The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #301  
Old 11-03-2005, 03:12 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Hewitt would know more about Diana than any of us.:)
Hewitt would know more than anything about Diana during the period he knew her but she changed a lot after they broke up and he wouldn't be a good judge of the kind of person she was when she died.
__________________

  #302  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:03 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
Skydragon..you are correct it..it is your opinion and you are entitled to it. My point or rather my suggestion is this....we (including myself) shouldn't take everything that is out in cyber space or every rumor that we hear as the gospel.A website that Johnnie Spencer said he always wanted his daughter to be a princess...thats the first I have heard of that. Also, I never heard that Camilla called him every night on his honeymoon..I heard about the picture and the cuff links.
Hi Zonk. All the Spencer clan wanted closer ties with royalty according to all the articles in this country over the last 20 years. It is supposed to be one of the reasons that Lady Fermoy backed Johnie against Frances in the custody battle. To keep her grand-daughters close to the royals.
Any search engine will find you sites that describe this (except the Althorpe site).
Diana said that like all young girls she wanted to be a princess and she was actually going to be one.
Princess Michael confirmed that Diana was upset about Charles ringing Camilla while they were on honeymoon in the tabloids recently.
None of us can know if they were in love or not, but they did not appear to be 'in love' to me, compared to other couples I have seen over the years.:)
__________________

  #303  
Old 11-04-2005, 10:17 AM
una una is offline
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: london, United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk1189
I would agree that James Hewitt knew Diana better than anyone on this board ... I do, however, find it a stretch that you are going on record as saying that they started their affair in 1981 when in fact there is no evidence (other than his hypnosis) that this did occur in 81.
There is another source for an earlier affair, although I don't know how reliable it is. In Max Clifford's (a public relations adviser) new book, he says Hewitt came to him in 1984 to ask his advice about keeping his affair with Diana secret. Hewitt eventually told Clifford that he had met Di before the wedding at a polo match, and she invited him to KP as a friend during her pregnancy with William. He became a shoulder to cry on over her unhappy marriage. A few months after William was born, in the autumn of 1982, they became lovers. Hewitt said that others knew about it at the time- police guards who let him into KP grounds, Di's ladies-in-waiting and a footman. As far as I know, none of these people have spoken about it. Clifford claims to have suggested the "riding instructor" ploy as a cover for the affair.
  #304  
Old 11-04-2005, 10:35 AM
una una is offline
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: london, United Kingdom
Posts: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
Princess Michael confirmed that Diana was upset about Charles ringing Camilla while they were on honeymoon in the tabloids recently.
I've never heard of daily phone calls either, only one from the yacht.
  #305  
Old 11-04-2005, 12:03 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I am not being nasty when I ask what Lol means?
No..not at all. :)

LOL stands for laugh out loud.
  #306  
Old 11-04-2005, 12:18 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saba
Charles waited too late to get married, women his age had baggage unbecomming to his "stage in life". He had already been around the block and back when he married a shy little young Diana who could barely lift her head when talking to people. Charles should have married when he was younger, to someone closer in age...What was he waiting for? (said in jest)

