some more time to prepare himself. . . . . . . .
I agree with the sentiments but there still seems to be an inference that the succession is within the Queen's Gift and of course it is not! As jcasey170 has so eloquently stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcasey170 View Post
When his mother dies, assuming he does not predecease her, he will assume the throne.
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  #1806  
Old 05-25-2009, 10:46 PM
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I am still a little surprised this topic is still running; it's like beating a dead horse. The only way Charles will not reign is if he dies before his mother dies--and he seems to be in good health so I doubt that happens. If you look at the facts, they are short, but sweet. Charles is the heir to throne, he will become King. I find it ridiculous that Diana, dead or alive, is even relevant to Charles' ascension to the throne. It is quite self-serving to continually discuss whether or not he should assume the throne because some think William should --- well, does William want to be King before his father? Wouldn't that make him feel odd? And, simply stated--it isn't done that way. This whole topic rests on a small number of people's "loyalty" to Diana--and while nice, it isn't relevant because we are discussing the succession.
The real topic has always been what title Camilla will take upon his ascension. I still hope for Queen because I'm worried if she is not Queen Consort she won't have access to some of the jewels--I know that there are deeper issues here, but I want to see some jewels. A secondary topic is what name Charles will go by; I like Charles II, but some have suggested the possibility of another George. Time will tell--
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  #1807  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
The real topic has always been what title Camilla will take upon his ascension. I still hope for Queen because I'm worried if she is not Queen Consort she won't have access to some of the jewels--I know that there are deeper issues here, but I want to see some jewels.
Whether Queen or Princess Consort, she'll still be 'the' consort, jcb.

I don't see why Camilla, as the King's spouse, wouldn't be able to use any bejewelled diadem's, tiara's, collier's, necklaces, brooch's, stomachers, earrings, bracelets or pins which are otherwise reserved for the use of the wife of the British monarch.

Jewellery which is left to the Crown, can be allocated at the sovereign's discreation and I don't invision Charles prohibiting his wife from using any particular piece of jewellery (hopefully as long as it suits her and as long as it isn't heavily associated with any one person since passed...mind you, I'd quite like to see Camilla make use of the Cambridge emeralds at some stage).
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  #1808  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:15 AM
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What she won't be able to wear, if not Queen Consort, is the Consort's actual crown.
  #1809  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
A secondary topic is what name Charles will go by; I like Charles II, but some have suggested the possibility of another George. Time will tell--

I too like Charles II. He is one of my favourite monarchs. I always felt sorry for him losing his father the way he did but pleased that he restored the monarchy in a relatively sensible manner.
  #1810  
Old 05-26-2009, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
What she won't be able to wear, if not Queen Consort, is the Consort's actual crown.
I noted that in my original response, but removed it as I thought that rather obvious...hehe.

So she wouldn't wear a crown. That's no big issue, imo. I think the State Diadem could serve as a more than suitable 'replacement' if Camilla is created Princess Consort. But that's just my opinion.
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  #1811  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:27 PM
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I think there may be some agitation from people who object to the Princess Consort wearing jewels left by Queen Victoria specifically to be worn by future queens, but we'll have to see if that actually happens.
  #1812  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I think there may be some agitation from people who object to the Princess Consort wearing jewels left by Queen Victoria specifically to be worn by future queens, but we'll have to see if that actually happens.
True. However, I think you'd be hard pressed to come across anyone, who unless they have a long standing interest in royal jewels, would even be aware that Queen Victoria specifically left jewellery to be worn by future Queen's. Where the general public is concerned, I'd imagine that most wouldn't even have a clue.

The British public aren't particularly well versed with such things as has been my experience...
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  #1813  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:44 PM
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No, but it only takes one of the Daily Mail muckrakers to read TRF and pick up on an angle like that, and then they can write an outraged piece in the paper as though they were some sort of expert on British royal history, and that'll get the base nicely riled up.
  #1814  
Old 05-26-2009, 09:56 PM
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Indeed. One shouldn't discredit the editorial matter this forum can at times persuade...

But if Camilla technically remained Queen, though was officially known as Princess Consort, then there's grounds enough to insist that HRH has every right to make use of the specified jewellery. I guess whatever formula is used regarding her title at the time, shall dictate whether or not her use of the jewellery is valid and viable. Though I don't think it would be much of an issue, myself.
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  #1815  
Old 05-26-2009, 11:27 PM
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I also worry about the ramifications of some yellow journalist writing about Camilla wearing jewels only designated for a Queen Consort, but I have to say that I do like Madame Royale's summation on the subject--be it Queen or Princess, Camilla will be the Consort and I agree that the State Diadem is perfect for her to wear. But, still, there is the selfish side of me that desires to see her alongside her husband wearing the Queen Mother's (or Queen Mary's if I'm really honest) crown. The more I think about it, the more plausible it seems that Camilla will be the Queen Consort, and even crowned Consort, but will prefer to be known as the Princess Consort in a similar arrangement as we now see with the PoW title. Unfair? Yes. Practical? At the same time, yes. That way, the small minority are appeased and the jewels are seen. I assume she would be first in the order of precedence.
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  #1816  
Old 05-27-2009, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
I assume she would be first in the order of precedence.
Whether Queen or Princess Consort, Camilla will, as spouse, rank second to the sovereign. Absolutely.
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  #1817  
Old 05-27-2009, 02:23 AM
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British precedence is usually split into two lists, one for men and one for women. She would be at the top of the womens' list (but still below the King, obviously). (Although splitting it is becoming increasingly outmoded due to the number of female officeholders.)
  #1818  
Old 05-28-2009, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I think there may be some agitation from people who object to the Princess Consort wearing jewels left by Queen Victoria specifically to be worn by future queens, but we'll have to see if that actually happens.
Well, Granny was extremely specific in her will about the schedule of jewels designated 'to be worn by future Queens in right of it'. Given how the BRF reveres Queen Victoria (ie the 'dont sit there, Queen Victoria last sat in that chair', etc), I would be shocked if they flagrantly flouted the will. There are so many sparkly whatevers in the vault that have not seen the light of day in 100 years....why not trot some of them out instead? Especially if one believes his statement at the time of his engagement to Camilla...'It is intended that she will be known as the Princess Consort', not Queen Camilla.
  #1819  
Old 05-29-2009, 05:39 AM
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When the time comes, it is not going to matter one hoot what Victoria may or may not have put in her will. I can't say I have ever come across a rule of don't sit there because Victoria did!
  #1820  
Old 05-29-2009, 06:25 AM
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I haven't been able to find the text of Victoria's will anywhere, but I imagine that anything she said about her jewels was just an expression of her wishes as to who should wear certain things and such precatory words in a will generally have no legal force or effect.

She might have listed certain jewels as being those she considered so special for some reason that they should only be worn by future queens regnant or the wives future kings. I doubt Queen Victoria would have contemplated what might be suitable to be work by a future king's wife if that wife were not queen consort, since that concept would be unlikely to have occurred to her in her wildest dreams. Camilla is Charles' wife and, all going well, she will one day be the King's wife and consort, regardless of what she is called. She will be able to wear whatever Charles thinks she should be able to wear.

If Queen Victoria's ideas and opinions had any legal bearing on Queen Elizabeth II's children, Prince Edward would probably have been made heir apparent long ago.
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