Charles and Camilla: The Marriage (2005 and on)

[Zonk]

Let' get back on topic...the marriage of Charles and Camilla.

All posts regarding the discussion of the carriage ride and balcony appearance should be posted in http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...rriage-procession-5-june-2012-a-33136-20.html All posts about the role of the British Royal Family during the reign of Charles should be inhttp://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-monarchy-under-charles-16252-47.html thread.

Thanks!

Zonk
British Forums Moderator

 

[AdmirerUS]

Passions

I have two related questions regarding opera.

There has been another press story about Charles and Kate going to the opera together. That's lovely.

I wonder though, does Camilla not like opera? It's understandable and she would have many fellows in her preference.

The second question is does anyone know Charles' opera preferences? Is he a Wagnerian, a fan of Opera Buffa or do his tastes head elsewhere or everywhere?

Handel would be an obvious historical pick but we know Prince Charles does not feel a need to follow the pack. Thanks!

 

[Princess Peach]

You know, I completely agree. I think time is finally beginning to heal a lot of old wounds, and with that comes a much brighter future for the monarchy.

Prince Charles has been downright charming as of late, and hopefully that's changing minds and hearts. And Camilla does a wonderful job supporting him, and there's no doubt in my mind that she'll make a wonderful Queen Consort when the time comes.

I agree! I think that the fact that both of Charles' sons (and more importantly, Diana's sons) have declared publicly their support for Camilla should be an indication to the public that they are a good team.

Having come of age in the Diana years, and watched the horror of her tragic death and the public outcry, I NEVER would have thought Camilla would have been accepted by the public. But memories are short lived, and 15 years have now passed. It takes me by surprise to think that my children will really never know who Diana was, and will only really identify Charles with Camilla (if they ever took an interest in royalty, that is! )

I am not one to condone extramarital affairs, but I think these two belonged together from day one. Life goes on, as they say. And again, the support of William and Harry is really the lynch pin of my opinion on the whole matter.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Nicely said, Princess Peach. I also grew up during the Diana years and remember the horror of her death and the aftermath. I never thought Charles would subsequently marry Camilla and that she would be accepted by the public. But time marches on and two people who rightly or wrongly took a very tortured and circuitous path to be with each other are finally together, and if Charles' sons accept her who are we to say otherwise? But slowly and persistently, they've made great strides in winning acceptance from the British people by their own efforts, and I think they'll do quite well on the throne in the long run.

 

[cdngirl]

In mentioning the Queen's Jubilee there were questions about exactly who everyone was, like who was William, who was Harry - was he also the grandson of the Queen and who was he then the son of - stuff I'm sure any Brit would hear in disbelief.

Please tell me you are joking.

There has been another press story about Charles and Kate going to the opera together. That's lovely.

I wonder though, does Camilla not like opera? It's understandable and she would have many fellows in her preference.

I also think that is lovely if true. I could of sworn I read somewhere though that the Duchess of Cornwall loved Opera.

 

[COESpiral]

Will Camilla be Queen Consort when Charles becomes King or will she be considered Princess Consort? I know there was a lot of talk about this before they married and trying to be sensitive to Diana's fans, but Camilla really has come a long way in 15 years and the public has warmed to her. Would they want her to be Queen or is there still animosity in the idea?

 

[wbenson]

The current official position is that "it is intended that The Duchess of Cornwall will use the title HRH The Princess Consort when The Prince of Wales accedes to The Throne."

 

[MARG]

Whether "people" are for Camilla or against Camilla is irrelevant. It will take a legislative change for her to actually become anything other than Queen Consort, regardless of what she is called. At present she is Princess of Wales but referred to by the lesser title of Duchess of Cornwall.

 

[Princess Peach]

Whether "people" are for Camilla or against Camilla is irrelevant. It will take a legislative change for her to actually become anything other than Queen Consort, regardless of what she is called. At present she is Princess of Wales but referred to by the lesser title of Duchess of Cornwall.

That's true.

I am also of the opinion that to crown one and not the other is a slap in the face to Camilla, the woman. Charles was just as much at fault in the affair, perhaps more so as he was the one married to someone who expected fidelity (Andrew Parker Bowles didn't care). Why should he be crowned and not her? Why not just put a scarlet letter on her during the coronation?

 

[Osipi]

I really do see Camilla being crowned Queen Consort along side her husband because that is the only thing that she will be. What has gone on previously in their private affairs is not a factor nor is popular opinion of the man on the street. When it comes to official affairs of state, there's protocol and certain ways of doing things and I think with Charles being as traditionally minded as he is, he will not make waves.

Over the past 7 years, Camilla has shown herself to be a valuable asset to the House of Windsor and has won over people wherever she's gone. I think perhaps that at the time of the marriage, Camilla wasn't sure about doing royal duties and perhaps uncomfortable with all that entails. She never was much for the limelight but she jumped in with both feet and has done excellently. I've really noticed how happy the both of them seem when they do engagements together.