Truly sad how things worked out. In a way he had no other choice than to marry Diana, she was probably the best of the willing that could be found for him.
It is really sad.But frankly,I feel that if Prince Charles loved Camilla from the beginning,then he should have married her a long time ago.After all,she is much closer to him in age and will probably understand him better.I feel that a 13 year age gap is really too much.
  #307  
Old 11-04-2005, 12:25 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 7
Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parth
It is really sad.But frankly,I feel that if Prince Charles loved Camilla from the beginning,then he should have married her a long time ago.After all,she is much closer to him in age and will probably understand him better.I feel that a 13 year age gap is really too much.
Uh oh!My apologies for this out of the context post...I was reading the 2nd page of this topic when I wrote this...:o heh heh:o.Never mind...
  #308  
Old 11-04-2005, 12:59 PM
sesa's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: orange, United States
Posts: 684
My personal opinion is that Diana "thought" she loved Charles. I think she was infatuated with him and like any other young lady, thought she could change Charles and make him fall in love with her. Infatuation & Lust are very often mistaken for Love. She obviously knew of Camilla before hand, but like I stated above, I think she might have believed that she could make Charles forget about Camilla.
By the time she realized that she could not make him forget about Camilla, she had grown up and matured into a lovely lady that everyone loved and adored. Hence, her growing apart from Charles. Charles on the other hand, probably loved Diana "in his own way", but it was not enough for her. He probably found her immaturity very annoying which made him want to be far away from her. Hence he went back to Camilla, the one person in his life that understood him, his wants, his needs. Also, the love and adoration that Diana recieved from the world made Charles jealous, and since this was something that he could not achieve on his own, eventually, this made him resent Diana even more.
Camilla on the other hand, stood by Charles thru thick and thin, stayed out of the lime light, and took whatever was dished out to her. And she was happy with that. Now that she is married to Charles, she is still letting him take center stage. Charles has no one to compete with. His popularity is going up because of his sons and Camilla, and he is happy with that.
What I wonder is, if Camilla has any remorse for her part inthe break up of the marriage? You can tell that Charles felt love,remorse and pain on his face every time they showed him on t.v. or in pictures before during and after her funeral. But I do wonder about Camilla. She finally got her just reward, and both her and Charles are married and happy together. So good for them. Life goes on. God bless them and God rest Diana's soul.
  #309  
Old 11-04-2005, 02:56 PM
Princejohnny25's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arctica, Antarctica
Posts: 2,052
You cant feel remorse for breaking something that is already broken. And, it was not Camillas fault the marriage broke down. I think that is why it does not bother her. It was charles and dianas fault.
  #310  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:18 PM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
You cant feel remorse for breaking something that is already broken. And, it was not Camillas fault the marriage broke down. I think that is why it does not bother her. It was charles and dianas fault.
I am sorry, Camilla carries her equal share of the blame. She helped Charles handpick Diana because she thought Diana a "timid mouse" and would present no problems to them. She also made sure that Diana did not ride to hounds so she would still have a way to meet up with Charles. Camilla protected her place in Charles' life quite strongly. She made sure that she would still be a large presence in Charles' life no matter what.

I call that sharing the blame. She couldn't let go of him as much as he couldn't let go of her. Any woman marrying Charles didn't have a chance.
  #311  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:23 PM
Princejohnny25's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arctica, Antarctica
Posts: 2,052
Where is the proof that Camilla kept her place with Charles and chose Diana because she was a mouse. Charles and Camilla were great friends. She was that girl friend he could go to to find advice on women. As a friend maybe she helped him find Diana. Plus, if your going to believe everything Diana says than you must believe it when she says that 50 PERCENT of the blame is hers. So like I said before that means charles has 50 percent blame or him and Camilla have 25 each. Which would mean that the marrages breakdown was mostly Dianas fault.
  #312  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:25 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
She helped Charles handpick Diana because she thought Diana a "timid mouse" and would present no problems to them. She also made sure that Diana did not ride to hounds so she would still have a way to meet up with Charles.
That rumour has never been confirmed by a reputable source.

Given Diana's early fall from a horse which was known from the beginning of her marriage, she had enough to keep her from riding the hounds without Camilla interfering. The Queen extended an weekly invitation to Diana when Diana was first married that included a riding session but Diana was still too fearful. Pictures and reports of Diana struggling with the horse were in all the papers at the time.
  #313  
Old 11-04-2005, 04:30 PM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejonnhy25
Where is the proof that Camilla kept her place with Charles and chose Diana because she was a mouse. Charles and Camilla were great friends. She was that girl friend he could go to to find advice on women. As a friend maybe she helped him find Diana. Plus, if your going to believe everything Diana says than you must believe it when she says that 50 PERCENT of the blame is hers. So like I said before that means charles has 50 percent blame or him and Camilla have 25 each. Which would mean that the marrages breakdown was mostly Dianas fault.
That is really interesting thinking. At that moment, she was talking only about herself and Charles.

It has been recorded in various accounts from both sides that Camilla and Lady Dale Tryon vetted all of Charles' girlfriends and drew up the list of who was suitable. Diana's name was on the top. It has even been suggested that Lady Dale Tryon was mistress number two behind Camilla during this time and the two women had an "understanding".

