Will Charles Ever Reign?

[Mapple]

That declaration is sort of interesting because hasn't Tony Blair abolished the post of Lord Chancellor? If the Queen outlives the Duke of Edinburgh, and in the absence of a Lord Chancellor, to say nothing about Blair's tinkering with the House of Lords such that one of these days there may not be a Lord Chief Justice either, we may run out of enough eminent people to make this declaration.

I see the Prime Minister isn't on the list. Interesting omission.

Ultimately Blair decided to let the post of Lord Chancellor stand; the Constitutional Reform Act 2005 only divested Lord Chancellor of functions of Speaker of the House of Lords and Head of the Judiciary.

Yes, the PM's omission is interesting--and justified.

 

[ysbel]

I see the Prime Minister isn't on the list. Interesting omission.

If I didn't know better, I'd say it was Lilibet's revenge.

 

[Warren]

If I didn't know better, I'd say it was Lilibet's revenge.

Thanks (again) to Mapple:
From the Regency Act 1937: 'If the following persons or any three or more of them [agree on the physicians' report as to the infirmity of the Monarch...]:

the wife or husband of the Monarch,
the Lord Chancellor, politician
the Speaker of the House of Commons, politician
the Lord Chief Justice of England,
and the Master of the Rolls, (the second senior judge of England)

So, the spouse of the Monarch, two politicians and the two senior judges of England form the panel of five to assess the doctor's report. A majority of three is required to accept the infirmity and thereby create the Regency.

No sensible person would appoint three politicians to a committee of five that had the legal power to, in effect, remove them from office!
.

 

[love_cc]

If Charles were to be called George VII, it would be a surprise for me, but I just found coincidence, like Edward VII had Alice Keppel then George VII has Camilla. Also I am thinking of Prince William to be William V and another coincidence like George V. Charles will change his family name to Mountbatten instead of Mountbatten-Winsor. That's pretty important for him as well. I hope he can reign one day.

 

[Saragli]

Charles isnt changing his family name. From what I hear him and his dad are not buddy buddy and I dont think he wants his fathers name as the name of Britians Royal Family. I like Windsor. I think it is the perfect name. I dont really understand your coincides though.

 

[branchg]

Charles isnt changing his family name. From what I hear him and his dad are not buddy buddy and I dont think he wants his fathers name as the name of Britians Royal Family. I like Windsor. I think it is the perfect name. I dont really understand your coincides though.

It's not his father's name because Prince Philip is a Glucksburg-Battenberg-Romanov. Mountbatten was made up when George V ordered his Battenburg cousins to cease using their German princely titles in the UK. As a result, Philip's uncles and grandmother assumed newly created peerages, including Mountbatten.

The Queen is really a member of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Hanover.

 

[love_cc]

Changing his family name into Mountbatten is to pay his tribute to his Great Uncle Lord Mountbatten not Prince Philip. We know how deep his emotions for Lord Mountbatten, a father figure but brother, friend, mentor.

 

[Margrethe II]

The Queen is really a member of the House of Saxe-Coburg and Hanover.

Her Majesty the Queen is infact a member of the House of Windsor (legally and officially) Perviously the House of Saxe Coburg und Gotha.

Mountbatten-Windsor is the personal surname of the descendants of the Queen and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

The surname (Order in Council, 1960) does not apply to the Queen's extended family (ie late sister, cousins, nephews and nieces) it is only the surname of those who are descendants of the Monarch who do not hold (or at least are said not to) Royal styles and titles. But, as shown at the marriages of the Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal, both used Mountbatten-Windsor in their marriage registers.

Today, members of the House of Windsor to use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor are:

HRH the Prince of Wales
HRH the Prince William of Wales
HRH the Prince Henry of Wales
HRH the Prince Andrew, Duke of York
HRH the Princess Beatrice of York
HRH the Princess Eugenie of York
HRH the Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex
HRH the Princess Louise of Wessex, the Lady Louise of Wessex

They of course also belong to the House of Schleswig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg.

