Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[Hans-Rickard]

There are two Gold Sticks (the other is the colonel of the Life Guards), so it wouldn't exactly be an obligation for her. They alternate attending the opening of Parliament, for example.

That’s right but on Trooping the Colour, both Goldsticks and the Silverstick are all on duty so it remains to be seen how they do for the coronation.

Anne’s regiment Blues & Royals was formed in 1969 from the merger of the Royal Horse Guards and the Royal Dragoons, so it didn’t existed at the previous coronation…
Since Anne was appointed its Colonel and one of two Goldsticks in 1998 she has always been in uniform when attended the State Opening of Parliament.

 

[Lilyflo]

Thanks for the replies re: HMQ riding at Trooping. It wouldn't be easy to ride sidesaddle in a procession so perhaps 50 was a good age to stop. Anne rides astride though so maybe she's still keen to keep going in her 70s.

 

[Erin9]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...nation-since-1361-waiting-hear-back-charless/

"For the 2,000 people who will receive an invitation to Westminster Abbey on Saturday May 6, hearing that envelope land on the doormat will be a thrill – inside is their ticket to a front row seat to history. For Francis Dymoke, it’ll be a feeling more akin to relief. If he is invited to the coronation, he will be the 34th Dymoke to watch a King or Queen crowned since William the Conqueror."

Wow. I couldn’t read the article- behind a paywall. But- I hope he gets invited. That’s pretty amazing family history.

 

[sophie25]

Thanks for the replies re: HMQ riding at Trooping. It wouldn't be easy to ride sidesaddle in a procession so perhaps 50 was a good age to stop. Anne rides astride though so maybe she's still keen to keep going in her 70s.

The Queen was 60 in 1986

 

[Lilyflo]

The Queen was 60 in 1986

Yes she was - I was distracted by somebody saying 50 up the thread! That's some achievement I think to be riding sidesaddle down The Mall at 60 - she was such a great horsewoman wasn't she.

 

[Curryong]

I believe the Dymoke family were official Kings/Queens Champions for many centuries, or at least the heirs were. That gave them the right to attend the banquet held after each Coronation, riding a horse into the banqueting hall and throwing down a lance in the monarch’s name in case anyone wished to challenge the sovereign’s right to the Throne. That custom ended with George IV’s banquet which became such a scandalous mess that banquets were afterwards discontinued.

 

[Mary-Rose]

I know time has changed but the danish embassy in London hosted a gala dinner for CP Frederik and CP Ingrid (a few days after the coronation) is it possible some embassy's will host a dinner again? I don't expect a Tiara Events but maybe a black tie event?

 

[TLLK]

I believe the Dymoke family were official Kings/Queens Champions for many centuries, or at least the heirs were. That gave them the right to attend the banquet held after each Coronation, riding a horse into the banqueting hall and throwing down a lance in the monarch’s name in case anyone wished to challenge the sovereign’s right to the Throne. That custom ended with George IV’s banquet which became such a scandalous mess that banquets were afterwards discontinued.

At least Mr. Dymoke will be spared the lance throwing!

 

[victor1319]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...nation-since-1361-waiting-hear-back-charless/
"For the 2,000 people who will receive an invitation to Westminster Abbey on Saturday May 6, hearing that envelope land on the doormat will be a thrill – inside is their ticket to a front row seat to history. For Francis Dymoke, it’ll be a feeling more akin to relief. If he is invited to the coronation, he will be the 34th Dymoke to watch a King or Queen crowned since William the Conqueror."

This is a very interesting article here in The Telegraph! Thanks for linking it, wbenson!

The Dymokes - 34 generations as the Monarch's Champions! Since 1066!

That is an old family! I am sad to read, that the main line had a bit of a bad luck monetarily. But I wonder in what families all the other Dymokes have married over the last 1 000 years. I am somewhat sure the whole high nobility of England is in one way or another genetically connected to them.

So, I hope The Dymoke of this generation will play a role in the Coronation. It would be a good omen!

 

[Lilyflo]

But I wonder in what families all the other Dymokes have married over the last 1 000 years. I am somewhat sure the whole high nobility of England is in one way or another genetically connected to them.

All of us with predominantly British ancestry will most likely be genetically connected to the Dymokes. For example, all British heritage people are descended from Edward III according to geneticists and all European heritage people are descended from Charlemagne.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

I know time has changed but the danish embassy in London hosted a gala dinner for CP Frederik and CP Ingrid (a few days after the coronation) is it possible some embassy's will host a dinner again? I don't expect a Tiara Events but maybe a black tie event?

