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  #961  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Oh come on, must everything be Diana's fault even after all of this time?
Nobody's saying it's Diana's fault. They're saying it's the fault of the people who viewed Diana as a perfect saint and Charles as the paragon of evil.

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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Look, it was going to be an uphill battle when they decided they wanted to marry, constitutionally as well as the man in the street issue.
There wasn't a constitutional hill to climb, though, other than gaining the Queen's permission, which I think she would have given, even if slightly reluctantly (I don't think it was as reluctant as many think, though.) They've made a constitutional hill out of this "Princess Consort" nonsense, though.
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  #962  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Thomas Parker Bowles is a Parker from the Earl of Macclesfield-family. It is a very old tradition that if a member of a noble family does special services to the king he is elevated to a rank similar to that of the Head of the family or even beyond that. Just think of Arthur Wellesley...

So why should this old tradition not apply to the step-(and god-) son of the future king?
Personal service? What service could he possibly undertake in all seriousness? That any creation of a peerage would not be because of any service he may povide Charles, but because he is his step son, would be more likely, and I'm sure that if it were to ever happen, a flimsy excuse is what would be given, if any.

Secondly, I wouldn't care to see him elevated in anyway, when it's been my experience of Tom, that the man is a pretentious ignoramus. A shame because his sister is really quite lovely. Probably takes after her mother.
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  #963  
Old 05-02-2008, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyCat View Post
I was under the impression that titles passd through the male line by law, that tiles held by females became extinct upon their death. I know there were several titles that became extinct when there was no male to inherit, with the except being the sovereign.

Cat
It all depends of the special reminders of the Letters Patent. There are peerages that can be inherited through the female line and others who can't. A peer without children or only with daughters may hold several titles and each title is being treated differently. So one might go extinct or pass into another branch of the family and another one might end up with the daughter. If you're interested, look up "Sutherland". That's interesting because a Marquess had married a Countess in her own right and the king created the Marquess a duke with his wife's name. But when the last duke died without children, the dukedom of Sutherland along with the peerage of the marquess went to a very distant relative who is now Duke of Sutherland while the earldom ended up with the late duke's niece, who is now the Countess of Sutherland...
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  #964  
Old 05-02-2008, 03:59 AM
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Madame Royale, I didn't say that Charles will create him a peer
Jo, I didn't say you did.
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  #965  
Old 05-02-2008, 07:50 AM
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Thank you Jo of Palentine and everyone else for setting me straight on the whole business of titles that are "inherited". You learn something new every day!

Cat
  #966  
Old 05-02-2008, 08:10 AM
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Cat, there's a nice lady called Laura out there who once, back in the 90ties, collected information of all kinds about titles of the British nobility. She addressed it to the readers and authors of historical novels, especially romances, because it's unbelievable how much errors appear there.

I found the page highly interesting and very informative. As it's good to read either, maybe you like to look around it?

British Titles of Nobility

Have fun!
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'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
  #967  
Old 05-02-2008, 09:32 AM
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I've copied or moved some of the more informative posts over to The British Nobility Thread.
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  #968  
Old 05-02-2008, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Jo, Fantastic site! Thank you for the link; it's nice to have something at one's fingertips.
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  #969  
Old 05-02-2008, 09:46 AM
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I place little faith in these so-called public opinion polls, as they usually are not in keeping with actually public opinion for various reasons. Let's face it, the person most likely to respond to an open poll is the person strongly against the subject. Those who are ambivalent or "for" it generally feel no need to voice it, the detractors are not so silent.
Sorry, but... how can you possibly say that public opinion polls don't actually reflect public opinion? Polling is a well-defined practice, and while it's possible to skew results based on how the questions are worded, random polls do actually attract a random sampling of the population. Statistical analysis does the rest.

And I repeat my earlier statement: This whole 'debate' is so much poppycock.
  #970  
Old 05-02-2008, 12:23 PM
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We seem to have wandered into that quagmire of discussing the Charles & Camilla relationship and marriage in terms of 'morality'.
Those posts have been moved here.

