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  #1281  
Old 11-21-2008, 09:21 PM
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Thomasine and Iluvbertie both make good points and they are each right in their own way. Iluvbertie wrote from the historical perspective, using the historical method, which is important for its own sake. And Thomasine wrote from a very thoughtful, compassionate, well-meaning viewpoint that should never be discounted. Thanks to both of you for sharing your perspectives.

Thank you also, branchg, for tackling my musing about Camilla's own wishes.

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  #1282  
Old 11-21-2008, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Why must everything be about Diana? Is it not possible that some people dont like/respect Charles and Camilla because of certain past behavior? I would list the well documented past behavior I am talking about, but a moderator indicated that it might cause TRF to be sued. I certainly wouldnt want that. So you will have to content your self with this: There was a transcript published all over the world...CNN, ITV, FOX, BBC.... And lets just say that there is an audio recording, so there is no doubt of those persons involved.
Elspeth, I would like to preface this by saying I'm only answering a question which as been put to me and am not deliberately inciting a riot or what-have-you here so please don't fuss on me...

Scooter, you ask why must everything be about Diana--and the answer is quite simple: because in the past everything has been about Diana, or rather those that continue to believe they speak for her. While I do think that Camilla choosing to use the Duchess of Cornwall title had more to do with her respect for the memory of her step-children, I also think that pressure from the Diana-its (who made it all about Diana--loudly) did cause the cave from Clarence House. I also think that if Camilla does instead become known as HRH The Princess Consort it will be because of pressure and outcries from those who continue to make it all about Diana. I am not discounting Diana's role as the mother of the future monarch, or her place in history, but to decide that Camilla cannot be Queen because, inadvertently, of Diana, is really a touch trivial. More important things are at stake here than the memory of a divorced spouse of the British Royal Family--precedence, tradition, and the law. I think that it is a clear cut thing right now--if Charles ascends she becomes Queen by right of marriage. In order to make it anything less requires letters patents, laws, meetings, etc..... it is all entirely too complicated and tricky.
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  #1283  
Old 11-21-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Why must everything be about Diana? Is it not possible that some people dont like/respect Charles and Camilla because of certain past behavior? I would list the well documented past behavior I am talking about, but a moderator indicated that it might cause TRF to be sued. I certainly wouldnt want that. So you will have to content your self with this: There was a transcript published all over the world...CNN, ITV, FOX, BBC.... And lets just say that there is an audio recording, so there is no doubt of those persons involved.
You mean, certain past behaviour that didn't have anything to do with Diana? This would be past behaviour pre-1980, presumably. If it was behaviour after the Wales marriage, then of course it had to do with Diana.
  #1284  
Old 11-21-2008, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Elspeth, I would like to preface this by saying I'm only answering a question which as been put to me and am not deliberately inciting a riot or what-have-you here so please don't fuss on me...
Elspeth, the British Forum terrorist....

oh what joy
  #1285  
Old 11-22-2008, 02:35 PM
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Wicked funny!

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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Elspeth, the British Forum terrorist....

oh what joy
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  #1286  
Old 11-22-2008, 02:42 PM
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I think most British people when the time comes will be saying Long Live King Charles and Queen Camilla. There will be commemorative cups, saucers and plates on every sideboard saying just that.
As the wife of the King she will have every right to be called Queen and after waiting for so long to marry him it is only right that she should be.
By the time that comes, we hope, some people will be asking "Who was Diana?".
  #1287  
Old 11-22-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I think most British people when the time comes will be saying Long Live King Charles and Queen Camilla. There will be commemorative cups, saucers and plates on every sideboard saying just that.
As the wife of the King she will have every right to be called Queen and after waiting for so long to marry him it is only right that she should be.
By the time that comes, we hope, some people will be asking "Who was Diana?".

Kids who have entered High School in the last year or so are already asking that as they were too young to know anything about her in a conscious way.

If the Queen lives another 10 years then people of voting age won't have a conscious memory of Diana. To these young people Camilla will be the only wife of Charles they know and they will be asking why isn't she Queen. From my experience of dealing with some of them on a daily basis they are very concerned about equality for women and justice for all.
  #1288  
Old 11-22-2008, 06:39 PM
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LOL!!

I cannot believe this thread has reached 4 parts. She is all the titles, legally and historically. She will be Queen consort automatically UNLESS some law is repealed or changed, etc.......that is....how it is.

I am not a fan of the woman by any means, but the laws and precedence stand above my own personal view.
  #1289  
Old 11-22-2008, 07:06 PM
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Thanks Lady Marmalade, for this precise statement regarding her title
  #1290  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:37 AM
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What happened to the title 'Princess Consort' The public didn't come up with that one, the royals did. When was the latest confirmation from CH that D of C would be known as the 'Princess Consort', are they going to deny it or break their promise.
  #1291  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:57 AM
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"Whoopsy, we didn't check the laws thoroughly enough."

It worked for moving the civil ceremony to the Guildhall, at least.
  #1292  
Old 11-23-2008, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ada View Post
What happened to the title 'Princess Consort' The public didn't come up with that one, the royals did. When was the latest confirmation from CH that D of C would be known as the 'Princess Consort', are they going to deny it or break their promise.
'

There was no 'promise' at all. It was stated as an 'intention'. However, before the wedding took place the matter was raised in Parliament and it was confirmed there that she would legally be Queen on Charles' accession just as now she is legally The Princess of Wales.