"MII"

 

[Margrethe II]

Changing his family name into Mountbatten is to pay his tribute to his Great Uncle Lord Mountbatten not Prince Philip. We know how deep his emotions for Lord Mountbatten, a father figure but brother, friend, mentor.

I'm not sure if that was infact the reason behind the change of surname. Sure Lord Louis was an influential figure in both Philip & Charles' lives, but I do believe the change of surname came from Philip himself. Earl Mountbatten was most pleased though, theres no denying that.

"MII"

 

[Von Schlesian]

I understand too, that the decision was more Her Majesty wishing to acknowledge the significance of HRH The Prince Philip, and the family he comes from. As he was forced to renounce his Royal Greek/Danish titles, it was a sign of her affection for him, and in a way strengthening his identity.

Branchg;
I don't see how HRH The Prince Philip is 'Romanov', female members of his mothers' house of Hesse married into the Imperial House of Romanov, as did members of his Grandfathers' Danish House of Oldenberg, but I don't understand how that makes His Royal Highness a Romanov. He belongs to the houses of Oldenberg and Hesse, and the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderberg-Glucksburg and Battenberg (changed to Mountbatten) families.

 

[branchg]

Her Majesty the Queen is infact a member of the House of Windsor (legally and officially) Perviously the House of Saxe Coburg und Gotha.

Mountbatten-Windsor is the personal surname of the descendants of the Queen and Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

The surname (Order in Council, 1960) does not apply to the Queen's extended family (ie late sister, cousins, nephews and nieces) it is only the surname of those who are descendants of the Monarch who do not hold (or at least are said not to) Royal styles and titles. But, as shown at the marriages of the Prince of Wales and the Princess Royal, both used Mountbatten-Windsor in their marriage registers.

Today, members of the House of Windsor to use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor are:

HRH the Prince of Wales
HRH the Prince William of Wales
HRH the Prince Henry of Wales
HRH the Prince Andrew, Duke of York
HRH the Princess Beatrice of York
HRH the Princess Eugenie of York
HRH the Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex
HRH the Princess Louise of Wessex, the Lady Louise of Wessex

They of course also belong to the House of Schleswig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg.

"MII"

British royals do not need surnames since they hold titles and dignity of rank. Mountbatten-Windsor is designated for use when a surname is required, but it is not their name. Neither means anything in the peerage or history of the UK as they are simply made-up. The Queen is a descendant of the Houses of Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha through her father and the Scottish aristocracy through her mother.

Only children of the sovereign can use "The" before their titular dignity. Beatrice, Eugenie, William and Harry are simply Prince/Princess Christian name.

Lady Louise is styled as such with the assent of the Queen. Legally, she is HRH Princess Louise of Wessex, not the way you have written it above.

 

[branchg]

I don't see how HRH The Prince Philip is 'Romanov', female members of his mothers' house of Hesse married into the Imperial House of Romanov, as did members of his Grandfathers' Danish House of Oldenberg, but I don't understand how that makes His Royal Highness a Romanov. He belongs to the houses of Oldenberg and Hesse, and the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderberg-Glucksburg and Battenberg (changed to Mountbatten) families.

Philip is a descendant of the Imperial House of Romanov through his paternal grandmother, Grand Duchess Olga, who became Queen Olga of Greece when she married Prince Wilhelm of Denmark, who became King of the Hellenes.

 

[Ennyllorac]

British royals do not need surnames since they hold titles and dignity of rank. Mountbatten-Windsor is designated for use when a surname is required, but it is not their name. Neither means anything in the peerage or history of the UK as they are simply made-up. The Queen is a descendant of the Houses of Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha through her father and the Scottish aristocracy through her mother.

Only children of the sovereign can use "The" before their titular dignity. Beatrice, Eugenie, William and Harry are simply Prince/Princess Christian name.

