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  #1221  
Old 08-28-2017, 07:47 AM
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but the pont being made is not that Camilla is the "perfect person" for Charles but that she si seen as enabling/ encouraging his "fussy old man" who is Edwardian in his habits image.
Whereas Diana seemed for a time to "lighten" Charles' image.. by herself being a young lively pretty modern woman, and encouraging him to be affectionate in public, to be seen holding his children, to wear more fashionable clothes etc.
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  #1222  
Old 08-28-2017, 08:08 AM
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In that respect, I'd say Camilla took Charles for who he was without trying to change him. Diana tried to mold him into an image that she perceived. I agree with Iluvbertie that when all was said and done and he married Camilla, he became his own person comfortable in his own skin.
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  #1223  
Old 08-28-2017, 08:33 AM
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Yes but it is how he's perceived. I think it is true that in his first years with Diana, he did seem to be trying to be flexible and a modern father.

Camilla does take him as he is, and tries tot make him comfortable.. and she has her own house to retreat to when perhaps his fussiness and old fashioned ways get a bit tiresome.
I think he's certainly a lot happier with Camilla, but I can understand the point that nowadays, perhaps he does come across more and more as a bit of an Edwardian fuddy duddy, nice but a bit old fashioned.
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  #1224  
Old 08-28-2017, 09:07 AM
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Y'know, I think we've hit on something when it comes to Camilla and the public which is the topic of this thread. The word "perception". Everyone sees things differently and with that, public opinion is able to be shaped by those that put the message out there of who these people really are. That's why we have books and interviews and documentaries and of course, right there at the front of it all are the tabloids.

Its easy to see how public opinion can be so swayed by the front runner tabloids that have the sensational headlines to draw people in and present the image of what the reporters want their public to see.

Maybe we're the lucky ones that actually care enough to get all different kinds of perspectives. Its why we're here. We discuss and we disagree and agree and revise opinions and fortify our information. The general public does not do this. The more I think about it, I believe the BRF knows this. Their PR people know this and in the long run, public opinion is like the wind. Blows in different directions. If its blowing in one's favor today, its also very possible that it'll change and blow in the opposite direction tomorrow.
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  #1225  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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well that's the point that the poster (sorry I can't remember who) was making about Camilla.. that she is SEEN as encouraging charles in his "old fuddy duddy" eccentric Edwardian mode.. whereas Di was seen as moderniising and humanising him.
and yes of course, the BRF's court knows all too well that public opinion is very ficlkle.. so oen cant' take too much stock of polls and headlines int the papers or even what people chat about around the water cooler.
And I think Charles has learned now to ignore the occasional burst of "anti Charles" sentiment..
But it doesn't stop the royals and hteir staff from trying to get them good PR and creating a climate where they aere basically liked.. just that they know enough not to be cast down by a brief period of unpopularity. the way out such a trough, for a Royal, is usually to be seen working hard and getting on with the job, and people then forget..
Of courset there are people who will never never forgive Charles and Camilla, no matter what.. and there are those who will never forgive Diana for what they see as HER faults.. but most of the public is swayed, and so I don't think that Charles needs to worry too much.
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  #1226  
Old 08-28-2017, 01:02 PM
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I'm glad my observations have sparked some lively debate here! Even if most disagree with me LOL

My post was actually more about Camilla than about Charles--about how hard it must be for Camilla, knowing that if she makes Charles happy (by "loving him just as he is" or by "encouraging his Edwardian ways" depending on how you view it) then she'll make a segment of the public unhappy about her. She's kind of between a rock and a hard place.
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  #1227  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:18 PM
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I should think she's more concerned about makng her husband happy and being happy herself, than bothering too much what the public think....
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  #1228  
Old 08-28-2017, 03:26 PM
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Indeed so Denville, that is what matters.. pleasing so capricious a thing as 'the public' is an impossible and fruitless task...
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  #1229  
Old 08-29-2017, 01:08 PM
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If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.
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  #1230  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DeeT View Post
If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.
I did'nt know that Penny Junnor's book was the official biography of the Duchess of Cornwall ,and approved as such by Clarence House.
Wait ... it's not !
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  #1231  
Old 08-30-2017, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DeeT View Post
If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.
What's your point? I don't know if they approved of it, but they are public figures and as such of course they are going to want positive coverage. However I don't believe that Camilla or Charles busts a gut to get it, or worries too much about it. THey know that there will be criticism and also "gushy" unrealistic praise..Of course they will be pleased if they get good press, but it isn't going to fundamentaly change what they do...
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  #1232  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:01 AM
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It has been years since I posted. I can only believe I've felt prompted by the anniversary of Diana's death. I was surprised that all the programmes about her stirred up my feelings at the time it happened..................however, despite that I've been virulently anti Camilla, I can only conclude -although it doesn't sit entirely comfortably- that in my view, she's a far more suitable and appropriate wife for him than Diana. This view takes nothing away from Diana and her many achievements -the greatest of which HAS to be her two wonderful boys who are such a credit to her- but on the day she married Charles, I made the pronouncement "Sadly, there are far more than thirteen chronological years which separate them, but at least she's making the one marriage which can't fail"!!!!
It's impossible to compare their relationships. On the one hand we had a naive 19 year old girl, overwhelmed and deferential to an older man who just happened to be The Prince of Wales, getting married to a man she simply didn't know, to be balanced against a relationship of equals -I feel certain Camilla would only have ever payed lip service to being deferential- which would have made it easier for a friendship -based on all the important things they had in common- to form. That friendship has endured for the best part of 40 years. There was no way Diana -with all her many attributes- was going to break it.
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  #1233  
Old 09-03-2017, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have the exact opposite view of Charles. He was 'in touch' and very much a man of the people before he was with Diana. As his marriage disintegrated he reverted more and more to the typical upper class nobleman, of Diana's standing, and lost touch and became 'dehumanised'. The valet with the toothbrush story was during the Diana years - and after he damaged him shoulder.