It would be better if the 'Title for Camilla' thread is kept to the topic of Camilla's future title and the options and technicalities which may be involved.

thanks,
Warren
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  #971  
Old 07-11-2008, 03:43 PM
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Camilla's style of "HRH The Duchess of Cornwall" translates as follows:

French: SAR Duchesse de Cornouailles
Spanish: SHR Duquesa de Cornualles
Italian: SHR Duchessa di Cornovaglia
Portuguese: SHR Duquesa da Cornualha
German: IKH Herzogin von Cornwall
Swedish: HKH Hertiginna av Cornwall
Danish: HKH Hertuginde af Cornwall
Dutch: HKH Hertogin van Cornwall
  #972  
Old 07-11-2008, 04:29 PM
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Scooter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Why do you think they floated the whole 'Princess Consort' title rather than say yes she will be queen?
In an attempt to make it more palatable. That's it in a nutshell.
  #973  
Old 07-11-2008, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio View Post
Camilla's style of "HRH The Duchess of Cornwall" translates as follows:
Thanks for all the information CasiraghiTrio.
  #974  
Old 07-11-2008, 06:16 PM
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^

Welsh: Duges Cernyw (no idea how to put HRH into Welsh)

Norwegian: HKH Hertuginnen av Cornwall
  #975  
Old 07-14-2008, 02:27 PM
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IMO the whole "Princess Consort" idea is rather silly.

Even George IV was unsuccessful in trying to strip his disgraceful wife, Caroline, of the title of Queen (of course, GIV was no great prize either).

Granted the situations aren't entirely analogous (GIV and Caroline hating each other, while the Waleses seem to be getting along) and Charles merely wanting to call his queen by a different title, it is totally against precedent. I think if the woman's married to the king, then queen she ought to be and she ought to be recognized as such.
  #976  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monika_ View Post
In an attempt to make it more palatable. That's it in a nutshell.
I think you may well be right, Monika. IMO, there is a certain disingenuousness there. If they had come right out and said Yes, by Golly, It's going to be Queen Camilla with all the bells and whistles, they knew there would be more resistance to the marriage. So instead, they said why no, no no, Camilla will be Princess Consort, all the while figuring that Camilla-aversion would decline over the years and when/if Charles inherited, they'd slip the Queen Camilla part in. All of this of course, presupposes that both Charles and Camilla outlive Queen Elizabeth, who may well live another 25 years as her mother did. That would make Charles and Camilla in the 85 year old range, so it may be a moot point. If Charles predeseased Camilla, her title would be HRH Camilla, Dowager Duchess of Cornwall, as William would become the new Duke of Cornwall, right?
  #977  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iowabelle View Post
IMO the whole "Princess Consort" idea is rather silly.

Even George IV was unsuccessful in trying to strip his disgraceful wife, Caroline, of the title of Queen (of course, GIV was no great prize either).

Granted the situations aren't entirely analogous (GIV and Caroline hating each other, while the Waleses seem to be getting along) and Charles merely wanting to call his queen by a different title, it is totally against precedent. I think if the woman's married to the king, then queen she ought to be and she ought to be recognized as such.
Very well said. I agree with you 100%.
  #978  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:28 PM
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I have a hunch that the "princess consort" idea is only a PR line from Clarence House, who I don't believe ever intend to deny Camilla of the title of Queen Consort. When it comes to the point, she will be Queen Consort and that will be the end of the matter. This is just my opinion though. Maybe I'm wrong but I always felt this way from the day of the marriage.
  #979  
Old 07-14-2008, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
If Charles predeseased Camilla, her title would be HRH Camilla, Dowager Duchess of Cornwall, as William would become the new Duke of Cornwall, right?
The Duke of Cornwall is always the eldest son of the sovereign, so if Charles predeceases HM, William would not be the Duke of Cornwall.
  #980  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:08 PM
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Really? An interesting new thread would be: If Charles predeceases the Queen, and William cannot be Duke of Cornwall , then what does income the heir support himself through? Charles is pretty much funded through the Duchy, I believe. So back on topic...If William is not eligable for Duke of Cornwall, strike the 'Dowager bit'...HRH Camilla Duchess of Cornwall, if Charles pre-deseaces Camilla while Queen Elizabeth is still alive.
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