Title for Camilla

[branchg]

Well it's not incorrect to call them The Prince and Princess of Wales. Because that's just what they are. For years people were able to call Diana 'Princess Diana' with no problems at all - so I intend to use Princess Camilla if I like.

It is incorrect to refer to Camilla as The Princess of Wales because her style and title is Duchess of Cornwall. Similarly, it is incorrect to refer to Louise Wessex as Princess Louise because her style and title is Lady Louise Windsor.

The Queen did not object to "Princess Diana" because she was the mother of a future king, however, technically she was no longer a princess of the UK after the divorce. She was HRH The Princess of Wales while married.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It isn't incorrect at all. She IS the Princess of Wales. Just because she prefers to be called the Duchess of Cornwall doesn't come into at all.

She is the Princess of Wales, people called the old one Princess Diana, Camilla is the step-mother of a future king and Camilla is a Princess of the Realm. So Princess of Wales is good enough for me, as well as Princess Camilla. I know that Princess Camilla is incorrect but I like it and thats how I'll refer to her.

 

[Raia]

i will never in my life refer to camilla as a princess, she isnt she is a duchess thats why shes called the duchess of cornwall that is her style and title not princess, if charles becomes king she will never be queen to me and i will never call her by princess queen or any other title, it has already been said she will be princess consort she will not be known as the queen of england. In my opinion camilla shouldnt have any title, i haven't and never will refer to her as a HRH or the duchess of cornwall or anything else, all she will ever been known to me is just camilla the prince of wales wife and former mistress, she aint worthy of anything else other then that

 

[BeatrixFan]

Camilla's full title is -

Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland

Therefore, She is a Princess, a Duchess , a Countess and a Baroness. She also has those magic initials of HRH and that entitles her to be known as Her Royal Highness. The Queen didn't pass letters patent to stop her getting these titles and therefore she can use anyone of them she pleases - but they all belong to her. Whether you like it or not, she's a Princess and a future Queen. And that's all folks.

 

[Raia]

she maybe the future queen but i will never call her by it, in my eyes she will never be my queen and i dont think most the country will either. the UK has accept the fact there married but you see any poll thats done the UK all of them show we will never accept her being Queen and i really cant see that changing. The only people ive notice that dont mind her being queen is mainly people from other countries where she wont be there queen. in my opinion she is just a selfish lady who couldnt keep her hands of someone elses husband if she loved charles as much as she said she wouldnt of married someone else, charles is just as bad, i hate to see the day when he becomes king and if he makes her queen it'll be a sad day

 

[BeatrixFan]

When she marries Charles, she'll automatically be Queen. Again, as before, she'll legally be Queen even if she calls herself by another title. Whether you recognise it or not really doesn't matter because thats what she'll be - and thats it.

 

[Elspeth]

i will never in my life refer to camilla as a princess, she isnt she is a duchess thats why shes called the duchess of cornwall that is her style and title not princess, if charles becomes king she will never be queen to me and i will never call her by princess queen or any other title, it has already been said she will be princess consort she will not be known as the queen of england. In my opinion camilla shouldnt have any title, i haven't and never will refer to her as a HRH or the duchess of cornwall or anything else, all she will ever been known to me is just camilla the prince of wales wife and former mistress, she aint worthy of anything else other then that

It's your choice whether to call her a princess, of course, but that doesn't mean she isn't one. She's HRH the Princess of Wales, although she's using her HRH the Duchess of Cornwall title for, no doubt, a number of reasons. You're perfectly free to say you don't think she should have any titles, but you're incorrect to say that she isn't a princess. She's Princess of Wales by virtue of being the wife of the Prince of Wales.

 

[Skydragon]

i dont think most the country will either. the UK has accept the fact there married but you see any poll thats done the UK all of them show we will never accept her being Queen and i really cant see that changing. The only people ive notice that dont mind her being queen is mainly people from other countries where she wont be there queen.

The UK will accept her as Queen Consort, in time.
Most of the polls you see are very limited. How can you judge what a country will do by asking 750 - 1000 people. A lot of the polls on line or that people phone into, are inundated by supporters of his ex, phoning in repeatedly to vote, I am told they even e-mail or phone one another to ensure they 'swing' the result. I believe there are approximately 62 million people in the UK, so 1000, the norm in a poll, is laughable.
I am English born, with some Scottish blood, I will welcome Charles and Camilla, when the time comes, as my rightfull King and Queen Consort!

