King Charles and Queen Camilla

[Sister Morphine]

Although she could legally choose any name as her consort name. For example, she could choose to be known as Queen Mary from "Rosemary".

True, Princess Victoria Mary of Teck took the name Queen Mary, as it sounded better than Queen May (which is the name she preferred to be called).

 

[BeatrixFan]

If Charles chose the name of King George VII, we could end up with another King George and Queen Mary.

 

[Oppie]

The Commonwealth needs to pass an Act of Parliament naming the monarch here is the link to the Canadian one for QE II http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/ShowDoc/cs/R-12/se:1::se:2/20070110/en?showall=L&statuteyear=all&lengthannual=50&length=50&page=1&isPrinting=false (which is the only one other than New Zealand to have Defender of the Faith)

When Charles becomes King they will need to do this again, so they can add Camilla in or leave it alone and let the British Parliament decide. But since Queen Elizabeth was the first there is no precedence on how to handle the consort (Prince Philip for example is not the Prince of New Zealand)

 

[Sister Morphine]

If Charles chose the name of King George VII, we could end up with another King George and Queen Mary.

Has Charles given any indication that he wants to go by the name George VII? I'm just curious as to whether he's ever talked about it.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It's only really hearsay and gossip. He's never said publicly but apparantly, he's said it quite often privately depending on who you believe.

 

[branchg]

I totally agree with your post and ask this question not to argue but out of pure interest.
Camilla will automatically become Queen when Charles becomes King; I think that's pretty certain, since the legislation would be pointless and just waste of money and time.
But what will keep Camilla from being known as Queen Consort (not necessarily hold the title of Princess Consort)?
Not that I want it happen, Camilla will legally be Queen (and a terrific one, imo) and I hope she will use the title)

If Camilla doesn't want to be known as Queen Consort, a title must be created for her with precedence defined by the Crown. Since she is automatically Queen Consort in her own right under the succession, the Prime Minister would have to consult with Parliament to see if they would agree to the change without legislation.

It is impossible to see how they could accomplish this without ignoring the precedents of 1936. It was made clear then the wife of the King is Queen Consort and nothing else. As Head of State, the King is above the law and his wife is Queen in her own right. Because the Government and Dominions would not accept Wallis as Queen Consort nor pass legislation permitting the King to marrry morganatically, Edward VIII abdicated to avoid a crisis.

It's the same situation with Camilla, except she is already married and the wife of the future king. It's hard to see why a future PM or Parliament would agree to it.

 

[Elspeth]

In that case, it seems a bit reckless for the official websites of the royal family to be saying that it's intended that after their marriage she'll be known as Princess Consort. I don't know if this was a way of trying to strong-arm a future government into agreeing to the change or some sort of rather clumsy way of placating the Diana supporters at the time the engagement was announced or what, but it seems as though it's just succeeded in causing confusion everywhere.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Let's be realistic - the whole Princess Consort thing was to pacify the Di loons and then when it came to the coronation, they'd announce that constitutionally, Camilla couldn't be anything other than Queen and by that time the public would have accepted her. Unfortunately, big mouths in the BBC announced that fact before schedule.

 

[branchg]

In that case, it seems a bit reckless for the official websites of the royal family to be saying that it's intended that after their marriage she'll be known as Princess Consort. I don't know if this was a way of trying to strong-arm a future government into agreeing to the change or some sort of rather clumsy way of placating the Diana supporters at the time the engagement was announced or what, but it seems as though it's just succeeded in causing confusion everywhere.

I agree! But I think Clarence House was trying to "slip it in" without too many questions being asked as to whether, in fact, the wife of the King could be Princess Consort without the consent of Parliament. Once members of Parliament raised this issue in the weeks after the announcement, the answer was....she cannot.

I think it is inevitable she will be Queen Camilla when and if Charles becomes King.

 

[branchg]

Let's be realistic - the whole Princess Consort thing was to pacify the Di loons and then when it came to the coronation, they'd announce that constitutionally, Camilla couldn't be anything other than Queen and by that time the public would have accepted her. Unfortunately, big mouths in the BBC announced that fact before schedule.

That's exactly what will happen. The Prime Minister will say after consulting with constitutional experts and Parliament, there is no precedent for the wife of the King being anything but Queen and that's it.

 

[Avalon]

Thank you for the answer, branchg!

In the FAQs section of the official website of the Prince of Wales, they answer the question in the same way (again using the word intended).

Will The Duchess become Queen when The Prince becomes King?
As was explained at the time of their wedding in April 2005, it is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes the throne.

And for everyone, who were in doubt what Church does Camilla belong to (Catholic or Anglican) and therefore, whether she is 'fit' to become a Queen, here is another section from the FAQs.