 

[scooter]

Actually in the recent commemorative Diamond Jubilee issue of Newsweek, it cited a poll that only 31% want C and C crowned. May I ask where you are getting your poll on what is the popular opinion of the man on the street?

 

[Osipi]

Actually in the recent commemorative Diamond Jubilee issue of Newsweek, it cited a poll that only 31% want C and C crowned. May I ask where you are getting your poll on what is the popular opinion of the man on the street?

Actually what my point was that it doesn't matter one bit what the man in the street thinks. It will have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether or not Camilla is crowned Queen Consort.

 

[scooter]

Well perhaps we shall see, if Charles' attempts it. From his own spokesperson, and I am taking the man at his word, he clearly said at the time of the proposed wedding to Camilla, 'It is intended that she will be Princess Consort'. Now either Charles, by way of his minion, was telling the truth, in which case no coronation for Camilla, or he was being disingenuous at best and/or saying whatever was necessary to make the marriage tolerable to John Bull on the street, so as to avoid an outright rebellion. If he had come out and said 'It's going to be Queen Camilla and her crowned at my side' it might have been a bit dicey for Charles to stay first in line.

 

[Royal Newbie]

Well perhaps we shall see, if Charles' attempts it. From his own spokesperson, and I am taking the man at his word, he clearly said at the time of the proposed wedding to Camilla, 'It is intended that she will be Princess Consort'. Now either Charles, by way of his minion, was telling the truth, in which case no coronation for Camilla, or he was being disingenuous at best and/or saying whatever was necessary to make the marriage tolerable to John Bull on the street, so as to avoid an outright rebellion. If he had come out and said 'It's going to be Queen Camilla and her crowned at my side' it might have been a bit dicey for Charles to stay first in line.

Do you think Charles will push for legislative change to name Camilla Princess Consort? What if he does and Parliament states they won't waste their time on this and Camilla will be Queen Consort? Does parliament even factor into this type of change?

 

[Madame Royale]

Over the years I've had some wonderfully robust conversations regarding Camilla's future style and designation, and my opinion remains unchanged.

It's not that I wish to deprive Camilla of the title of Majesty for the sake of any petty or trivial matter; I just think it would be a wonderful tribute to her to be known as Princess Consort. In fact, I believe Camilla should be created a Princess in her own right at that time. Such an honour.

Yes, it will mean that she will not hold the same rank as her husband as convention dictates, and I understand that the proposed motion eventuated as a means to appease and thus restrict; but I have chosen to view it in a different light. Not because I am ignorant of the motivations but because I see value and honour in it.

I also think it would provide Camilla with an added freedom to define her role during the reign of her husband.

Of one thing we can all be certain is that Camilla would undoubtedly retain the position of First Lady of the land and her position in both the official and private Order of Precedence. As the spouse of the sovereign, that is considered absolute and rightly so.

 

[royalistbert]

Camilla will be Queen. Never in history has there ever been a Princess Consort. The public will come around.

 

[Kataryn]

I don't want to discuss any reasons here - so please, don't do it either.

But for me Camilla has proven during the last 7 years that she has been a much more trustworthy, loyal and faithful wife to Charles and a very supportive and serving subject to Her Majesty than Diana ever did. And she will be an exemplary queen consort.

 

[Royal Newbie]

Over the years I've had some wonderfully robust conversations regarding Camilla's future style and designation, and my opinion remains unchanged.

It's not that I wish to deprive Camilla of the title of Majesty for the sake of any petty or trivial matter, I just think it would be a wonderful tribute to her to be known as Princess Consort. Infact, I believe Camilla should be created a Princess in her own right at that time. Such an honour.

Yes, it will mean that she will not hold the same rank as her husband as convention dictates, and I understand that the proposed motion eventuated as a means to appease and thus restrict; but I have chosen to view it in a different light. Not because I am ignorant of the motivations but because I see value and honour in it.

I also think it would provide Camilla with an added freedom to define her role during the reign of her husband.

Of one thing we can all be certain is that Camilla would undoubtedly retain the position of First Lady of the land and her position in both the official and private Order of Precedence. As the spouse of the sovereign, that is considered absolute and rightly so.

If letters are issued creating her as The Princess Consort does that make her a princess in her own right? Or can they be issued without that honour?

I apologize if this is off topic. Is there a thread for this topic?

 

[BellaFay]

I have two related questions regarding opera.

There has been another press story about Charles and Kate going to the opera together. That's lovely.

I wonder though, does Camilla not like opera? It's understandable and she would have many fellows in her preference.

The second question is does anyone know Charles' opera preferences? Is he a Wagnerian, a fan of Opera Buffa or do his tastes head elsewhere or everywhere?

Handel would be an obvious historical pick but we know Prince Charles does not feel a need to follow the pack. Thanks!

Charles does like Wagner opera - according to an interview given by Stephen Fry, who is also a Wagner fan. But Charles also likes Mozart and Verdi. I suspect Camilla prefers the theatre - the couple often go to plays together e.g. Alan Bennett's recent play - and she certainly likes literature & reading.

