Prince Charles's Marriage Prospects pre-Diana and Camilla


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There isnt a clear line. But upper class generally meant having land, having a coat of arms, having a reasonably long descent from "genteel" people.. and if you had a profession, one of the genteel professions - law the military or the church. The Fergusons were landed gentry but they did not have much land, just a farm and were not that flush with cash wealth. Diana's family were titled, had a large house and an estate and a good deal of liquid wealth

In addition to their lavish, Grade I country seat and rural estate, the Spencers also own a large townhouse in London which, I believe, is let out on a long-term lease that provides a significant annual income.

Diana's father was an 8th Earl with a title created in the 18th century for a cadet great-grandson of a Duke. The family itself dates back to the 15th century and is associated with one dukedom and two earldoms, not counting lower titles. Many family members have been courtiers or in the service of the Crown for centuries. So maybe they are not quite as the Cecils or the Howards, but I would say the Spencers are probably in the upper echelon of British aristocracy and, although they are not the richest aristocrats either, they are a fairly wealthy family compared to other peers. In objective terms then, Lady Diana had a much higher social standing than Fergie or Camilla.

Still, the Spencers are "subjects" to use Lady Mountbatten's choice of words. Compared to a time when princes would only marry daughters of kings or sovereign dukes/ grand dukes, Diana was a downgrade then. But, as other posters have mentioned, the legal definition of a "dynastic marriage" is simply one whose descendants retain dynastic rights, i.e. a position in the line of succession to the Crown, and, in the United Kingdom, any marriage of a person in the line of succession that was consented to by the Sovereign was legally dynastic. There was no legal requirement of "equal marriages" as in some continental European monarchies.
 
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So Charles did his duty and married an higher-level aristocratic girl, since aristocrats “knew the rules” — that marriages at that level were more about marrying the “right” person from a public perspective. There would be a public marriage and private pleasure, as that had been common in those circles for a very long time.

When Charles and Camilla reconnected, they were still operating under those unspoken rules. Since they could not have married each other, Charles had the public marriage as expected, and saw Camilla for private pleasure. There are many examples of this in royal and aristocratic circles throughout history.

Had Camilla Shand been considered suitable at the start, things may have looked startlingly different.


I agree with what you wrote about Camilla as a young lady, though I believe the queen would have allowed Charles to marry her if he really wanted because he loved her.


But I don't think Camilla wanted to marry Charles back then. From what I gathered from several biographies I read about him, when he was in his 20ties, he was a strange mix of being a Royal who watched out for the distance he held to others and a really insecure man in private. Not really what a young lady wanted to marry, especially knowing what marriage to the heir meant: service and no privacy for the rest of her life. Andrew PB OTOH was charming (he had princess Anne as a"friend") and well-off, so Camilla knew exactly what an easy and pleasurable life he would offer her compared to Charles. (Just remember Lady Jane Wellesly saying: I don't need to marry Charles, I already have a title! She, too, chose the easier life compared to that of any future queen.)



But I think what both Charles and her wanted was to stay real friends as in some sort of soul-mates. When Charles married Diana, they ended their close friendship but when he needed Camilla after his marriage did not work out, Camilla was there to offer him security and her friendship (which slowly developped into a deep love, but that's not the point).


Charles and Camilla had the kind of soul-deep friendship, they shared his free time with each other, comforted each other in bed and mingled in his circle of friends and people he was interested in. All that was something common in their circles, but nothing Diana was ready to accept. Diana wanted all of Charles, not only the public position of his princess.In a way, this was a much more "common" way to look at marriage and it was the way the media (who writes for the real commoners, not the aristocracy) followed the story.



I could imagine Charles and Camilla hoped after the divorce that the media interest would follow Diana's love live and (hopefully) Charles good deeds but when Diana died, that changed and working slowly but determinedly twowards marriage was the best way. I really admire Camilla that at her age, as a grandmother herself, she was willing to take over that public role (including all those comparisons with Diana) and she did spendidly. She really must love Charles!
 
In addition to their big, Grade I country seat and rural estate, the Spencers also own a large townhouse in London which, I believe, is let out on a long-term lease that provides a significant annual income.

Compared to a time when princes would only marry daughters of kings or sovereign dukes/ grand dukes, Diana was a downgrade then. But, as other posters have mentioned, the legal definition of a "dynastic marriage" is simply one whose descendants retain dynastic rights, i.e. a position in the line of succession to the Crown, and, in the United Kingdom, any marriage of a person in the line of succession that was consented to by the Sovereign was legally dynastic. There was no legal requirement of "equal marriages" as in some continental European monarchies.
it was the last quarter of the 20th century wehn Charles married Diana, I think that the idea that it was infra dig for a royal to marry an upper class woman had long since gone. George V's sons had married 2 peer's daughters, 1 american, and 1 exiled Greek princess. In short Lady Mountbatten was way out of date...
 