 

[corazon]

She is the Princess of Wales, people called the old one Princess Diana, Camilla is the step-mother of a future king and Camilla is a Princess of the Realm. So Princess of Wales is good enough for me, as well as Princess Camilla.

to be the mother and the step-mother of a future king are different things.
if charles die camilla automally is out of the royal family but if charles die (and diana alive, of course) diana (divorced) still would be a member to the royal family, that was the advantage that diana had to the the Duchess of York.
now of course, camilla is the princess of wales but the royal house was very clear abuot the title. if was camila's desition of was queen's decition we don't know. if you want call them the prince and the princess of wales do it, is well for you, but que royal house said a thing different.
I want call louise ''princess louise'' because she is a princess, is a prince's daughter but is incorret if i call her in this way because for the royal hause she is lady louise.
with camilla is the same, was interrect call diana ''THE princess diana'' THE is only for the menbers of the royal family.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Wrong I'm afraid. If Charles were to die tomorrow, Camilla is still a member of the Royal Family. Then it would be up to the Queen as to what Camilla's title would be.

I've already acknowledged that calling her Princess Camilla is incorrect but so was calling Diana, Princess Diana. She certainly wasn't THE Princess Diana not being the daughter of a Monarch but maybe thats what you said. I'm sorry but I find it hard to understand your posts sometimes so if that is what you meant, ignore that.

I should imagine if Charles died before he became King then the Queen would follow the precedent that Marina and Alice used. Camilla might become Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall leaving her daughter-in-law to become The Duchess of Cornwall. Who knows? But she'd still be a member of the Royal Family.

 

[Saragli]

If Chalres dies Camilla is still a member of the royal family and a senior royal. She will still be HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall or if the Queen lets HRH Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall. She would still be an active member carrying on importent roles if she wished too.

 

[corazon]

Wrong I'm afraid. If Charles were to die tomorrow, Camilla is still a member of the Royal Family. Then it would be up to the Queen as to what Camilla's title would be.

I've already acknowledged that calling her Princess Camilla is incorrect but so was calling Diana, Princess Diana. She certainly wasn't THE Princess Diana not being the daughter of a Monarch but maybe thats what you said. I'm sorry but I find it hard to understand your posts sometimes so if that is what you meant, ignore that.

I should imagine if Charles died before he became King then the Queen would follow the precedent that Marina and Alice used. Camilla might become Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall leaving her daughter-in-law to become The Duchess of Cornwall. Who knows? But she'd still be a member of the Royal Family.

call diana ''princess diana'' is incorrent, call diana ''THE princess diana'' was incorrent, the correct was diana, princess of wales. Now the correct is (as the royal house said) camilla duchess of cornwall, if you want call her princess of wales is ok, she legally is princess of wales, i just said that not is that the royal hause said about the camilla title.
the princess alice and princess marina was members of the royal famile later their husbands died because they had children. i think, I not sure.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall is incorrect. She's HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. She's the only one holding the title at present.

 

[ysbel]

It's funny; we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the Queen would set one standard for titles and precedence and stick to it!

Now we have the Princess of Wales who the Queen let be known as Duchess of Cornwall with one ranking in the official order of precedence and another in the private order of precedence.

Princess Louise is called Lady Louise totally unlike her cousins, Beatrice and Eugenie and the Earl of Wessex's claim to the dukedom of Edinburgh is shakier than at first glance.

To top it off, the Queen messed around Diana's order of precedence too after the divorce.

And to hear the press releases she's trying to simplify the monarchy! I'd hate to see the results if the Queen actually tried to complicate things.

 

[corazon]

If Chalres dies Camilla is still a member of the royal family and a senior royal. She will still be HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall or if the Queen lets HRH Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall. She would still be an active member carrying on importent roles if she wished too.

yes, if the queen want. because duchess of cornwall must be the wife of the next prince of wales.

 

[Iluvbertie]

yes, if the queen want. because duchess of cornwall must be the wife of the next prince of wales.

Actually if Charles dies before the Queen, Camilla will still hold the title of Duchess of Cornwall etc BUT the next Prince of Wales will NOT be the Duke of Cornwall in all probability.


I say this because only the ELDEST SON of the monarch can be the Duke of Cornwall. If Charles dies before the Queen there won't be a Duke of Cornwall until William is king and has a son.


However the Queen could create William Prince of Wales at same stage after the death of his father.