It would be lovely but i imagine most foreign royal guests won’t be in London for several days this time.

The Anglo-Swedish, Anglo-Danish, Anglo-Norse and Anglo-Finnish Societies sometimes hosts joint (black tie) banquets or receptions. It would be lovley to see them doing something together again when all their heads of state (it seems) will be in London at the same time again…
But i haven’t seen any of them announcing such plans yet so i don’t have high hopes

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Wow. I couldn’t read the article- behind a paywall. But- I hope he gets invited. That’s pretty amazing family history.

Wow, if anyone has the archive to this article, I’d love to read it. Thanks in advance

 

[VictoriaB]

Wow, if anyone has the archive to this article, I’d love to read it. Thanks in advance

Your wish is my command:

https://archive.is/3YDkV

 

[wbenson]

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/7226126/kings-horses-coronation/

This is mostly about the Household Cavalry's preparations, but there's a blurb at the end about some of the plans for the service:

"In 1953, four Knights of the Garter held up the corners of a silk canopy that hid the Queen from the cameras at the solemn moment when the Archbishop of Canterbury anointed her with holy oil, right.

This time the canopy will be replaced by a screen, held by four senior school pupils, that will keep King Charles and Queen Camilla out of sight of cameras.

At the Queen’s Coronation, High Commissioners carried their country’s standards down the aisle at Westminster Abbey.

But this time school children, wearing choir-style cassocks, will replace the High Commissioners and carry the standards instead. "

 

[wartenberg7]

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/7226126/kings-horses-coronation/

This is mostly about the Household Cavalry's preparations, but there's a blurb at the end about some of the plans for the service:

"In 1953, four Knights of the Garter held up the corners of a silk canopy that hid the Queen from the cameras at the solemn moment when the Archbishop of Canterbury anointed her with holy oil, right.

This time the canopy will be replaced by a screen, held by four senior school pupils, that will keep King Charles and Queen Camilla out of sight of cameras.

At the Queen’s Coronation, High Commissioners carried their country’s standards down the aisle at Westminster Abbey.

But this time school children, wearing choir-style cassocks, will replace the High Commissioners and carry the standards instead. "

a... screen, held by pupils?! Heaven´s sake, what´s next?

 

[Durham]

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/7226126/kings-horses-coronation/

This is mostly about the Household Cavalry's preparations, but there's a blurb at the end about some of the plans for the service:

"In 1953, four Knights of the Garter held up the corners of a silk canopy that hid the Queen from the cameras at the solemn moment when the Archbishop of Canterbury anointed her with holy oil, right.

This time the canopy will be replaced by a screen, held by four senior school pupils, that will keep King Charles and Queen Camilla out of sight of cameras.

At the Queen’s Coronation, High Commissioners carried their country’s standards down the aisle at Westminster Abbey.

But this time school children, wearing choir-style cassocks, will replace the High Commissioners and carry the standards instead. "

Oh dear oh dear. From knights in their finery with a silk canopy to school kids with a screen. Made of what exactly?

And who made that decision? And why? If there's any more of this sort of nonsense they might as well scrap the whole thing.

 

[Denville]

I dont quite see why it is being hidden from the public but if they feel that is necessary, dont see what's wrong with children rather than knights holdng it

 

[Durham]

I dont quite see why it is being hidden from the public but if they feel that is necessary, dont see what's wrong with children rather than knights holdng it

It's because it's a sacred moment. The most sacred of all. There's nothing wrong with kids per se but when the alternative is four knights of the garter then I definitely think it's a comedown.

It has the feel of someone trying too hard to be modern & inclusive.

 

[JGio]

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/7226126/kings-horses-coronation/

This is mostly about the Household Cavalry's preparations, but there's a blurb at the end about some of the plans for the service:

"In 1953, four Knights of the Garter held up the corners of a silk canopy that hid the Queen from the cameras at the solemn moment when the Archbishop of Canterbury anointed her with holy oil, right.

This time the canopy will be replaced by a screen, held by four senior school pupils, that will keep King Charles and Queen Camilla out of sight of cameras.

At the Queen’s Coronation, High Commissioners carried their country’s standards down the aisle at Westminster Abbey.

