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  #941  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyCat View Post
As title pass through the male lne, any title Camilla is given in her own right - such as Princess of the UK - would die with her.

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No, it would depend of the Letters Patent for the creation of her own peerage. It would be up to the souverain to decide it. If it was a title in the range of marchioness or above, Tom and Laura normally would be "Lord Thomas Parker Bowles" and "Lady Laura Lopes", as the children of a peeress in her own right have the same rights as children of a peer. See eg. the two daughters of Lady Mountbatten of Burma and her husband Lord Brabourne are styled as "Lady Joanne" and "Lady Amanda" even though their father was just a mere Baron, because they are the daughters of a countess in her own right.
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  #942  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:53 AM
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Perhaps I should have been more clear with my question--there are titles that women have held in their own--The first Duke of Marlborough's daughter inherited her father's peerage and was the Duchess of Marlborough in her own right. Also, Scottish peerages are able to pass through the woman in her own right. Countess Mountbatten of Burma is the daugther of Lord Louis Mountbatten and holds the title in her own right. So, women can hold titles in their own right and if, as part of a "deal" Camilla takes a lesser title then perhaps she would be willing to take a title which would be hers that could pass to her son or daughter. Is this not a possibility?
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  #943  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:00 AM
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Of course this is possible. Depends on the Letter Patents.
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  #944  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:09 AM
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Thank you, Jo! If I were Camilla and I was told I couldn't be Queen, I would be looking at this possibility. Could she be HRH The Princess Consort, Duchess/Countess of Highgrove or something? (the only thing I could think of , sorry, I just needed filler).
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  #945  
Old 05-01-2008, 10:37 AM
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It would be entirely within the gift of The Sovereign (her husband) to decide what titles she would hold and whether they would be hereditary (highly doubtful).
  #946  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:08 PM
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Why would it be highly doubtful? If Camilla has to give up a title that is rightfully hers to appease irrational minds, then why shouldn't she receive something that is hers alone? I think it is an interesting thought to consider.
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  #947  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:20 PM
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It would be hers alone regardless of whether a hereditary peerage is created. By giving up the title of Queen, Camilla would be created a Princess of the UK in her own right as HRH The Princess Consort.

Unless she strongly desires her son to become a Peer in due time, it seems unlikely to me she would care about having a hereditary title to pass on.
  #948  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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There is no reason why her son should become a peer through his mother's union. None whatsoever.
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  #949  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:22 PM
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There is no reason why her son should become a peer through his mother's union. None whatsoever.
Thomas Parker Bowles is a Parker from the Earl of Macclesfield-family. It is a very old tradition that if a member of a noble family does special services to the king he is elevated to a rank similar to that of the Head of the family or even beyond that. Just think of Arthur Wellesley...

So why should this old tradition not apply to the step-(and god-) son of the future king?
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  #950  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:27 PM
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Okay, but what service has he done the Queen/Future King/realm?
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  #951  
Old 05-01-2008, 02:31 PM
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Okay, but what service has he done the Queen/Future King/realm?
What do I know? Helped Charles through the emotionally very daring situation of his divorce?

We either accept that the souverain is the "fount of all honours" or not. If so, the souverain may elevate whoever he thinks is worthy to whichever rank. If not, leave it all to Gordon Brown.
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  #952  
Old 05-01-2008, 03:32 PM
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The divorce was accepted by all and life goes on. They are married now, Camilla shares her husband's current rank and title (with the concession to Diana's memory by using her ducal title as her style) and there is no reason why she should be denied the right to be Queen.

Even if Diana was alive today, she was never going to be Queen, so why should Camilla be punished?
  #953  
Old 05-01-2008, 06:02 PM
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Why do you think they floated the whole 'Princess Consort' title rather than say yes she will be queen?
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:18 PM
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I think they were afraid of certain elements that wish to see Diana crowned Queen of the World for Eternity.
  #955  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:07 PM
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I think they were also afraid of the elements (probably the same ones as above) who were getting rather strident about wanting to see William succeed the Queen and bypass Charles. Perhaps they thought that the prospect of Queen Camilla would rally more people to the Charles-must-step-aside camp. Especially since Diana had hinted in the Panorama interview that that's what she wanted.
  #956  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
No, it would depend of the Letters Patent for the creation of her own peerage. It would be up to the souverain to decide it. If it was a title in the range of marchioness or above, Tom and Laura normally would be "Lord Thomas Parker Bowles" and "Lady Laura Lopes", as the children of a peeress in her own right have the same rights as children of a peer. See eg. the two daughters of Lady Mountbatten of Burma and her husband Lord Brabourne are styled as "Lady Joanne" and "Lady Amanda" even though their father was just a mere Baron, because they are the daughters of a countess in her own right.
I was under the impression that titles passd through the male line by law, that tiles held by females became extinct upon their death. I know there were several titles that became extinct when there was no male to inherit, with the except being the sovereign.

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  #957  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jcbcode99 View Post
Why would it be highly doubtful? If Camilla has to give up a title that is rightfully hers to appease irrational minds, then why shouldn't she receive something that is hers alone? I think it is an interesting thought to consider.
"Irrational minds" being the key words here! Why should Camilla be denied the rightful title of Queen just because a bunch of Dianaphites abhor the fact? It seems a bit absurd as Diana would never have been Queen anyway. Elspeth's explanation makes perfect sense, that it is to appease those "irrational minds" who would rather see Charles step aside in favor of William based on Diana's Panorama interview. Even 10 years on the woman holds too much sway in the opinions of others. The British monarchy has survived quite a bit over the centuries, I have a feeling it will survive Queen Camilla!

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  #958  
Old 05-01-2008, 08:51 PM
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"Irrational minds" being the key words here! Why should Camilla be denied the rightful title of Queen just because a bunch of Dianaphites abhor the fact? It seems a bit absurd as Diana would never have been Queen anyway. Elspeth's explanation makes perfect sense, that it is to appease those "irrational minds" who would rather see Charles step aside in favor of William based on Diana's Panorama interview. Even 10 years on the woman holds too much sway in the opinions of others. The British monarchy has survived quite a bit over the centuries, I have a feeling it will survive Queen Camilla!

Cat
Oh come on, must everything be Diana's fault even after all of this time? Is there no accountability on the side of Prince Charles to take responsability his actions? Is it not possible that some people dont like Charles for reasons that have more to do with his own decisions/actions than Diana's long ago Panorama interview? I think it's pretty convenient to say that its all people with 'irrational minds'. Look, it was going to be an uphill battle when they decided they wanted to marry, constitutionally as well as the man in the street issue. There was a BBC poll at the time of the engagement that about 2/3 of the respondants took the position that if Charles wanted to marry Camilla he should step down from the succession. Perhaps you view all of those people as all dianaphites, but they are the pool of the population.
As far as Camilla being 'denied', has the palace not come right out asnd said that Camilla wishes to be known as the Princess Consort? If it's what she wants what is the problem?
  #959  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:11 PM
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I don't think the Palace has said anything about wishing it, they've just said that this is how she'll be known.
  #960  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:30 PM
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I was under the impression that titles passd through the male line by law, that tiles held by females became extinct upon their death.
If a title that passes to heirs male is held by a female for whatever reason (either by special remainder or the original grant), then they continue on to sons of the female. For example, when Countess Mountbatten dies, her son Lord Brabourne will become Earl Mountbatten, and he was known by his mother's subsidiary title of Lord Romsey until he became Lord Brabourne in his own right after the death of his father.
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