Camilla takes her titles from her husband and therefore the Queen doesn't need to give her a title at all if Charles dies first. She keeps the titles she has but may need to add something like Dowager to indicate that she is the widow of the previous holder.


Camilla's titles have nothing to do with her being the mother of a future king but only those of the wife a present Prince etc.

 

[Iluvbertie]

she maybe the future queen but i will never call her by it, in my eyes she will never be my queen and i dont think most the country will either. the UK has accept the fact there married but you see any poll thats done the UK all of them show we will never accept her being Queen and i really cant see that changing. The only people ive notice that dont mind her being queen is mainly people from other countries where she wont be there queen. in my opinion she is just a selfish lady who couldnt keep her hands of someone elses husband if she loved charles as much as she said she wouldnt of married someone else, charles is just as bad, i hate to see the day when he becomes king and if he makes her queen it'll be a sad day

When I was in England in June/July of the 200 or so people I asked about Camilla not one was against her becoming Charles' wife and the vast majority spoke highly of her and wanted her to be Princess of Wales (thought that it was stupid she wasn't using that title) and would be happy to have her as their Queen.


Now 200 people or so isn't many and I never thought it was a poll or anything - they were just conversations I struck with locals in shopping centres, pubs etc were having about the future of the country and their feelings about Diana (most were saying they were embarassed at their reaction to her death and that they had got caught up in the media hysteria), Camilla, Charles and the RF.


All of them said they discounted the polls because they know absolutely no-one who has ever been polled and in most instances know no-one who agrees with the polls.


I found it interesting that I didn't find a single Pom who felt that they shouldn't have married or that she shouldn't be Queen as from the polls I had expected to find the vast majority of people I spoke to firmly against both.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I think that in the event of Charles dying before the Queen, the Queen would have to create William Prince of Wales but whether she'd make him Duke of Cornwall or not would remain to be seen. He won't be the eldest son of a monarch as you rightly say Chrissy.

Nowadays women aren't using the Dowager title so that's why I think in that situation the Queen would use the Marina and Alice cases as a precedent to follow.

 

[Iluvbertie]

It's funny; we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the Queen would set one standard for titles and precedence and stick to it!

Now we have the Princess of Wales who the Queen let be known as Duchess of Cornwall with one ranking in the official order of precedence and another in the private order of precedence.

Princess Louise is called Lady Louise totally unlike her cousins, Beatrice and Eugenie and the Earl of Wessex's claim to the dukedom of Edinburgh is shakier than at first glance.

To top it off, the Queen messed around Diana's order of precedence too after the divorce.

And to hear the press releases she's trying to simplify the monarchy! I'd hate to see the results if the Queen actually tried to complicate things.

I do think that she has left the situation as it is this way so that in the future the full titles may be used if the person wants to do so/or needs to do so.

E.g. if she had issued Letters Patent denying Louise the title of Princess and then an accident happened and she became closer to the throne new ones would have to be issued to give the title back to her or if in later life she takes up full royal duties like her father rather than follows her Philip's cousins then she has the title still there to be used without a fuss.

 

[branchg]

It's your choice whether to call her a princess, of course, but that doesn't mean she isn't one. She's HRH the Princess of Wales, although she's using her HRH the Duchess of Cornwall title for, no doubt, a number of reasons. You're perfectly free to say you don't think she should have any titles, but you're incorrect to say that she isn't a princess. She's Princess of Wales by virtue of being the wife of the Prince of Wales.

Regardless of what their individual style or title is, Camilla, Sophie, Brigitte, Katharine and Marie-Christine are ALL princesses of the UK and Royal Highnesses by virtue of their marriages to princes of the UK.

They take their style, by custom, by their husband's peerage, if any. Prince Michael of Kent has no peerage, so his wife is HRH Princess Michael of Kent, which would be the case of all of the current spouses if their husbands also had no peerages.

Camilla is Princess of Wales, but has been styled as Duchess of Cornwall at her request by the Queen. She still holds all of her husband's titles and is a princess of the UK through marriage, regardless of what she is called or styled as.

 

[branchg]

Marina was born a princess of Greece & Denmark and was always styled "HRH Princess Marina, The Duchess of Kent" after her marriage by permission of George V, George VI and The Queen. The Sovereign can decide whether to recognize any foreign title of rank or style in her realm, which she did with Princess Marina.