But this time school children, wearing choir-style cassocks, will replace the High Commissioners and carry the standards instead. "

Lord have mercy. What do they even mean with “screen held by four senior school pupils”?

 

[wbenson]

I actually think a screen could work better than the canopy depending on what exactly it will be. The canopy didn't really hide anything except from above, so something that's opaque and surrounds the anointing could emphasize its importance even more.

 

[duchessrachel]

Wow. I couldn’t read the article- behind a paywall. But- I hope he gets invited. That’s pretty amazing family history.

Here it is https://archive.is/3YDkV

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

Thank you, duchessrachel!

 

[camelot23ca]

Lord have mercy. What do they even mean with “screen held by four senior school pupils”?

It wasn’t until I read wbenson’s post below that I figured out they’re talking about some sort of plain, opaque screen to block the view. I read “senior school pupils” and my mind immediately went to some sort of giant iPad screen or similar (that the pupils could stare at intently the whole time, ignoring the rest of the ceremony entirely, thereby injecting a dose of reality into the proceedings).

 

[Mbruno]

as.

At the Queen’s Coronation, High Commissioners carried their country’s standards down the aisle at Westminster Abbey.

But this time school children, wearing choir-style cassocks, will replace the High Commissioners and carry the standards instead. "

Probably still school children from each Commonwealth realm though, or otherwise it wouldn't make any sense for them to carry the national standards.

 

[yukari]

All of us with predominantly British ancestry will most likely be genetically connected to the Dymokes. For example, all British heritage people are descended from Edward III according to geneticists and all European heritage people are descended from Charlemagne.

And speaking of ancestry, here's an interesting article from the Telegraph:

Does your family history mean you're entitled to a Coronation ticket?

Archive

(...)

The*Coronation Claims Office*has a downloadable form now available for anyone wishing to make a claim that they have a right to perform a ceremonial role on May 6. Claimants have until 5.30pm on February 3 to return their form by post or email, at which point officials will begin to examine applications, consulting with “ecclesiastical experts from Lambeth Palace and ceremonial experts from the Royal Household”.*

(...)

In reality, the Cabinet Office stresses anyone with a legitimate claim to make will likely already know about it; the people who have historically performed roles at coronations have been members of the nobility and their descendants will have inherited their titles. But if this were as straightforward as hereditary peers simply stepping into roles their forebears have performed for generations, you’d think there would be no need for a public application form.

(...)

In the past, proving precedent to the Court of Claims has been a source of conflict. Since it was first established in the 14th century there have been “terrible punch-ups over who did what,” says Sir Roy. “They were always having a punch-up over who got this and who carried the glove and who rode in on horseback.”

When the late Queen was crowned in 1953, 21 people claimed the right to perform roles at her coronation. Only 16 were accepted. “The Duke of Newcastle, as Lord of the Manor of Worksop, traditionally presented the glove to protect the Sovereign’s hand while holding the sceptre,” writes Hugo Vickers in his book Coronation. “Unfortunately for him, the Duke had recently placed the Manor of Worksop into a limited company – the London and Fort George Land Company Ltds – to oversee his estates.

“This company claimed the right to present the glove but the Committee decided that they were not going to grant limited companies any rights over coronation regalia. The claim was rejected.”

(...)

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Will the Government block Prince Henry from attending the Coronation?
The King may leave it up to the Prime Minister.

 

[Denville]

It wasn’t until I read wbenson’s post below that I figured out they’re talking about some sort of plain, opaque screen to block the view. I read “senior school pupils” and my mind immediately went to some sort of giant iPad screen or similar (that the pupils could stare at intently the whole time, ignoring the rest of the ceremony entirely, thereby injecting a dose of reality into the proceedings).

Hardly. I think it is not a bad idea. the children symbolise innocence and will problaby come from different countries

 

[Lilyflo]

I think it's a great idea to include older children in the ceremony. They're citizens too and I'd love to see the coronation involving the full range of the realms' populations rather than predominantly old white men (again).

 

[Denville]

I think it's a great idea to include older children in the ceremony. They're citizens too and I'd love to see the coronation involving the full range of the realms' populations rather than predominantly old white men (again).

Why do you imagine its all old white men? the queen's funeral had a large number of people of colour...

 

[Lilyflo]

Why do you imagine its all old white men? the queen's funeral had a large number of people of colour...

My post is about coronations not funerals.