Charles III: Coronation Information and Musings - Part 1

[JGio]

Charles III: Coronation Musings and Information

The fact that the invitations have not been sent out as of today, scares me. Isn’t it a bit late if the dresscode will be long-gowns, white tie and robes? I guess people needs at least one month to arrange some decent outfits.
It sounds like it won’t be a fussy event (day dress)

 

[EllieCat]

the lack of general enthusiasm only weeks before the big day really does worry me.

Wasn't that so for the Queen's Silver, Diamond and Platinum Jubilees? but they all turned out to be very popular on the day.

Personally I here in New Zealand am looking forward to it, as are my friends. It'll be my first coronation, but i hope there I can see at least one more before i depart this mortal coil. I doubt I'll see George's.

And republicans don´t only seem to point out how uninterested they are, they seem to organise themselves these days...

Yes, they seem to think they have the 'right' to speak for everyone.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The Concert ballot tickets have been allocated - yesterday received an email that I had been successful

PrincessofEurope, Congratulations on acquiring the Concert tickets!

 

[Durham]

Mounties to feature in King’s slimmed-down coronation procession

RCMP riders are to accompany the Household Cavalry as part of the King’s official mounted escort in the procession from Westminster Abbey to Buckingham Palace.

Four Mounties led the Queen’s funeral procession last September in plans approved by the Queen herself during her lifetime.

“While plans are still evolving, we can confirm that an RCMP mounted contingent, similar in size to the one that took part in the funeral procession for Queen Elizabeth, is being planned for the coronation of His Majesty King Charles III,” said Corporal Kim Chamberland, an RCMP spokesperson.

That's welcome news. At the late queen's coronation there was a large contingent from the RCMP.

Hopefully the ADF & NZDF will contribute in some way.

 

[Durham]

Wasn't that so for the Queen's Silver, Diamond and Platinum Jubilees? but they all turned out to be very popular on the day.

Yes indeed. And for the 2012 Olympics as well! They all turned out to be very popular in the end.

And George of Wales might be a page to his father & carry his coronet.

 

[Mbruno]

The fact that the invitations have not been sent out as of today, scares me. Isn’t it a bit late if the dresscode will be long-gowns, white tie and robes? I guess people needs at least one month to arrange some decent outfits.
It sounds like it won’t be a fussy event (day dress)

How do you know that invitations have not been sent out yet?

 

[Alison H]

Some reports say that only "save the date" e-mails have been sent out so far.

 

[LauraS3514]

Princess Alexandra wore a coronet at the Queen's coronation and she wasn't the daughter of a King so who knows

There are very specific coronets for the Heir Apparent, the children of The Sovereign and for The Sovereign's grandchildren via sons with a different one for grandchildren via daughters. They have different elements, numbers of elements, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet

 

[LauraS3514]

delete please

 

[HenRach Dominion]

There are very specific coronets for the Heir Apparent, the children of The Sovereign and for The Sovereign's grandchildren via sons with a different one for grandchildren via daughters. They have different elements, numbers of elements, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronet

Thank you for this information. Assuming that there's no mistake in the Wikipedia article, I have a couple of questions:

1. When the article states "Child of a Sovereign", does it mean, as I presume, any British Sovereign as opposed to just children of HM The King?
2. Given that there's no distinction, would HRH The Prince of Wales wear the same coronet as his brother, uncles, and aunt in spite being the heir apparent?
3. Would HRH The Princess Royal's children be allowed to wear coronets because they are "Child[ren] of a daughter of a sovereign" in spite being untitled?
4. Will those with royal dukedoms wear the coronet for a duke instead of a prince?

 

[LauraS3514]

Thank you for this information. Assuming that there's no mistake in the Wikipedia article, I have a couple of questions:

1. When the article states "Child of a Sovereign", does it mean, as I presume, any British Sovereign as opposed to just children of HM The King?

Yes, ANY child of a Sovereign. Princess Margaret, Prince Henry Duke of Gloucester, and Princess Mary Princess Royal all wore the coronets of a child of The Sovereign at George VI's and Elizabeth II's Coronations.

2. Given that there's no distinction, would HRH The Prince of Wales wear the same coronet as his brother, uncles, and aunt in spite being the heir apparent?

No, there is a special coronet for the Heir Apparent. It has a single arch.

3. Would HRH The Princess Royal's children be allowed to wear coronets because they are "Child[ren] of a daughter of a sovereign" in spite being untitled?