What religion do The Prince and The Duchess practice?
As Anglicans, The Prince of Wales and The Duchess of Cornwall are members of The Church of England and regularly attend church.
The Prince also takes a interest in all faiths and over the years has spent a lot of time encouraging dialogue and good relations between Britain’s main faith communities.
In 1994, The Prince said of his future role as Head of the Church of England, which he would assume when he becomes King: “I personally would rather see it as Defender of Faith, not ‘The Faith’”.

 

[Sister Morphine]

The Diana faction will just have to accept that even if Diana had not died, but Charles still remarried, Camilla is entitled to being styled as Queen Consort. Diana's death didn't change that.....their divorce and his remarriage did. Although I don't know if he would have remarried if she was still alive (doesn't the former spouse have to be deceased?), but the fact is he did remarry and that's the situation.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Thank you for the answer, branchg!

In the FAQs section of the official website of the Prince of Wales, they answer the question in the same way (again using the word intended).

Will The Duchess become Queen when The Prince becomes King?
As was explained at the time of their wedding in April 2005, it is intended that The Duchess will be known as HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes the throne.

Why would she take a rank below what she's entitled to? Was that a decision she made or was it made for her? If she's going that far to pacify the crazier part of the late Diana's fanbase, she's nuttier than they are.

 

[Avareenah]

The Church of England has said there will be no change to the title "Defender of the Faith". As I've said before, Charles cannot be "Defender of Faiths"...how can he claim to align himself with all faiths? Impossible. He can respect all faiths, that's all.

As regards Camilla...yes, she will automatically become Queen when Charles ascends the throne. But surely it is her decision what she is known as afterwards without an act of parliament being involved? She will not be a reigning queen.

Princess Consort sounds the most appropriate to me.

 

[Sister Morphine]

As regards Camilla...yes, she will automatically become Queen when Charles ascends the throne. But surely it is her decision what she is known as afterwards without an act of parliament being involved? She will not be a reigning queen.

In order for Camilla as the wife of the reigning King to be known as anything other than Queen Consort, there would need to be an Act of Parliament and Letters Patent from the King granting her a rank befitting a morgantic marriage (which is what Princess Consort would describe)....which is not what they have.


And it doesn't matter if she is a reigning Queen a la her mother-in-law or a Queen by marriage, a la Queen Mary.....the wife of a King is a Queen.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Camilla can't just say, "No thanks" to the title of Queen Consort, nor can she ignore parliament. She will be Queen Consort and that's final. Princess Consort may sound appropriate to you but it's offensive to others and an insult to Camilla. It's also hugely incorrect and a smack in the face to tradition. If Camilla has to be Princess Consort to pacify a few loons, then I hope Kate will be Duchess of Cornwall and Princess Consort too. I mean, how long does this have to go on for and how much tradition do we have to elbow to please a few fanatics - most of whom don't even live here.

 

[Avareenah]

Why would she take a rank below what she's entitled to? Was that a decision she made or was it made for her? If she's going that far to pacify the crazier part of the late Diana's fanbase, she's nuttier than they are.

Do you really think Diana's "fanbase" had anything to do with this decision, SM?

Charles and Camilla were both married to others during the time they conducted their longstanding affair. When Charles ascends the throne, he will be (barring changes before that time) Head of the Church of England, which forbids extra-marital relationships.

I think this is the more relevant scenario for sensitivity over Camilla's future title, rather than anything to do with Diana.

 

[Avareenah]

I'm afraid it doesn't work like that. Camilla can't just say, "No thanks" to the title of Queen Consort, nor can she ignore parliament. She will be Queen Consort and that's final. Princess Consort may sound appropriate to you but it's offensive to others and an insult to Camilla. It's also hugely incorrect and a smack in the face to tradition. If Camilla has to be Princess Consort to pacify a few loons, then I hope Kate will be Duchess of Cornwall and Princess Consort too. I mean, how long does this have to go on for and how much tradition do we have to elbow to please a few fanatics - most of whom don't even live here.

But they've already announced that she won't be called Queen Consort, rather Princess Consort!

 

[Sister Morphine]

Do you really think Diana's "fanbase" had anything to do with this decision, SM?

Charles and Camilla were both married to others during the time they conducted their longstanding affair. When Charles ascends the throne, he will be (barring changes before that time) Head of the Church of England, which forbids extra-marital relationships.

I think this is the more relevant scenario for sensitivity over Camilla's future title, rather than anything to do with Diana.

I didn't say they were directly involved in the "decision". What I said was, most of Diana's fanbase views Camilla as nothing more than a harlot and that she shouldn't take their beloved's titles of Princess of Wales and Queen of England. What they forget is that they divorced before she died, so she wasn't going to have the latter and she gave up the former. THEY don't want Camilla to be Queen because they think she broke up Charles and Diana's marriage, but Diana was just as guilty as he was.

And furthermore, it doesn't matter what either of them did with each other when they were married to other people. She is his wife now, and when he is King she will be Queen.

 

[Sister Morphine]

But they've already announced that she won't be called Queen Consort, rather Princess Consort!