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I recall as a kid reading magazines hoping for a union between Charles and the most beautiful princess in Europe, Caroline, daughter of Prince Rainier and Grace Kelly. I think it was a hope to give the Windsors some of the Grimaldi glam they needed. After all, Charles DeGaulle nicknamed Princess Grace the American Venus and Caroline was just as beautiful as her mother.

13558dcd3879b2817ca5d82d04aa9bda--caroline-of-monaco-princess-caroline.jpg
 
I recall as a kid reading magazines hoping for a union between Charles and the most beautiful princess in Europe, Caroline, daughter of Prince Rainier and Grace Kelly. I think it was a hope to give the Windsors some of the Grimaldi glam they needed. After all, Charles DeGaulle nicknamed Princess Grace the American Venus and Caroline was just as beautiful as her mother.

13558dcd3879b2817ca5d82d04aa9bda--caroline-of-monaco-princess-caroline.jpg
I don’t think it would have worked out at all, two very different people plus back then, he couldn’t marry her because she was Catholic unless she converted and I don’t think Caroline would have converted
 
I recall as a kid reading magazines hoping for a union between Charles and the most beautiful princess in Europe, Caroline, daughter of Prince Rainier and Grace Kelly. I think it was a hope to give the Windsors some of the Grimaldi glam they needed. After all, Charles DeGaulle nicknamed Princess Grace the American Venus and Caroline was just as beautiful as her mother.

13558dcd3879b2817ca5d82d04aa9bda--caroline-of-monaco-princess-caroline.jpg

It would never have worked. Young Caroline was passionate, intellectual, stylish, very Mediterranean and Catholic. She was anything but malleable.She would never have fit in within the British Royal Family.

Her beauty and glamour even exceeded that of Diana Spencer so if Charles felt overshadowed by Lady Di, he would have been blown off the map by the daughter of the American Venus.:sad:
 
A match between Charles and Caroline would have been a longshot, but it could have worked out. Yes, Caroline is glamorous and intellectual, but she's also royal, so she probably would have known better than Diana what she was getting into, and she might have garnered more respect from the courtiers than Diana did.

She also seemed much more sophisticated than Diana at a young age.

But, who? It's all wild speculation.
 
A match between Charles and Caroline would have been a longshot, but it could have worked out. Yes, Caroline is glamorous and intellectual, but she's also royal, so she probably would have known better than Diana what she was getting into, and she might have garnered more respect from the courtiers than Diana did.

She also seemed much more sophisticated than Diana at a young age.

But, who? It's all wild speculation.
IMO, I don’t think so, the Grimaldis and their ambience is a very different from the BRF, it’s not a question of Caroline being intellectual or not but rather if she and Charles would be compatible and if she could handle the atmosphere of the BRF. Don’t forget, she initially only married Junot just to leave the palace not because she was in love.
 
I think both had more in common to make it work. Both were on the public eye since birth and every moment of their lives was documented since then. And this sort of 'date' that made the tabloids hit the sky was, if I recall correctly from old memories, to see if they had that chemistry besides being casual acquaintances.

With Caroline on the picture, there would have never been a 'marriage of three people'. Had they worked things out, like religion, into a marriage their kids would be now a decade older and with teen kids of their own traveling back and forth from the UK to the glam life on the French Riviera.

Note aside, I believe I've seen genealogy charts that Charles and Caroline are actual distant cousins and Caroline herself now is an in-law cousin since her marriage to Ernst of Hannover.
 
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previous: Great points everyone, thank you.

But the 500 pound gorilla in the room would have been Caroline's Catholicism. Even if she had agreed to raise her children as CoE, i don't believe she would have herself have converted.

She never converted after marrying Ernst August of Hannover. Charles would have forfeited his Succession rights for marrying Caroline.
 
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There was no reason she should have converted after marrying EA, though.

Caroline was also willing to do the quite un-royal and un-Catholic thing — live in literal sin with Casiraghi and have her first three children outside of what the Church considers wedlock, all because she could not get that annulment. It's questionable if she would have held that Catholicism against absolutely anything.

(I feel like Charles and Anne-Marie would have been great in some other timeline, but we'll never know what might have happened had she not gone for the second cousin instead. Most people are not taken by age 15.)
 
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Caroline's Catholicism is not necessarily dogmatic/religious. I believe it is tied in with her sense of cultural identity as a southern European, which is how she described herself as late as last year in an interview alongside her daughter Charlotte.

In other words, the religion of her ancestors is closely tied to her identity as a person.

Despite the unorthodox way she has conducted her personal life, it is significant that she has remained a Roman Catholic who receives the sacraments.

Even though the Church didn't recognize her marriage to Casiraghi until after his death, the fact that she desperately wanted the recognition is significant.

And even without Vatican sanction, by law all four of her children were born in wedlock.
 
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Charles and Caroline were never going to marry. Nor were Sarah Spencer and Charles
 
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