The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #101  
Old 12-23-2017, 06:59 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlmagoo View Post
They use “Catholic” as an umbrella term for what most of us believe
The word catholic is defined as meaning universal. All embracing, diverse, eclectic. Quite a few synonyms.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna.
__________________

__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:12 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The word catholic is defined as meaning universal. All embracing, diverse, eclectic. Quite a few synonyms.

The earliest recorded evidence of the use of the term "Catholic Church" is the Letter to the Smyrnaeans that Ignatius of Antioch wrote in about 107 to Christians in Smyrna.
I presume this means "IS Camilla a Roman Catholic" and shes not....
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:27 AM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 10,188
But her children were raised Roman Catholics.
And they both married Anglicans and their children are probably raised Anglicans.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:31 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I presume this means "IS Camilla a Roman Catholic" and shes not....
I think a lot of people question Camilla's denomination of faith because she married a Roman Catholic.

To be honest, I think the whole discriminatory view of the Act of Succession was something that was instigated and written in stone (well... ok... on paper) because after Henry VIII divorced himself and his country from Rome, there was a lot of religious politics that came into play and it was to assure that the succession would always remain with the Church of England. It was just how things are and continued. Personally, I'm happy to see that the discrimination against marrying a Roman Catholic has been abolished. I also understand and agree with the codicil that any monarch must be in communion with the Church of England. Roman Catholicism is the only denomination of faith the Act of Succession was adamant about. Politics, politics, politics.

When we really look into the Roman Catholic church and the Protestant denominations, its the same God. Its the same prayers and the same hymns with very little differences other than only one recognizes the authority of the Pope in Rome. My hubby's family is Presbyterian (Dad-in-law was a minister) and I was raised Roman Catholic. Attending my first Presbyterian service, I fit right in and felt comfortable with it.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:45 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
well it was quite understandable that there was a fear of Roman Catholicism, after James II... and so it was that denomination which was forbidden to the RF. It might be time to break the link between the C of E and the Monarchy, but it hasn't quiete happened yet.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:53 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
I get the sense that it'll happen sooner rather than later. Religious politics just aren't in play in our world today as much as they used to be. As populations become more and more diverse, the majority of the people of a country being of one faith is rapidly diminishing.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-23-2017, 07:56 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
I don't believe that religious politics isn't important. In the UK most people are not that into religion, but there are still very actively religious people..
The C of E is not well attended, but it is still there, its still the Established church and I don't think that there's going to be a general union of all Christian denomninations any time soon either.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-23-2017, 08:01 AM
Gaudete's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: South East Coast, United Kingdom
Posts: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well it was quite understandable that there was a fear of Roman Catholicism, after James II... and so it was that denomination which was forbidden to the RF. It might be time to break the link between the C of E and the Monarchy, but it hasn't quiete happened yet.
Sadly it hasn't gone away. There's always been a suspicion of Roman Catholics in this country, much less prominent now but it is seen as something foreign and strange by many. I think the monarchy will always stay linked to the Church of England but it won't be long (IMO) before the Lords Spiritual are either reformed or dispensed with altogether. I don't think people have an issue with the Queen being the nominal head of the church but they do have an issue with the CofE being over represented in the legislature when other religions aren't.

Back on topic, Camilla and Andrew will have received permission from their local Roman Catholic Bishop to marry in a Roman Catholic ceremony without Camilla being received into the Church first. Because she was already baptised and confirmed in the Anglican Church, she wouldn't have required "dispensation from disparity of cult" but she would have needed permission to enter into a mixed marriage. Which obviously they got. Such permission is very rarely given so I imagine they presented a good case at the time or knew the Bishop well.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 12-23-2017, 08:03 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't believe that religious politics isn't important. In the UK most people are not that into religion, but there are still very actively religious people..
The C of E is not well attended, but it is still there, its still the Established church and I don't think that there's going to be a general union of all Christian denomninations any time soon either.
I agree with you that church attendance has diminished quite a bit not only, as you say, in the UK but also here in the States. Its kind of sad because to me, its a sign that people aren't really paying too much attention to their spiritual selves and focus much more on the physical and the "right here and now" issues.

Then again, who am I to talk. I can't remember the last time I set foot in a church. I just don't really identify with any organized religion.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 12-23-2017, 09:36 AM
Nice Nofret's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 695
... just a note on the power of the Pope: Italy is the country with the lowest birthrate in europe.... and that since a very long time.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 12-23-2017, 11:02 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I think a lot of people question Camilla's denomination of faith because she married a Roman Catholic.

To be honest, I think the whole discriminatory view of the Act of Succession was something that was instigated and written in stone (well... ok... on paper) because after Henry VIII divorced himself and his country from Rome, there was a lot of religious politics that came into play and it was to assure that the succession would always remain with the Church of England. It was just how things are and continued. Personally, I'm happy to see that the discrimination against marrying a Roman Catholic has been abolished. I also understand and agree with the codicil that any monarch must be in communion with the Church of England. Roman Catholicism is the only denomination of faith the Act of Succession was adamant about. Politics, politics, politics.

When we really look into the Roman Catholic church and the Protestant denominations, its the same God. Its the same prayers and the same hymns with very little differences other than only one recognizes the authority of the Pope in Rome. My hubby's family is Presbyterian (Dad-in-law was a minister) and I was raised Roman Catholic. Attending my first Presbyterian service, I fit right in and felt comfortable with it.
Actually, the legal ban on royal marriages to Catholics was introduced much later than Henry VIiii's time, more specifically, after the revolution of 1688. Both Charles I, Charles II and James Ii. had Catholic wives, didn't they ?
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 12-23-2017, 11:06 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Thanks Mbruno. Boy am I glad there are people here that know so much more than I do and can fill in areas where I get things totally and completely wrong.

