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  #701  
Old 01-30-2008, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
We don't know that. We can ony surmise given she married an heir to a throne...
Madame Royale, I am speechless. Well, actually, you know that is impossible , but I really understand your post--and I have to say that you make a very good point. I also think that the title of HRH Duchess suits Camilla very well--it is regal and sophisticated and elegant--just like her. I admire your reasons for wanting Camilla to be HRH The Princess Consort, and I canot help but on one level to agree with you but I am still of the mind that Camilla has the right to be Queen Camilla. Just as I thought that Princess Lilian should have been Queen Lilian--I firmly feel that the wife deserves the same style as the husband. Call me old-fashioned--it's who I am! But, should Camilla become HRH The Princess Consort I will remember you words and I think I will be able to sit back and smile.
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  #702  
Old 01-30-2008, 11:22 PM
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You really are a sweetheart, jcbcode99 I am glade you see my intent, for what it is.

I too understand you're reasons and the reasons of many others who believe Camilla should remain Queen. She is his wife, and the wife of the King is his Queen.

I guess the major difference between our respective opinions is that I'm not talking of rights or entitlements, but of bestowing a gift, an honour and a privilege to someone I see as worthy of such a break in tradition. Personally, I'm not viewing this possibility of change as an equality issue, but as something extroardinary and unmatched...
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  #703  
Old 01-30-2008, 11:26 PM
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Well, I agree it doesn't necessarily have to be the end of the world for Camilla to be HRH The Princess Consort instead of Queen. After all, she is a second wife and not the mother of the King's children, so the traditional precedents have already been broken anyway.

And the truth is Charles is likely to be quite old by the time he ascends the throne and his reign will be relatively short. Given all the monarchy has survived for thousands of years, it can certainly evolve and move on from his wife not being Queen Consort.
  #704  
Old 01-31-2008, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Well I'd just go with the same title tbh. If a man marries Sir Mincing Merrily then he becomes Sir Justin Queer.


You crack me up BeatrixFan!!!!!!

I assume that's why Sir Eltons' partner isn't Lady David??????


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Wasn't it a while ago that someone in the college of arms proposed "Laddy" for the husband of a knight? I remember thinking it would sound ridiculous. There has to be something out there better than "Laddy," which sounds like something one calls a pet dog.
I saw in Hello that the title for Bill Clinton should Hilary win office had been suggested as Laddie by some of his Scots' friends!
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  #705  
Old 01-31-2008, 09:37 AM
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As far as I understand it, Maxima will be known as Queen Maxima. The thread that is being bandied about here, is one that is a discussion of a new act passed in the Netherlands, but they've made no specific provisions as to Maxima. And as this was passed after their marriage, it is likely that she will be known as Queen. There has been no official or unofficial communications saying that this will effect the spouse of a monarch, but more that children born of royal marriages, be they male or female, have equal rank, so to speak. I personally believe that they will follow tradition. I do not think that this act was meant
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  #706  
Old 01-31-2008, 10:40 AM
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I think it's interesting that in conservative Spain, the king created his daughters on their marriage duchesses and that their husbands took over these titles even though the husband was not created a duke.
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  #707  
Old 01-31-2008, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I think it's interesting that in conservative Spain, the king created his daughters on their marriage duchesses and that their husbands took over these titles even though the husband was not created a duke.
Spain is actually quite liberal with regard to their royal family and Juan Carlos a modern man. For a divorcee to marry the heir to the Roman Catholic throne of Spain without a fuss is pretty progressive.

With regard to his daughters' titles, the dukedoms were styles created for life only (they do not pass to the grandchildren of the King). Inaki and Jaime hold them as a courtesy style, being married to Infantas of Spain, not in their own right as Grandees or Dukes.

With Jaime and Elena divorcing, it is likely he will lose the courtesy eventually or be granted something else in his own right.
  #708  
Old 01-31-2008, 03:04 PM
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Madame Royale I've been meaning to say what a lovely post about Camilla.....yes a true Duchess

It doesn't really worry me what her title will be after Charles becomes King but your reasoning about her being known as the Princess Consort makes it a title in it's own right rather than a "consolation prize"
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  #709  
Old 01-31-2008, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Spain is actually quite liberal with regard to their royal family and Juan Carlos a modern man. For a divorcee to marry the heir to the Roman Catholic throne of Spain without a fuss is pretty progressive.

With regard to his daughters' titles, the dukedoms were styles created for life only (they do not pass to the grandchildren of the King). Inaki and Jaime hold them as a courtesy style, being married to Infantas of Spain, not in their own right as Grandees or Dukes.