Lady Louise is styled as such with the assent of the Queen. Legally, she is HRH Princess Louise of Wessex, not the way you have written it above.

According to the official webpage of Her Majesty.
"At the time of their wedding it was decided, with the couple's agreement, that any children they have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an earl.

Accordingly, their daughter is known as The Lady Louise Windsor."

 

[Margrethe II]

British royals do not need surnames since they hold titles and dignity of rank. Mountbatten-Windsor is designated for use when a surname is required, but it is not their name. Neither means anything in the peerage or history of the UK as they are simply made-up. The Queen is a descendant of the Houses of Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha through her father and the Scottish aristocracy through her mother.


Only children of the sovereign can use "The" before their titular dignity. Beatrice, Eugenie, William and Harry are simply Prince/Princess Christian name.

Lady Louise is styled as such with the assent of the Queen. Legally, she is HRH Princess Louise of Wessex, not the way you have written it above.

Sure, they may not need a surname, but the fact of the matter is that they use Mountbatten Windsor as one.

I am also sure it means something to those who hold the name Windsor Mountbatten. Whether it means anything in the peerage or history of the UK or not.

of course the Queen is descendant of the House of Hanover, but Saxe-Coburg and Hanover is infact incorrect when referring to the British royal line.

Oh my mistake. I did seem to get rather "The" happy didnt I?

You dont like being constructively corrected do you branchg? Actually, the way I referred to Pricness Louise is infact the correct way. I acknowleged both Louise's titles (legal and chosen title (for the time being) so as to avoid this exact discussion with people who are never satisfied). Maybe I should have used brackets instead.

"MII"

 

[Margrethe II]

I understand too, that the decision was more Her Majesty wishing to acknowledge the significance of HRH The Prince Philip, and the family he comes from. As he was forced to renounce his Royal Greek/Danish titles, it was a sign of her affection for him, and in a way strengthening his identity.

Excellent point Von Schlesian

"MII"

 

[Von Schlesian]

Philip is a descendant of the Imperial House of Romanov through his paternal grandmother, Grand Duchess Olga, who became Queen Olga of Greece when she married Prince Wilhelm of Denmark, who became King of the Hellenes.

Descendant. Yes
Member of the family and therefore 'Glucksburg-Battenberg-Romanov. I don't think so. However, I do understand why you included it in your post.

Margrethe II, (I understood your reference to Lady Louise of Wessex and her correct styles).

 

[branchg]

According to the official webpage of Her Majesty.
"At the time of their wedding it was decided, with the couple's agreement, that any children they have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an earl.

Accordingly, their daughter is known as The Lady Louise Windsor."

It is an informal assent from the Sovereign, similar to allowing Alice, Dowager Duchess of Gloucester, to assume the titular dignity of Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, when Prince Richard married Brigitte. It is not a Royal Warrant allowing Louise to relinquish her rank and titular dignity that is automatically hers under George V's 1917 Letters Patent.

Until the Queen or a future Charles III issues new letters patent clarifying the matter, Louise is still a Royal Highness and Princess if she so chooses at some point.

 

[caroline mathilda]

I'm not sure if that was infact the reason behind the change of surname. Sure Lord Louis was an influential figure in both Philip & Charles' lives, but I do believe the change of surname came from Philip himself. Earl Mountbatten was most pleased though, theres no denying that.

"MII"

Hi MII,
The addition of Mountbatten to the Windsor surname for future descendents of the monarch who require a surname was in fact a compromise. Lord Mountbatten wanted very badly for the Royal house to be called Mountbatten. Winston Churchill was adamently opposed: he strongly supported the continued use of the name Windsor.

Thus the combo reflected the Queen's desire for maintaining tradition and honouring Phillip and his family. The Royal House would continue to be called Windsor but non-titled future descendents would take up the double barreled name.

As an earlier poster noted, Phillip gave up so much, dynastically speaking, to become a Prince of the United Kingdom and forever walk a few paces behind his wife, the Queen.