 

[Madame Royale]

. . . than Diana ever did.

To bring Diana into the equation is unecessary and not constructive for discussion. It could be considered as provocation for conversational discord as there is never a conversation regarding all three that ever ends politely. Sad, but true.

If letters are issued creating her as The Princess Consort does that make her a princess in her own right? Or can they be issued without that honour?

If it doesn't, then it should imo. I'm sure there is someone who is better informed than I to answer your question

 

[Royal Newbie]

To bring Diana into the equation is unecessary and not constructive for discussion. It could be considered as provocation for conversational discord as there is never a conversation regarding all three that ever ends politely. Sad, but true.



If it doesn't, then it should imo. I'm sure there is someone who is better informed than I to answer your question

Thank you, Madame Royale. I find this topic very interesting yet fraught with much emotion and strong conflicting opinions.

 

[Madame Royale]

You're not wrong, Royal Newbie.

There seems very little middle ground on the matter. Personally, I'm really quite moderate in my views as I'm not the type of person who feels a need to idolize one and ridicule the other. I really like Camilla. I find her to be a particularly warm and engaging individual (from afar, anyway).

I think people, in general, need to learn to take more positives out of life. While any such decision may seem unfairly demoting to many, I see it as a significant honour, even if it wasn't initially intended as such. I think more good than harm would come of it and I truly believe Camilla would continue to flourish in the role. Perhaps (?) even more so than in the constricts of the traditional norm. They will no doubt be considerably aged by the time Charles becomes King and at a time when people would be forgiven for starting to slow down, so to speak, they will be somewhat expected to maintain a level of social engagement not dissimilar to what we see of them now. If not more more.

 

[COUNTESS]

Look, I have never been a fan of Camilla, but she is Charles' wife and so she should be queen consort. They love each other for many years and to that end it is admirable. How they got to here, no longer matters. It is all over. How the British feel, is their own "real concern." For them it is not a matter of opinion.

 

[Tyger]

I think the British will demean themselves in the eyes of the world (that cares about such things) if they do not honor their own traditions and abide by the rules that say Camilla will be Queen Consort when Charles is King.

 

[Madame Royale]

I don't think the British system would be demeaned at all. Technically speaking as a Brit, that is. I am but one opinion though, naturally.

Furthermore, I see it as being an entirely British matter be it with some degree of Commonwealth realm involvement. As for any other nation, I think glass houses should not cast stones where judgement on internal matters of state are concerned.

 

[cdngirl]

I think this whole debate is pretty moot. There is no doubt in my mind she will be Queen Consort. The people are liking what the see in Camilla, and quite frankly, many people have simply moved on.

 

[Madame Royale]

What will be will be. Whatever the granted or maintained title, Camilla will in my opinion, remain a welcome asset.

 

[scooter]

I think this whole debate is pretty moot. There is no doubt in my mind she will be Queen Consort. The people are liking what the see in Camilla, and quite frankly, many people have simply moved on.

Again, which 'people are liking what they see'? And may I ask what evidence you are basing this on? I just cited a poll in an internationally recognised magazine in a comemorative issue for the Diamond Jubilee still on the stands. Certainly on a heavily moderated board, one might think so....but whose car was it that was attacked by the crowd? Have you looked on some unmoderated forums or for that matter on you tube? That might be an eye opener...

 

[Madame Royale]

I dont think anyone can cotton wool the fact that a great deal of people who respond to editorial articles appear to speak rather poorly of Camilla. As such, I concede that I read more negative opinions than I do positive in this regard.

They seem to me as being opinions substantiated by prejudice and willful ignorance much of the time, but such opinions still represent a degree of public sentiment nonetheless.

I would suggest that for every person who celebrates the Duchess you're likely to find 3 that either don't like her or care nothing for her at all. And that is being realistic imo.

In my every day life, I've not come across too many people who share my pleasant opinion of her, be it either here in Australia or in Britain. And although she is accorded a significant degree of acceptance (tolerance ?) in her capacity as Charles' wife, I don't think I can justly attest to there being any significant sway in support of Camilla, the person.

 

[MARG]

Again, which 'people are liking what they see'? And may I ask what evidence you are basing this on? I just cited a poll in an internationally recognised magazine in a comemorative issue for the Diamond Jubilee still on the stands.

I just tried researching the method and population base upon which this much vaunted poll was based. Funny, for all the percentages thrown around, the one thing omitted was precisely that information.

....but whose car was it that was attacked by the crowd?

Oh good grief, not that old chestnut again! It was established both by the Police and in the Courts of Law, that the little rioting darlings hadn't a clue anyone of importance was coming their way let alone who it was. Needless to say, this subject has been discussed at length, not least on this forum. Please cease trying to rewrite history. It is tedious!

Have you looked on some unmoderated forums or for that matter on you tube? That might be an eye opener...

There are an astonishing number of truly sick units out there which is why most normal forum users avoid wallowing in filth.