In one book I read (I have to look it up), it was stated that the only serious fight Charles and Camilla ever had was that Camilla picked Diana and how wrong Camilla was for choosing her.
  #314  
Old 11-04-2005, 05:10 PM
Sammy's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: --, United States
Posts: 92
Tiaraprin,
I can attest to also hearing the same things. As a matter of fact there was a Vanity Fair magazine with the headline "The Mouse that Roared" referring to the name that Camilla used for Diana. I also saw on ABC's Good Morning America (I think it was on Monday) an interview with a writer for Vanity Fair magazine who has writtern an article for the December issue. He spoke to friends of Camilla's, and he said "It was an arranged marriage, and everyone knew it! Except Diana"
  #315  
Old 11-04-2005, 05:29 PM
Princejohnny25's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arctica, Antarctica
Posts: 2,052
No doubt it was an arranged marriage and EVERBODY knew it. That is why Diana waited a while before giving her answer to charles. She rarely ever saw charles and didnt have many one on ones. When she and charles were together before being engaged she would hate having charles around cause then everyone would have to act proper. She knew all of this. She was no fool. She grew up in the aristocracy. She knew everything.

Quote:
That is really interesting thinking. At that moment, she was talking only about herself and Charles.
She was also taking about Camilla. I think she said that in the Martin Basheer interview. Dont twist it around. She took half the blame. Which was the only rational thing to come out of that interview.
  #316  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:30 PM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,824
I stand behind my statements.
  #317  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:30 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
It has been recorded in various accounts from both sides that Camilla and Lady Dale Tryon vetted all of Charles' girlfriends and drew up the list of who was suitable. Diana's name was on the top. It has even been suggested that Lady Dale Tryon was mistress number two behind Camilla during this time and the two women had an "understanding".
I have a lot of problems with this story. For one, I find it hard to believe that Lady Tryon agreed to spend time vetting all of Charles potential wives just to be mistress number two and take what was left of Charles after Diana and Camilla were finished with him. Why would she go to such trouble to be 3rd in line?

In fact, if Camilla and Dale both vetted Charles' girlfriends, it makes far more sense that both were doing it as friends and not as Charles' mistresses number one and two. Friends do look out for each other and they have been known to check out each other's potential girlfriends, boyfriends,etc. You're just getting to know someone, you don't know whether to take it to a more serious level, you ask your friends because you trust their judgment. My own friends have done it for each other.

I don't know about Vanity Fair but as close-mouthed as Camilla is, I'd be surprised that she picks the type of friends that talk to reporters. We haven't gotten any juicy gossip about Charles' and Camilla's relationship after the beginning of Charles' marriage and these stories came out several years later.
  #318  
Old 11-04-2005, 06:33 PM
tiaraprin's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Near NY City, United States
Posts: 1,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I have a lot of problems with this story. For one, I find it hard to believe that Lady Tryon agreed to spend time vetting all of Charles potential wives just to be mistress number two and take what was left of Charles after Diana and Camilla were finished with him. Why would she go to such trouble to be 3rd in line?

In fact, if Camilla and Dale both vetted Charles' girlfriends, it makes far more sense that both were doing it as friends and not as Charles' mistresses number one and two. Friends do look out for each other and they have been known to check out each other's potential girlfriends, boyfriends,etc. You're just getting to know someone, you don't know whether to take it to a more serious level, you ask your friends because you trust their judgment. My own friends have done it for each other.

I don't know about Vanity Fair but as close-mouthed as Camilla is, I'd be surprised that she picks the type of friends that talk to reporters. We haven't gotten any juicy gossip about Charles' and Camilla's relationship after the beginning of Charles' marriage and these stories came out several years later.

Charles is the Prince of Wales. If Diana was so keen on an "arranged marriage" as everyone is suggesting, then how hard could it be to be Mistress Number Two??
  #319  
Old 11-04-2005, 09:03 PM
ysbel's Avatar
Heir Apparent
TRF Author
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 5,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiaraprin
Charles is the Prince of Wales. If Diana was so keen on an "arranged marriage" as everyone is suggesting, then how hard could it be to be Mistress Number Two??
tiaraprin, I really don't believe that either Charles or Diana were keen on an arranged marriage - at least a formally arranged marriage where everybody knows its just for show and children. But a couple can go into marriage with different expectations and this is the main reason marriages fail.