I'm not sure on this one. Does anyone know if The Hon Gerald Lascelles wore a coronet in 1953? His older brother was already Earl of Harewood but I'm not sure if he wore an Earl's coronet or a grandchild's.

4. Will those with royal dukedoms wear the coronet for a duke instead of a prince?

No, they will wear the coronets of a Prince - Harry, Andrew, and Edward will wear the coronet of a child of the monarch. Richard Gloucester and Edward Kent that of a grandchild (as will Beatrice, Eugenie, Alexandra, and Michael. Again, not sure about Peter and Zara.) Provided, of course, that full dress is worn.

 

[Somebody]

Thank you for this information. Assuming that there's no mistake in the Wikipedia article, I have a couple of questions:

1. When the article states "Child of a Sovereign", does it mean, as I presume, any British Sovereign as opposed to just children of HM The King?
2. Given that there's no distinction, would HRH The Prince of Wales wear the same coronet as his brother, uncles, and aunt in spite being the heir apparent?
3. Would HRH The Princess Royal's children be allowed to wear coronets because they are "Child[ren] of a daughter of a sovereign" in spite being untitled?
4. Will those with royal dukedoms wear the coronet for a duke instead of a prince?

Regarding 1: yes, it reads A Sovereign not THE Sovereign.
Regarding 2: no, the article clearly states (and pictures) the unique coronet for the heir apparent (which includes an arch).
Regarding 3: My take is that Peter and Zara are not supposed to wear coronets as they are neither peers nor highnesses/prince(ss) (which is referenced as the requirement for type V in this article).
Regarding 4: They derive their 'precedence' from being royal, so that seems to trump being a duke.

 

[wbenson]

The fact that the invitations have not been sent out as of today, scares me. Isn’t it a bit late if the dresscode will be long-gowns, white tie and robes? I guess people needs at least one month to arrange some decent outfits.
It sounds like it won’t be a fussy event (day dress)

I've always been assuming it would be day dress for ~90% of the people in the Abbey. The main question in my mind has been, if that assumption is correct, if it would be something like the opening of Parliament where a small group wears something else. I think the peers who participate in the ceremony like the Earl Marshal, Lord Great Chamberlain, etc. will wear robes, though I'm not sure it will be the traditional coronation robe, perhaps just the parliamentary robe.

There was recently a story in the Mirror reporting that the Duke of York might be prohibited from wearing the robe of the Order of the Garter. Is that an indication of what's being planned for the royal family, is it a confused source who wasn't aware that another type of robe was being discussed, or is it just completely wrong? Who knows.

 

[wbenson]

Prime Minister announces Canadian ceremony to mark the Coronation of His Majesty King Charles III

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today announced that a ceremony will be held in Ottawa for His Majesty’s Coronation on May 6, 2023, beginning a new chapter in our country’s history. The ceremony will acknowledge the special relationship His Majesty has had with Canada for over 50 years and celebrate his reign as King of Canada.

The event will include speeches, artistic performances, and special unveilings. Dignitaries from the Table of Precedence of Canada, including members of the King’s Privy Council for Canada, eminent Canadians, and individuals with ties to causes dear to His Majesty will be in attendance.

 

[Curryong]

I've always been assuming it would be day dress for ~90% of the people in the Abbey. The main question in my mind has been, if that assumption is correct, if it would be something like the opening of Parliament where a small group wears something else. I think the peers who participate in the ceremony like the Earl Marshal, Lord Great Chamberlain, etc. will wear robes, though I'm not sure it will be the traditional coronation robe, perhaps just the parliamentary robe.

There was recently a story in the Mirror reporting that the Duke of York might be prohibited from wearing the robe of the Order of the Garter. Is that an indication of what's being planned for the royal family, is it a confused source who wasn't aware that another type of robe was being discussed, or is it just completely wrong? Who knows.

Have male members of the BRF ever worn Garter robes at Coronations? For instance did George VIs brothers do so, or were they just peerage robes such as the other peers of the realm wore?

 

[wbenson]

Have male members of the BRF ever worn Garter robes at Coronations? For instance did George VIs brothers do so, or were they just peerage robes such as the other peers of the realm wore?

They wore peers' coronation robes with extra rows of ermine to denote their rank. Here's Prince Philip's robe. A non-royal duke's robe would have fewer rows of ermine spots at the top, and none going down the front edges. I believe the royal ones are longer too.

Edit: The future Edward VIII seems to have worn the Garter robe in 1911.