Alice was never officially "Princess Alice" because she was Lady Alice Montagu-Scott as the daughter of a Duke and HRH The Duchess of Gloucester after her marriage to Prince Henry. However, the Queen gave permission for Alice to assume this title after Prince Richard married to distinguish her from the new Duchess and to acknowledge her service to the nation and Crown.

 

[branchg]

I think that in the event of Charles dying before the Queen, the Queen would have to create William Prince of Wales but whether she'd make him Duke of Cornwall or not would remain to be seen. He won't be the eldest son of a monarch as you rightly say Chrissy.

Nowadays women aren't using the Dowager title so that's why I think in that situation the Queen would use the Marina and Alice cases as a precedent to follow.

The Queen would have to issue letters patent changing the grant of the Dukedom of Cornwall to be the heir to the throne only, regardless of whether the heir is the eldest son of the Sovereign.

Since this would be rather dicey (is the heir allowed to be a female and hold the dukedom in her own right?), I doubt William would ever be Duke of Cornwall if Charles died before becoming King.

Camilla would still be HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in the event of Charles' death because there would no other holder of the title. She could retain this style and title until William became King and his eldest son was born and then assume another style or title granted by the Sovereign.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Are you sure about Alice? She was listed in the Court Circular as Princess Alice.

 

[Elspeth]

Have a look at the last sentence of branchg's post; that explains why she was known as Princess Alice after her son became Duke.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Yes I know. But in the first line branchg said, "Alice was never officially "Princess Alice" " but surely she must have been to have been listed as such in the Court Circular?

 

[branchg]

It's funny; we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the Queen would set one standard for titles and precedence and stick to it!

Now we have the Princess of Wales who the Queen let be known as Duchess of Cornwall with one ranking in the official order of precedence and another in the private order of precedence.

Princess Louise is called Lady Louise totally unlike her cousins, Beatrice and Eugenie and the Earl of Wessex's claim to the dukedom of Edinburgh is shakier than at first glance.

To top it off, the Queen messed around Diana's order of precedence too after the divorce.

And to hear the press releases she's trying to simplify the monarchy! I'd hate to see the results if the Queen actually tried to complicate things.

The Queen really HAS messed things up! There should be no question on any of these matters because that's the way royal house rules work, but she has allowed all kinds of exceptions, winks and nods to the normal rules.

Yikes!

 

[branchg]

Have a look at the last sentence of branchg's post; that explains why she was known as Princess Alice after her son became Duke.

Which, again, is the Queen's perogative as Fount of Honour, but she should have issued letters patent formally granting Alice the style and title of a princess of the UK in her own right.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Queen would have to issue letters patent changing the grant of the Dukedom of Cornwall to be the heir to the throne only, regardless of whether the heir is the eldest son of the Sovereign.

Since this would be rather dicey (is the heir allowed to be a female and hold the dukedom in her own right?), I doubt William would ever be Duke of Cornwall if Charles died before becoming King.

Camilla would still be HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in the event of Charles' death because there would no other holder of the title. She could retain this style and title until William became King and his eldest son was born and then assume another style or title granted by the Sovereign.

She wouldn't need to assume another style or title granted by the Sovereign.

Just as the widow of any other title in the peerage continues to use that style and title after the death of their spouse so would Camilla.

 

[Saragli]

The Queen have permission to Alice to officially stlye herslef HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of G. But she was not The Princess Alice. The Dukedom of Cornwall passes from father to son. If Charles dies the hereditary titles go down to william. He would automatically become Duke of Cornwall. It would be up to the Queen to decide when to make him Prince of Wales. So there would be a problem with Camilla if William were married. So she might become HRH Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall or the Queen might give her a new title completely.

 

[branchg]

The Queen have permission to Alice to officially stlye herslef HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of G. But she was not The Princess Alice. The Dukedom of Cornwall passes from father to son. If Charles dies the hereditary titles go down to william. He would automatically become Duke of Cornwall. It would be up to the Queen to decide when to make him Prince of Wales. So there would be a problem with Camilla if William were married. So she might become HRH Princess Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall or the Queen might give her a new title completely.

The original grant of the Dukedom states it can only be held by the Sovereign's eldest son and heir to the throne, so it does not pass automatically by bloodline to the next male heir. It is automatic only to the eldest son of the Sovereign at any one time.

William would likely be created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester by The Queen after a suitable mourning period as the new heir to the throne. He could not be Duke of Cornwall and his wife would become Princess of Wales.

Camilla would probably be granted the title and style of Princess Camilla as the widow of a Prince of Wales.