That's not what it said. It said "intended". That is not official. I can "intend" to wash my hair tonight, but until I stick my head under the faucet, there's no guarantee it will happen. In the time between right this second and the minute Charles ascends the throne, that could change. Also, Parliament would have to pass an act allowing her to take a lesser rank and I can't see that happening.

 

[BeatrixFan]

But they've already announced that she won't be called Queen Consort, rather Princess Consort!

They announced the intention. The reality is she cannot be called Princess Consort. Sorry but the plain and simple fact is that she will be Queen Camilla. And thats that.

 

[Caswallan]

Queen Camilla...

ok now there is a title that will match her hats/tiaras.

 

[Avareenah]

With respect, this is your opinion only. It may not matter to you personally, but you do not represent the view of the Church necessarily nor of others sensitive to this issue...and there are many.

For whatever reasons, many think Charles and Camilla won't be coming to the throne under ideal circumstances and I think it's wise that both are sensitive to these feelings.

Just because Camilla will be known as Princess Consort does mean that her position will be inferior to any other Queen Consort anyway.

If she's happy to be called Princess Consort, who are we to argue otherwise?

 

[branchg]

But they've already announced that she won't be called Queen Consort, rather Princess Consort!

They announced that Camilla and Charles don't mind if Parliament passes legislation barring her from being Queen Consort to please the public. Since they are already married and she is Princess of Wales, why should be not be Queen?

If there is a public outcry over the issue, then it can be done. But I doubt anyone thinks there will be. Diana died a divorcee and was never going to be Queen anyway.

It's silly and diminishes the monarchy to start up memories of 1936 again. Camilla is the lawful wife of Prince Charles and has every right to be Queen when the time comes.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Just because Camilla will be known as Princess Consort does mean that her position will be inferior to any other Queen Consort anyway.

Yes her position WILL be inferior. Why? Because she'd need a law to alter her rank. She wouldn't be a Queen. That would put her below other Queens. There's a difference between CHOOSING another rank to use, like what's she doing right now as the Duchess of Cornwall instead of the Princess of Wales and needing a law and Letters Patent passed to GIVE her another rank to use. Duchess of Cornwall is one of the titles she assumed when she married Charles, and she's opting to use it. When Charles becomes King, there are no other titles for her use but Queen Consort.

 

[Avareenah]

Again, branchg, with respect, your opinion only.

Clearly not everyone agrees that Camilla has "every right" to become queen when the time comes.

 

[Caswallan]

I don't believe we are going to see Charles on the throne anytime soon. His Mom seems to be in good health and think she will live a long time yet. When he does become King I would hope that Camilla would be Queen Consort. Why not? I mean by then Diana will have been gone for a very longtime and she wasn't going to become Queen anyway.

I get that everyone was sensitive about Camilla using the Princess of Wales title and like I said in a previous post I think she suits the Duchess of Cornwall title better anyway.

I think blaming Camilla for everything in the past is wrong. Charles was there and so was Diana. It didn't work. Camilla or not I don't think it would have worked. I think Diana went into the marriage to young and with expectations that where unrealistic. I am sure Charles idea of marriage was different as well.

 

[branchg]

Again, branchg, with respect, your opinion only.

Clearly not everyone agrees that Camilla has "every right" to become queen when the time comes.

Not everyone agrees, but the issue will be addressed when and if the time comes. If the public is clearly opposed, the legislation can and will be passed and Charles will issue letters patent creating her HRH The Princess Consort.

My point is legally, she DOES have the right to be Queen unless Parliament intervenes to deny her rightful rank and title.

 

[Roslyn]

Again, branchg, with respect, your opinion only.

Clearly not everyone agrees that Camilla has "every right" to become queen when the time comes.

Whether some people like it or not, she does have every right. She is married to the heir apparent, the Prince of Wales, and she is the Princess of Wales, whether she is known as such or not, and when her husband becomes King, she has the right to be Queen. For her not to become Queen, her current rights will have to be taken away from her by Parliament.

 

[Elspeth]

They announced the intention. The reality is she cannot be called Princess Consort.

Sure she can. As far as I know, under British law unless there's an intent to defraud or otherwise use the name to engage in criminal activity, people can call themselves whatever they like. It may not be their legal name, but that doesn't mean they can't call themselves HRH the Princess Consort. Or Bozo the Clown, for that matter.

I mean, if HM the Queen Consort announces that she'd like to be known as HRH the Princess Consort, who's going to say, "sorry but you can't, ma'am"? I can't exactly see them throwing her in the Tower because of it.

Which doesn't mean I think it'll happen. I'm sure that when Charles is HM the King, Camilla will be (and be known as) HM the Queen Consort, and I'll be interested to see when they acknowledge reality and remove the "it is intended that she be known as Bozo the Clown" nonsense from the PoW's website. I'm just saying that there's a difference between what your legal name actually is and what you choose to be called. Most people choose to be called by their legal name, but it isn't necessary.