Using the Duchess of Cornwall title is possible without any other action because Charles holds the title Duke of Cornwall (and has done so for longer than he has been Prince of Wales). He has been Duke of Cornwall as long, exactly, as the Queen has been Queen.

The problem with her using the Princess Consort title is that Charles won't have a commensurate title for her to be using and so legislation has to be passed to strip her of the title Queen and then Letters Patent have to be issued granting her the title Princess Consort.
  #1293  
Old 11-23-2008, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
'

There was no 'promise' at all. It was stated as an 'intention'. However, before the wedding took place the matter was raised in Parliament and it was confirmed there that she would legally be Queen on Charles' accession just as now she is legally The Princess of Wales.

Using the Duchess of Cornwall title is possible without any other action because Charles holds the title Duke of Cornwall (and has done so for longer than he has been Prince of Wales). He has been Duke of Cornwall as long, exactly, as the Queen has been Queen.

The problem with her using the Princess Consort title is that Charles won't have a commensurate title for her to be using and so legislation has to be passed to strip her of the title Queen and then Letters Patent have to be issued granting her the title Princess Consort.
Wbenson, now the laws has been checked thoroughly.... even laws that has not come into existence

Thanks Iluvbertie for explaining the reasons why the title "Princess Consort" has not come into use.
  #1294  
Old 11-23-2008, 08:50 AM
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^Remember that Prince Charles is a romantic with a lot of admiration for Queen V's Prince Consort. Yes, I think the wording of the Princess Consort idea was stated like "HRH intends to use the style of Princess Consort."

Wbenson, "whoopsy" is right, I think. Besides being a constitutional tap dance, it would also be so weird to have to refer to His Majesty The King and Her Royal Highness The Princess Consort. I just can't see it.
  #1295  
Old 11-23-2008, 09:01 AM
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If I remember rightly the beloved Prince Albert was quite put out when he found he was going to be known as the Prince Consort and not King..... from what I have read he was in fact quite "miffed"......Actually I believe that the royal family are not that attached to the memory of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria instructed that all male descendants be called Albert, quite a few were but only King George V was actually known by the family as Albert and when he became King he quite pointedly picked George as his official name. I doubt Prince Charles would find it such a wonderful idea to call Camilla the Princess Consort because of any attachment to the memory of Albert the Good.
  #1296  
Old 11-23-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Why must everything be about Diana? Is it not possible that some people dont like/respect Charles and Camilla because of certain past behavior? I would list the well documented past behavior I am talking about, but a moderator indicated that it might cause TRF to be sued. I certainly wouldnt want that. So you will have to content your self with this: There was a transcript published all over the world...CNN, ITV, FOX, BBC.... And lets just say that there is an audio recording, so there is no doubt of those persons involved.
We all know the transcript, right. But I for one are not interested in the sexual preferences of other people when it comes to like them or respect them. The Prince of Wales has done so much good in his life, that warrants my respect, here I see his contribution to his people and his country. I'm not interested in his pillowtalk as this is his private life, it's no part of his place in the community of people.
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  #1297  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:03 PM
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That audio tape was so embarrassing. I was so humiliated for him about that. I can't imagine, how that tape being heard by everyone would just make me cringe for him and Camilla. I would just die if it was me. I could never go on in public, I don't think so. I am so relieved I'm not royal.
  #1298  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:09 PM
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Me too, something like that being made public about me would make me at least try and find a Trappist order for women...... I don´t think I would ever be able to show my face in public again, but then he is Royal.....nothing, no stupid thing he says or does can change that. He is Royal and that is that. As CasiraghiTrio said , an ordinary human being would try and find the nearest hole and stay there.
That is the reason I think that anyone "strange" to the royal way of life would have an extremely hard time. I don´t count Camilla as she has been close to the royal family all her life and I am sure she can stand it, in fact she has proved she can.
  #1299  
Old 11-23-2008, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
If I remember rightly the beloved Prince Albert was quite put out when he found he was going to be known as the Prince Consort and not King..... from what I have read he was in fact quite "miffed"......

I believe Victoria wanted him given the title King Consort before the marriage but Lord Melbourne advised her that only Parliament can create a King and so if they gave Albert the title King Consort then Parliament could just as easily take away the title. She acquiesced.

Some 17 years after the marriage, in 1857, his was finally created Prince Consort so only held that title for 4 and a bit years before his death.

Quote:
Actually I believe that the royal family are not that attached to the memory of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria instructed that all male descendants be called Albert, quite a few were but only King George V was actually known by the family as Albert and when he became King he quite pointedly picked George as his official name. I doubt Prince Charles would find it such a wonderful idea to call Camilla the Princess Consort because of any attachment to the memory of Albert the Good.

Small correction. It was George VI who was named Albert, because he was born on the 14th December, the anniversary of Albert's death.

Like his grandfather, also named Albert, he was called Bertie throughout his life. His uncle, also christened Albert (Victor) was always called Eddy.
  #1300  
Old 11-23-2008, 03:24 PM
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By the time that comes, we hope, some people will be asking "Who was Diana?".
Oh please!


IMO Camilla should be queen. I'm not a fan of hers, but I beleive in tradition and tradition should be upheld. I'm wondering how long Clarence House will keep saying that Camilla will be known as "Princess Consort."
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