(walks off whistling happily as she checks her "learn something new everyday" box for the day.)
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 12-23-2017, 11:12 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
Charles I, Charles II and James Ii. had Catholic wives, didn't they ?
They did, and because of numerous attempts plots [Gunpowder/Popish and others] the Protestant 'establishment' sought PERMANENTLY to prevent the accession of a Catholic Monarch or the birth of a Catholic heir...
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:23 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Its not that difficult to understand... The British associated Roman Catholicism with tyrany, like France.. and when James II a Catholic Monarch with a catholic wife took the throne, they were OK to keep him provided he didn't try to restore the RC hegemony and he had a Protestant heir. When he proved an inept ruler, and was obviously bent on restoring Catholicism.. and produced a male heir.. they wanted rid of him,
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:28 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 11,203
50% of the British have no religion anyway. In England and Wales the "no religion" group is larger than the group with a religion.

In the UK 17% still identify with the Anglican Church but that is a fast shrinking group as it is the eldest group in society. Roman-Catholicism is growing hard because of immigration (think of the Poles alone) and as this new influx is young and gets children who are baptized, as Catholics tend to be more determined to keep traditions, the expectation in that in a decade the Catholics will overturn the Anglicans as largest Christian denomination in the UK.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...arents-beliefs
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:28 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
They did, and because of numerous attempts plots [Gunpowder/Popish and others] the Protestant 'establishment' sought PERMANENTLY to prevent the accession of a Catholic Monarch or the birth of a Catholic heir...

It is near impossible to understand or 'account' for the hysterical fear of Catholicism over nearly 400 years, altho' certainly there was MONSTROUS behaviour on 'both sides'.
History is chock full of religious sects going to war against each other and killing each other off in a righteous manner. Its been that way, I think, since the dawn of man and two brothers didn't see eye to eye on things as the story goes. And such was the Reformation. It caused a whole lot of political problems.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:28 PM
Gaudete's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: South East Coast, United Kingdom
Posts: 514
In many ways it was the first religious extremist conflict we saw in this country. Zealots causing misery in the most barbaric way because they claimed their religion was the right path. Britain certainly contributed its fair share of Saints and Martyrs over the last 500 years and its only really been in the last 150 years that British Catholics have full emancipation. Even today, as this discussion shows, the mere suggestion that someone is Catholic can cause controversy. It’s an ingrained prejudice that’s not as bad today as it once was but it still exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
50% of the British have no religion anyway. In England and Wales the "no religion" group is larger than the group with a religion.

In the UK 17% still identify with the Anglican Church but that is a fast shrinking group as it is the eldest group in society. Roman-Catholicism is growing hard because of immigration (think of the Poles alone) and as this new influx is young and gets children who are baptized, as Catholics tend to be more determined to keep traditions, the expectation in that in a decade the Catholics will overturn the Anglicans as largest Christian denomination in the UK.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...arents-beliefs

I would question whether it is because of immigration quite honestly. RCIA classes are full every year and most are British citizens who have come to religion late in life or who are moving away from Anglicanism. Catholicism is growing in the UK in quite a remarkable way. Whilst migrants have undoubtedly swelled congregation size in some churches, they were already Catholics. The rate of converts is impressive and sustained. It’s been that way here for around 15 years now.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:35 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,782
Prime example of recent turbulence would be "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

It really made my day to see not only the Queen, but also Charles and Camilla reach out to mend the fences. I think its one thing I do admire about Charles is that he is a shining example of religious tolerance.

BTW: Camilla's son, Tom, was baptized and raised in the Roman Catholic church. The Prince of Wales is his godfather.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 12-23-2017, 12:37 PM
Gaudete's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: South East Coast, United Kingdom
Posts: 514
What Charles has done in recent years for inter faith relations is no short of miraculous. He’s helped to heal so many old wounds and provide a dialogue we sorely need if we’re going to make this new social fabric work. Camilla has naturally supported him in that and that’s to be applauded too.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 12-23-2017, 01:49 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Prime example of recent turbulence would be "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

It really made my day to see not only the Queen, but also Charles and Camilla reach out to mend the fences. I think its one thing I do admire about Charles is that he is a shining example of religious tolerance.

BTW: Camilla's son, Tom, was baptized and raised in the Roman Catholic church. The Prince of Wales is his godfather.
I've tried my best to stay off this thread - I live in Northern Ireland, and have seen and heard far too much about the supposed differences between Protestants and Catholics, during the troubles as highlighted by Osipi.

However I thought I'd share a nice Christmas story with you, which highlights that perhaps we're not so different after all - Merry Christmas to you all, and thanks for all the fun and information on here!

Church of Ireland opens doors to Catholic neighbours - BBC News
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
act of settlement, camilla, catholicism, duchess of cornwall, line of succession


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Catholic Royals BeatrixFan Royalty Past, Present, and Future 217 04-02-2021 01:20 PM
Camilla and The Public Duchess The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall 1362 11-30-2020 03:11 AM
Would the Lux. Princes be allowed to marry a Non-Catholic? bad_barbarella Prince Felix, Princess Claire, Prince Louis, Princess Alexandra, Prince Sebastien and Families 121 11-07-2017 01:05 PM
What if William falls in love with a Catholic girl... Janet The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Family 167 02-21-2008 02:51 AM
Will Camilla ever become Queen? polop The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall 59 12-02-2005 09:43 PM




Popular Tags
american archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian british british royal family camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles carolin china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese clarence house commonwealth countries coronation crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii family tree genetics george vi gradenigo harry and meghan hello! highgrove history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs japan japanese imperial family japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers meghan markle monarchists monarchy mongolia pless politics portugal prince harry queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×