 

[Curryong]

Thanks for the prompt reply on the robes. I wonder why Andrew wants to wear his Garter robes, IF the story is correct. Is he anxious that he won’t be able to wear military uniform, perhaps

 

[southwind]

Sure the story is fake

 

[Mbruno]

Some reports say that only "save the date" e-mails have been sent out so far.

I doubt it as we know that at least the Sussexes and the Emperor of Japan have already received formal invitations.

 

[Stefan]

I doubt it as we know that at least the Sussexes and the Emperor of Japan have already received formal invitations.

Wasn't it said that the Sussexes had some email contact with HM's office.

I remember from the Cambridge Wedding that some blanco Invitation had been published on the RF's social media at the time they were sent. Would they not do the same for the Coronation?

 

[Prisma]

As of March 13, Japan has not yet received the formal invitation.

Japan Crown Prince, Princess to Attend King Charles III's Coronation | Nippon.com

Japanese Crown Prince Akishino and Crown Princess Kiko plan to attend the coronation of Britain's King Charles III in London on May 6, the Imperial Household Agency said Monday.

The cabinet will approve the plan once Japan receives an official invitation from Britain.

The British government asked Japan late last month to send the head of state or his deputy to the coronation, according to the agency and others. [...]

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Which is the first church to ring the bells on Coronation Day?

 

[Mbruno]

As of March 13, Japan has not yet received the formal invitation.

Japan Crown Prince, Princess to Attend King Charles III's Coronation | Nippon.com

How did the British government "ask Japan to send the head of state or his deputy to the coronation" without issuing a formal invitation? That sounds very unusal and not something that an experienced diplomatic service like the UK FCO would do. I find those reports strange to say the least.

 

[tommy100]

For the late Queen's funeral foreign dignitary guests were sent a list of what they were being invited to by the Foreign Office. For William and Catherine's wedding "save the date" letters informing European royal houses of invites to come were sent out by fax.

I suspect the Japanese Imperial Family and other foreign invitees have received some sort of notice that they will be invited so the formal invites are just that - a formality of what has already been agreed.

 

[Izzie]

How did the British government "ask Japan to send the head of state or his deputy to the coronation" without issuing a formal invitation? That sounds very unusal and not something that an experienced diplomatic service like the UK FCO would do. I find those reports strange to say the least.

Well the FCO did have to offer a formal apology to the Danish Royal Family after they invited and the un-invited Crown Princess Mary to QEII's funeral. You would not think that an experienced diplomatic service like the UK FCO would do that either...but alas, they did and like state previously, had to offer a formal and public apology.

 

[Curryong]

Will King Charles’s grandchildren receive a Coronation Medal, I wonder?

 

[wbenson]

Will King Charles’s grandchildren receive a Coronation Medal, I wonder?

I would expect so, so long as he is as free with his medals as his predecessors were with theirs. The previous jubilee and coronation medals seem to have gone out to every family member with a pulse. We may never see some of them but in fifteen years or so we'll likely find that Prince George has a jubilee medal and a coronation medal.

 

[Curryong]

Thanks wBenson. I hope that this tradition doesn’t fall victim to cost cutting arrangements for this Coronation.

The trouble imo with knowing whether certain younger members HAVE received jubilee and Coronation medals is that older males wear them on their jackets/uniforms on formal occasions when appropriate, but females usually don’t display them unless they wear uniforms which is rare. Guess we’ll have to wait and see!

 

[yukari]

(It's The Times, but this article is free to read)

George, Charlotte and Louis to star in King’s coronation

(...)

Plans show that Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis are all set to join their grandfather and the Queen as they leave the abbey at the end of the ceremony on May 6.

The procession back to Buckingham Palace is likely to be about a third of the size it was for Queen Elizabeth’s coronation in 1953.

(...)

The rehearsal plans show that, as expected, neither*Harry and Meghan*nor the Duke of York will take part in the procession, which is confined to working members of the royal family. Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie will not be in the procession either.

Apart from the Prince and Princess of Wales and their children, the only other royals in the procession out of the abbey will be the Princess Royal and her husband, Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence, the new Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh, the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, and the Duke of Kent and his sister Princess Alexandra.

The rehearsal plans show where the regalia will be carried in the procession into the abbey, including the St Edward’s Crown, the orb, the sceptre with cross, St Edward’s Staff and the Swords of Mercy, Spiritual Justice and Temporal Justice. It has not yet been revealed who will carry them.

While Buckingham Palace has been emphatic that the carriage procession afterwards will be “amazing in both scale and splendour”, it will be significantly smaller — and cover a shorter route — than the procession after Queen Elizabeth’s coronation.

(...)

 

[Alison H]

That all sounds promising.