Caroline Mathilda

 

[branchg]

We're assuming that Philip even cared about the issue of the "Mountbatten" name, which Hugo Vickers makes clear in his biography of Philip's mother, Princess Alice, was being driven by Lord Mountbatten, rather than the Duke.

As noted by other posters, Philip was a member of the House of Glucksburg, which ruled in Greece, and the House of Hesse-Darmstadt through his mother. Battenberg was simply a style created for his maternal great-grandfather, who married Julie Von Hauke morganatically, and was granted the title HSH Prince von Battenberg by Grand Duke Louis of Hesse. Either way, Philip is half-German, 1/4 Danish and 1/4 Russian.

By marrying Princess Elizabeth, he was granted the great honor of rank of a Royal Highness and a dukedom by George VI, even though technically he had reliniquished his rank as a Prince of Greece and Denmark. Later, he was granted by precedence ahead of all other male royals, including the heir to the throne, by Parliament and given the titular dignity of Prince of the UK.

Given his humble beginnings from a poor royal house in a dubious country, I think he attained great prominence of rank and title.

 

[Elspeth]

We're assuming that Philip even cared about the issue of the "Mountbatten" name, which Hugo Vickers makes clear in his biography of Philip's mother, Princess Alice, was being driven by Lord Mountbatten, rather than the Duke.

Well, but this was the issue that precipitated his "I'm nothing but a bloody amoeba!" tirade, wasn't it? It seems as though he cared although probably for personal reasons rather than ones of ambition like Mountbatten.

 

[branchg]

Well, but this was the issue that precipitated his "I'm nothing but a bloody amoeba!" tirade, wasn't it? It seems as though he cared although probably for personal reasons rather than ones of ambition like Mountbatten.

Until Prince Philip releases a biography, we don't really know if he even said it, or if he did, in what context. We do know from Vickers that Dickie Mountbatten was complaining about the status and title of Philip shortly after the ascension of Elizabeth II. Philip was unconcerned and appeared to be satisfied with the Queen's declaration of rank and precedence for him as Duke of Edinburgh, which was at all times beside the Sovereign.

Prince Philip has always preferred to be addressed as "The Duke" and has never particularly enamored of royal protocol and formalities.

 

[ysbel]

Until Prince Philip releases a biography, we don't really know if he even said it, or if he did, in what context. We do know from Vickers that Dickie Mountbatten was complaining about the status and title of Philip shortly after the ascension of Elizabeth II. Philip was unconcerned and appeared to be satisfied with the Queen's declaration of rank and precedence for him as Duke of Edinburgh, which was at all times beside the Sovereign.

Prince Philip has always preferred to be addressed as "The Duke" and has never particularly enamored of royal protocol and formalities.

I haven't been able to follow whether Charles will ever reign as much for watching the newest Glucksborg prince being born in Copenhagen.

But Prince Philip did say that he was not allowed to hand down to his children the one thing that every other father did as a natural course and that one thing was his name. Whatever context the statement was made in, the meaning is pretty clear.

 

[branchg]

But Prince Philip did say that he was not allowed to hand down to his children the one thing that every other father did as a natural course and that one thing was his name. Whatever context the statement was made in, the meaning is pretty clear.

Well, Philip's name was Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, not Mountbatten. With the ascension of Charles III, the British royal house would become the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg!

 

[branchg]

Charles isnt changing his family name. From what I hear him and his dad are not buddy buddy and I dont think he wants his fathers name as the name of Britians Royal Family. I like Windsor. I think it is the perfect name. I dont really understand your coincides though.

Regardless, when Charles comes to the throne, technically the House of Windsor would become the House of Mountbatten-Windsor. If Charles is so inclined, he could ask Parliament for its assent and change the name if the Prime Minister agrees.

 

[tiaraprin]

I haven't been able to follow whether Charles will ever reign as much for watching the newest Glucksborg prince being born in Copenhagen.