With Jaime and Elena divorcing, it is likely he will lose the courtesy eventually or be granted something else in his own right.
Jaime already is a marquess and a grande in his own right.
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  #710  
Old 01-31-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Jaime already is a marquess and a grande in his own right.
Is he? He was the fourth of six sons and not the Count of Ripalda in his own right.
  #711  
Old 02-08-2008, 10:33 AM
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If they haven't already passed an act in parliment to with hold the Title of Queen from Her Royal Highness, then i don't think they ever will. And besides Charles looks so happy now, why not make her Queen.
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  #712  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by KingJosh View Post
If they haven't already passed an act in parliment to with hold the Title of Queen from Her Royal Highness, then i don't think they ever will. And besides Charles looks so happy now, why not make her Queen.
I do not think that will come up in parliment until it needs to. That is the British way
  #713  
Old 04-15-2008, 10:24 PM
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That is the British way
Without a doubt, it is!


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell1948 View Post
Madame Royale I've been meaning to say what a lovely post about Camilla.....yes a true Duchess.

It doesn't really worry me what her title will be after Charles becomes King but your reasoning about her being known as the Princess Consort makes it a title in it's own right rather than a "consolation prize"
That is very nice of you, tinkerbell1948. It's nice to know some can either understand, or associate with one's resoning...
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  #714  
Old 04-16-2008, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by noldorlord View Post
I do not think that will come up in parliament until it needs to. That is the British way
Quite rightly so. Who knows what might happen in the next few years and any action now, could affect future wives of a king.
  #715  
Old 04-16-2008, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Quite rightly so. Who knows what might happen in the next few years and any action now, could affect future wives of a king.
And let's be realistic. The way the young generation of Royals behaves nowadays and seems to get away with it without interference of the more senior Royals seems to strongly indicate that the old days are gone. So why bother with this old, old affair at all anymore? Charels and Camilla are happy together, Camilla behaves like the perfect queen-in-waiting and those people who get to know her enjoy the experience. Why should parliament start changing traditions when IMHO most of the Britons won't care that much but in all probability enjoy having a proper king with a proper queen at his side at their coronation.
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  #716  
Old 04-16-2008, 09:34 AM
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I see no reason why Camilla should not be given the title of Queen when Charles ascends the throne. He will be King, she is his wife and the wife of the King is according to tradition, the Queen. It shouldn't have anything to do with perceived moral character or some segments of public opinion. It's not like British monarchs gain the throne on the basis of either.
  #717  
Old 04-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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I must Beatrixfan you really crack me up, I love reading your posts.
I think that Camilla should be whatever she wants, you only have to look at Charles and see how happy she has made him. It took him 55 years but he finally looks relaxed and happy. When did you ever see him laugh spontaniously while married to Diana, you see it a lot married to Camilla. I guess I am of the mind that if William and Harry are happy for their father, what right does anyone else have to say anything. IMHO
  #718  
Old 04-17-2008, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Well, didn't Prince Henrik of Denmark say something like that he thinks it is really unfair that the husband of a queen is not called king?
IIRC, that was the big problem with Lord Darnley and Mary Queen of Scots. He wanted the Scottish Crown Matrimonial, and the title of King, and she didn't want to give it to him. And we all see how well that worked out...

I absolutely agree that it should be Queen Camilla seated beside King Charles III. If Wills comes to the throne and his father never does, well...Camilla can't be Queen Mother since she won't be the new King's mother. So wouldn't it have to be Dowager something or other? I like the elegant Princess Alice solution proposed by some of the posters here.
  #719  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:24 PM
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If Camilla is crowned Queen, and outlives her husband, it would be expected that she would be known as Her Majesty Queen Camilla.

Although automatically a Dowager, there seems to be somewhat of an unliking of the style and may possibly prefer not to be known as such (which is something both Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother chose to do. Though Queen Mary also didn't warm to the stye of Queen Mother either and so chose not to bear it).

If Camilla is to be known as HRH The Princess Consort, and outlives her husband, it would then be expected, as seems logical to the situation, that she would be known as HRH Princess Camilla. Like her predecssors before her, she would be a Dowager, though whether or not she would wish to be known as HRH The Princess Dowager is anybody's guess.
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  #720  
Old 04-18-2008, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Like her predecssors before her, she would be a Dowager, though whether or not she would wish to be known as HRH The Princess Dowager is anybody's guess.
There is no precedent for the title and rank of HRH The Princess Consort. If it comes to pass, Parliament would essentially have to remove her right legally to be Queen (she would already be HM The Queen when the legislation is considered) and creating her a commoner as Camilla Mountbatten-Windsor.

At that point, The King, as fount of all honours, would then be free to issue letters patent creating Camilla a Princess of the UK in her own right and declare her precedence to be ahead of all other women of the Realm. If she survived The King, she would not be a dowager anything as she would already be a Princess in her own right.
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