The Press and Charles and Camilla

[Lumutqueen]

So an election/public vote should be held to determine if Camilla should be called Princess Consort or Queen Consort? Public votes are not cheap and to conduct one for someone who isn't even the actual Head of State seems very odd to me.

Is this something that would actually happen in the UK and/or the Commonwealth?

If the government really wants to gauge the mood of the country and commonwealth in regards to Camilla's title, in my opinion a public vote (not necessarily done as a normal vote would be) is the only way. The government has the power of television, newspapers and radio at its disposal it can do internet polls, phone in votes and such like. It does not have to be an organised vote like you would for a government or local council.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

A public vote? She will be wife of the King...thus the Queen. Camilla deferred to not using her proper current title and now she can't be Queen without a vote? How unfair is that. I know I'm not a Brit and have no say, but that is just mean.

 

[Lumutqueen]

A public vote? She will be wife of the King...thus the Queen. Camilla deferred to not using her proper current title and now she can't be Queen without a vote? How unfair is that. I know I'm not a Brit and have no say, but that is just mean.

No that's not the case. Royal Newbie asked Elly C how the mood and wishes of the country and commonwealth are supposed to be determined and I suggested that the best option would be a public vote. This is not something that's actually happening, it's a suggestion by me.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

Well, just leave it to me to "jump the gun." Just have to wait and see.

 

[MARG]

No that's not the case. Royal Newbie asked Elly C how the mood and wishes of the country and commonwealth are supposed to be determined and I suggested that the best option would be a public vote. This is not something that's actually happening, it's a suggestion by me.

Sorry but it sounds pretty daft to me. No, scratch that, vile, ugly and totally unthinkable.

Since when have Britain and the Commonwealth needed a vote on the title of the Consort? Why would we want to drag the BRF down to the same level as the X Factor? Come to think of it, its not a bad way to decide . . . .

Let me see, hmm, the Queen lies deathly ill and the doctors say she is going to die very soon. In a time of grief and impending loss to Country and Commonwealth we hold an international phone-in vote on what to call her daughter-in-law! She will be legally Queen because no letters of patent have been issued but what the hell, let's not quibble, let's have a popularity contest over the Queen's deathbed or worse still, her coffin.

Instead of a dignified and gracious exit of a great Queen, her death will be sidelined by a popularity contest over the heir's wife to determine what she will be known as. No time for the King or country to grieve, to . . . . . . . ugh, it's too horrible to even think about, let alone countenance.

 

[yvr girl]

If the government really wants to gauge the mood of the country and commonwealth in regards to Camilla's title, in my opinion a public vote (not necessarily done as a normal vote would be) is the only way. The government has the power of television, newspapers and radio at its disposal it can do internet polls, phone in votes and such like. It does not have to be an organised vote like you would for a government or local council.

This kind of vote is not that accurate. It's not random, and usually not representative of general sentiment. People who feel strongly either way might vote. People in the middle, usually don't. Also, many might not hear of the vote. An opinion poll would be more accurate. (Where a polling company calls people.)

I also don't think it would be wise to spend public money for a vote. I don't think most people will care what she is called.

 

[COUNTESS]

She will be queen, if she is still alive. Who, really, cares, today. They seem happy, no matter how this was achieved. They are fact, the rest is all history.

 

[EIIR]

There's as much chance of there being any kind of public vote on Camilla's title as there is of me walking on the moon anytime soon. The idea is utterly preposterous in all its guises.

When the time comes I expect the government of the day will 'sniff the air' as it were to get an idea of where the bulk of the people are on the topic. This is what politicians and governments do on a daily basis. They might undertake some private polling also. These judgements about public opinion are made continually on all sorts of topics. The PoW and his staff made a judgement that the British public would be, on the whole, accepting of his marrying Camilla in 2005 and so they made the decision to go ahead. And they were right.

I think we'll see more and more articles like the ones I posted above, we'll see Camilla become more and more important to the family as the Queen and DoE age further, and I don't think it's impossible that with the nation in deep mourning following the death of a much loved monarch that the government and people would come to the conclusion that it's not fair to our new King or his wife for her to be anything other than Queen to the fullest extent of the word.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Sorry but it sounds pretty daft to me. No, scratch that, vile, ugly and totally unthinkable.

Since when have Britain and the Commonwealth needed a vote on the title of the Consort? Why would we want to drag the BRF down to the same level as the X Factor? Come to think of it, its not a bad way to decide . . . .

Let me see, hmm, the Queen lies deathly ill and the doctors say she is going to die very soon. In a time of grief and impending loss to Country and Commonwealth we hold an international phone-in vote on what to call her daughter-in-law! She will be legally Queen because no letters of patent have been issued but what the hell, let's not quibble, let's have a popularity contest over the Queen's deathbed or worse still, her coffin.

Instead of a dignified and gracious exit of a great Queen, her death will be sidelined by a popularity contest over the heir's wife to determine what she will be known as. No time for the King or country to grieve, to . . . . . . . ugh, it's too horrible to even think about, let alone countenance.

All I did was answer a question, the only real way to gauge the public mood is some form of vote. I never said I agreed that a vote should be taken as I believe Camilla should be known as Queen and even now as Princess of Wales.
But thank you MARG, for scrutinising my answer in such a way. If the government has any sense it will decide on Camilla's title before the Queen passes, what a silly suggestion you make however we all do it don't we?

 

[MARG]

All I did was answer a question, the only real way to gauge the public mood is some form of vote. I never said I agreed that a vote should be taken as I believe Camilla should be known as Queen and even now as Princess of Wales.
But thank you MARG, for scrutinising my answer in such a way. If the government has any sense it will decide on Camilla's title before the Queen passes, what a silly suggestion you make however we all do it don't we?