But Prince Philip did say that he was not allowed to hand down to his children the one thing that every other father did as a natural course and that one thing was his name. Whatever context the statement was made in, the meaning is pretty clear.

What happened was that Earl Mountbatten was bragging around the time that Elizabeth succeeded to the throne, that the Royal House's name changed to Mountbatten. Queen Mary, who was still alive, heard of Mountbatten's boasts and became quite angry and summoned Winston Churchill, then Prime Minister, to her presence. She informed Mr. Churchill of the Earl's bold boasts and Churchill advised The Queen that a formal announcement should be made that the family's name remained Windsor. Philip was angry at being marginalized once again at a time when the courtiers were giving him a rough time and stated he was only a "bloody ameoba" used for breeding purposes.

In 1960, when The Queen was more secure in her role, amended that the family name be Mountbatten-Windsor by royal decree.

You would think the Duke would then have had more sympathy for Diana and Sarah after his experiences, but alas he didn't.

 

[ysbel]

Well, Philip's name was Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, not Mountbatten. With the ascension of Charles III, the British royal house would become the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg!

That's a good point, branchg. However, I think the way Prince Philip's father and Greek relatives left him in the lurch after the 1921 exodus from Greece left a bad taste in his mouth for that side of the family.

The Battenbergs at least seemed to take care of their own a lot better. It doesn't nullify your point though, which is an excellent one.

 

[ysbel]

What happened was that Earl Mountbatten was bragging around the time that Elizabeth succeeded to the throne, that the Royal House's name changed to Mountbatten. Queen Mary, who was still alive, heard of Mountbatten's boasts and became quite angry and summoned Winston Churchill, then Prime Minister, to her presence. She informed Mr. Churchill of the Earl's bold boasts and Churchill advised The Queen that a formal announcement should be made that the family's name remained Windsor.

I've heard this several times and if Queen Mary did say that, it was petty and spiteful. Prince Philip was not the Earl of Mountbatten; they didn't even get along. For Queen Mary to want to bring Philip down a notch to spite his uncle was just wrong. But that generation often made the sons pay for the sins of the fathers so to speak.

 

[branchg]

I've heard this several times and if Queen Mary did say that, it was petty and spiteful. Prince Philip was not the Earl of Mountbatten; they didn't even get along. For Queen Mary to want to bring Philip down a notch to spite his uncle was just wrong. But that generation often made the sons pay for the sins of the fathers so to speak.

Also, Earl Mountbatten's celebratory bragging was quite premature! Elizabeth II is a reigning monarch of the House of Windsor (or more accurately, the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha). When Charles ascends the throne, the royal house would technically become Mountbatten-Windsor under the new Sovereign.

 

[tiaraprin]

Also, Earl Mountbatten's celebratory bragging was quite premature! Elizabeth II is a reigning monarch of the House of Windsor (or more accurately, the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha). When Charles ascends the throne, the royal house would technically become Mountbatten-Windsor under the new Sovereign.

The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha name was relinqushed in 1917 when George V declared the Family be known as the House of Windsor. Also, Mountbatten was not premature. It did technically become the House of Mountbatten. Even though Elizabeth became Queen, she still took her husband's last name. If there was no way that the House could have changed names, Queen Mary would not have gotten into so much of an uproar. This is a lady who knew the most minute details of Royalty.

 

[Warren]

If there was no way that the House could have changed names, Queen Mary would not have gotten into so much of an uproar. This is a lady who knew the most minute details of Royalty.

I know we have discussed this subject before, but it is always interesting. Rather than being petty I think Queen Mary (warned by Prince Ernst August of Hanover) was doing what any Matriarch worth her salt would do: protecting her Dynasty, the House of Widsor, and seeing off the over-ambitious interloper. A little power play, where Lord Mountbatten met his match. A morganatic Hesse prince outmanoeuvred by a morganatic Württemberg princess. That must have been galling for the First Sea Lord and Commander of the Allied Forces in the Far East!
.