For Charles, I believe, practical considerations did come into play, such as producing a heir and marrying someone that would be approved. But all heirs to the throne have to think of those things. Charles at that stage of his life did not want to take risks and wanted to comply with what was expected of him. But he also wanted to marry an English girl because of his strong physical attraction to the English look and he had a wounded sensitivity that was similar to Diana's so he and Diana did have this in common even if they didn't have much else.

Diana, because she was so young, is harder to read. As a young girl, Diana idolized Prince Charles from afar and had pictures of him in her room. She did not know him well even when they married. She did have an unhappy childhood and it is not unusual for a young girl to rush into marriage from an unhappy childhood with the hope that then things will be all better. They don't necessarily love the flesh and blood human being that they're marrying, they're looking for someone to make everything alright. And the royal family at that time had an image of all that is upright and respectable in the British character. A marriage like this hardly ever works but it doesn't keep people from trying.

In fact Charles did have a history of unequal relations even if not with women. He and Andrew got along quite well as long as Andrew idolized his older brother. When Andrew grew up and became his own person, the brothers were estranged. For someone like Charles, being idolized by a young pretty girl can be a great boost to one's self-esteem in the same way that the public acclaim and adulation became a boost to Diana's self-esteem. And one feels very affectionate and caring to others who boost one's self-esteem. It never works in the end however because then the other person eventually finds out that you're human with flaws.

But to your question about Lady Tryon, I'm sorry I don't see her taking a number two mistress position with Charles because I think Charles did have some sincere but misguided affection for Diana at first and even if Lady Tryon didn't have to compete with Diana, she would have had to compete with Camilla. Plus I cannot see Charles with his lack of decision making and fear of risk taking going into a highly public marriage with two mistresses in his pocket. That is highly risky no matter how mousy you think the future wife is. I can't even see him taking one mistress in the marriage.

At this stage in his life, Charles did not take decisive action, he fell into things that others decided for him. And I don't think Camilla had that much control of him at this stage of his life to change this aspect of his character. My belief is that only the pain of a failed marriage was enough to force Charles consider taking risks to be with Camilla. At that point the risk could be seen as less than the real pain of a failed marriage.
  #320  
Old 11-05-2005, 05:37 AM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I really don't believe that either Charles or Diana were keen on an arranged marriage - at least a formally arranged marriage where everybody knows its just for show and children. But a couple can go into marriage with different expectations and this is the main reason marriages fail...
What a brilliant post Ysbel, absolutely full of wisdom and insight.:)
__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
camilla, diana princess of wales, duchess of cornwall, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana, relationships


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diana/Charles/Camilla's Relationships Part 2 Warren The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall 935 12-07-2005 06:49 PM
The Great Baby Guessing Challenge Part 4 Alexandria General Royal Discussion Archive 17 05-16-2005 08:02 PM
The Great Baby Guessing Challenge Part 3 Alexandria General Royal Discussion Archive 24 04-10-2005 06:33 PM
The Great Baby Guessing Challenge Part 2 Alexandria General Royal Discussion Archive 7 03-06-2005 11:20 AM
King Carl XVI Gustaf and Queen Silvia, Current Events Part 1: November 2002-June 2004 Josefine Current Events Archive 300 06-12-2004 08:13 AM




Popular Tags
america archie mountbatten-windsor asia birth britain britannia british british royal family buckingham palace camilla's family camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house colorblindness crown jewels customs dresses duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex edward vii elizabeth ii family life fashion and style gemstones genetics gradenigo gustaf vi adolf harry and meghan hello! henry viii history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs jack brooksbank japan japan history kensington palace king edward vii lili mountbatten-windsor list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchist movements monarchists monarchy names nara period plantinum jubilee pless politics prince harry queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen louise queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida swedish queen taiwan tradition united states of america wales welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:37 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×