You are kidding aren't you? Irony, even sarcasm, yes but no one with an ounce of common sense could possibly think that was an actual suggestion . . . .

IMO there is no popular move to change the status quo and a few nuts aren't going to trash hundreds of years of tradition.

 

[Kataryn]

IMO there is no popular move to change the status quo and a few nuts aren't going to trash hundreds of years of tradition.

I think so too. In addition I believe this whole "movement" is quite arrogant. The difference between a monarchy and a republic is that in the latter people may vote for their head of state (in one way or the other, there are direct and indirect ways to select a head of state) but in the first they don't - they have to accept the person they get according to the rules.In Britain the rule means that Charles is next. He will after the demise of his mother be king and his wife will be queen.

Not because of their personal suitability but because of the rule. So in order to be a proper citizen of a monarchy (or a proper newspaper that deals with real problems), you should accept the rule as long as the majority is not for changing the system. Otherwise it would mean to impose your minority opinion not only onto others, but on the government and the souverain. Quite arrogant, that!

 

[Jacknch]

I really don't think there is a particular public mood about Camilla's title when Charles becomes king. It's a case of whose opinion is spread all over the news and thus who shouts loudest - and public opinion cannot be guaged by that anyway.
As things stand at the moment, Clarence House (or Buckingham Palace, I cannot remember which) stated at the time of the engagement that Camilla would be styled/titled/known as Princess Consort when Charles becomes king. Why they felt the need to announced such a thing in the first place does not seem ever to have been discussed. My personal opinion is that it was Camilla's request that she eventually use the princess consort title (in the same way that she wanted to use the Cornwall title), whether she wanted it announced I have no idea. But by announcing it, they have set an expectation that, if changed, would seem abit sly. I'm all for Camilla being queen one day, but if she chooses to go by the princess consort title I have no objection either.

 

[Elly C]

When I suggested that Charles should perhaps put his private desires second to the feeling of the country/commonwealth with regard to making Camilla Queen Consort, I made this remark because the monarchy rules by the consent of the people. If it proved to be very unpopular & potentially damaging for the monarchy if Camilla were to be given this title, Charles should imo accept this. Incidentally, I think it is possible to gauge public mood/response without having a referendum - but this wasn't my point. I was just commenting that unlike with his decision to marry Camilla, which is arguably a private matter, Charles has should consider there is more at stake than his own wishes.

 

[HRHHermione]

I really don't think there is a particular public mood about Camilla's title when Charles becomes king. It's a case of whose opinion is spread all over the news and thus who shouts loudest - and public opinion cannot be guaged by that anyway.

Agreed. I think this is much less of a big deal that people are making it out to be. I spoke to a gentleman recently who is a very big critic of Camilla's (I'm not, I'm actually a fan) and we had a conversation about this issue. He says that even though he doesn't care for her personally, she should be Queen because that's how the monarchy works. Basically, he says that Charles is likely to have a short reign just because of his age, and he's very much looking forward to William and Kate as King and Queen, and he doesn't want to see anything else damage the monarchy in that time period.

He thinks a long, contentious debate about whether Camilla should be known as Queen would be way more damaging than just quietly getting on with it, and I rather agree.

 

[Daria_S]

He thinks a long, contentious debate about whether Camilla should be known as Queen would be way more damaging than just quietly getting on with it, and I rather agree.

Very well said. I'm in complete agreement here.

 

[ladongas]

As I recall, the announcement about Camilla's titles- DofC and PC-was made to keep a peaceful pleasant atmosphere around Charles' remarriage. Did they mean it or not?

Won't there be a period of months between the time of Charles' accession and the coronation?

It may be that an 80 year old Camilla will be quite beloved and many will call for her to be crowned alongside Charles.

It may be that there will be no demand for Queen Camilla.

I don't see how Charles can go back on his word without a popular outcry in favor of Camilla being known as Queen.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The instant the Queen dies Charles becomes King and Camilla becomes Queen Consort.

For her to be called something different will require legislation to strip her of her title - the only one she would have at that time as the all the titles Charles currently holds will pass to William or cease to exist until recreated by Charles. They would have to have her legally back to Ms Camilla Mountbatten-Windsor - morganatic wife of the King and the only woman in Britain not to be able to legally take the femine form of her husband's title (something the government said in 1936 couldn't happen in Britain when Edward VIII suggested that idea as a solution to the Wallis situation).

Then Charles would have to issue LPs to take her back to HRH The Princess Consort.

All very messy and time consuming to satisfy the demands of a minority of the population who are very vocal while most won't care one way or the other.

 

[ladongas]

I just wondered why they would have said that early on if it was so meaningless? I agree that the wife of the King is the Queen, but since an issue was made of it initially, I assumed that they would do as they said.

 

[MARG]

Well said Bertie. I tried being facetious to point out the messy situation that would eventuate upon the death of Queen Elizabeth if the vocal minority were allowed to dictate a dramatic change in the succession and it's subsequent deleterious effect on the monarchy.

Unfortunately it was taken seriously and when I pointed out that it was a poor joke that was taken as a personal insult.

This topic seems to be fraught with the danger of offending those with truly offensive ideas. They are allowed to voice them, we are accused of insulting them when we point out the obvious flaws.

The press seem to be mellowing in the way they talk about Camilla and her role as future Queen. Unfortunately the "she doesn't deserve to be Queen" brigade seem to find that unacceptable and restart the whole "let's have a vote" movement!

 

[Zonk]

Sign.

Closed for a moderator clean up.