He is more in touch with the average person now than he was in the 80s - and that is Camilla - she has brought him back to where he was before Diana.

Most Diana fans don't look beyond her looks (I know Diana fans who claim she 'couldn't lie as she was young and beautiful' as if being young and beautiful meant she couldn't lie) to see the negative impact she had on Charles - making him miserable from almost day 1. He lost his common touch, he lost his ability to laugh at himself, he took himself way too seriously when Diana was around but now he is the fun loving man he was in the 70s again.

Sadly the public don't want that - they want the miserable man in an unhappy marriage so that Diana could be happy.
I have to agree with your observation of Charles in relation to being in touch with the average man. By the time Charles married he had long come to the conclusion that his mother was not going to pass away anytime soon and took advantage of the almost unique opportunity to create a "Prince of Wales job", starting with the Princes Trust and he's still creating.

Like it or not each one in the so-called CDC triangle had their own life and their own history. They were not just a husband or wife, they were their own person. Camilla's permanent appearance in his life has been a very positive one. She gives Charles unconditional love and support and enables him to be the best he can be.

Meanwhile, Camilla has quietly set about supporting causes near and dear to her. Bone disease, animal welfare, reading, were an uncontroversial choice and over time she has progressed to such causes as aid and support to Rape victims, domestic violence victims, etc. and she has received quite good news coverage for those causes she supports. She will see more good coverage once we move on from the anniversary of Diana's death.
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  #1234  
Old 09-04-2017, 03:49 AM
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That is just what I would like to know. One thing I do know about Camilla is that she loves animals and has taken rescue dogs into her own home and raised....anyone that loves dogs or any animal and brings them home show to me that there is gold in that heart....for that I am a fan of hers. The past is just that......The Past, done and over with!

One thing I would like to know and it really isn't any of my business, are the dogs allowed in the bedroom? Mine rules my bedroom...he bites if yr not accepted in our home.....

So I want to learn more about what she does and whom she supports in charities. I do know that she has a wonderful marriage and that says a lot in today's society.
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  #1235  
Old 09-04-2017, 04:25 AM
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One thing I do truly admire about Camilla is that she's the kind of person that is comfortable in her own skin enough to just be herself. I can very much understand why once she is a friend that she is a friend that can be counted on to be a steadfast friend and a keeper of confidences. Everyone that has had occasion to meet her see a warm, down to earth and witty person that truly seems to enjoy being where she is.

As M. Payton mentions, she is an advocate for animals and I remember well when she visited a rescue shelter and went home with Bluebell. Even more, for me, I respect her for her work in literacy and encouraging children to explore the wonderful world of books. As a dedicated armchair traveler myself, it warms my heart to see Camilla promoting the love of reading.

Camilla is actually the kind of person that puts the capital C in consort. She knows her role in the royal family and sometimes I see a lot of the Queen Mother and Philip in Camilla. She knows and understands Charles, his needs, his idiosyncrasies, his passions and his way of doing things and with that knowing, Charles has someone who does truly love him for who he is. Like a pair of comfortable old shoes, this is a couple that don't need to be in each other's back pockets constantly and are able to be individuals. He can have the peace and solitude of nature around him as he quietly sits and paints while she has a rip roaring time with her grandchildren creating an ungodly mess in the kitchen making cookies.

It doesn't happen often but when a marriage encourages individuality with loving support, it brings out the best in each partner and that is what I believe that Charles and Camilla have. Being such a private couple, we rarely get a glimpse into their private lives and that's the way it should be. Unfortunately, without the proverbial fly on the wall, what the general public still sees and forms opinions on is what was long ago. I may be the odd person in the bunch but I do think that without Camilla's support, understanding, comfort and compassion, Charles' experiences in life would have had a more detrimental effect on him. To see him now as a happy, smiling, more comfortable man in his own skin is attesting to the love of a good woman besides him.
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  #1236  
Old 09-04-2017, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing I do truly admire about Camilla is that she's the kind of person that is comfortable in her own skin enough to just be herself. I can very much understand why once she is a friend that she is a friend that can be counted on to be a steadfast friend and a keeper of confidences. Everyone that has had occasion to meet her see a warm, down to earth and witty person that truly seems to enjoy being where she is.

As M. Payton mentions, she is an advocate for animals and I remember well when she visited a rescue shelter and went home with Bluebell. Even more, for me, I respect her for her work in literacy and encouraging children to explore the wonderful world of books. As a dedicated armchair traveler myself, it warms my heart to see Camilla promoting the love of reading.

Camilla is actually the kind of person that puts the capital C in consort. She knows her role in the royal family and sometimes I see a lot of the Queen Mother and Philip in Camilla. She knows and understands Charles, his needs, his idiosyncrasies, his passions and his way of doing things and with that knowing, Charles has someone who does truly love him for who he is. Like a pair of comfortable old shoes, this is a couple that don't need to be in each other's back pockets constantly and are able to be individuals. He can have the peace and solitude of nature around him as he quietly sits and paints while she has a rip roaring time with her grandchildren creating an ungodly mess in the kitchen making cookies.

It doesn't happen often but when a marriage encourages individuality with loving support, it brings out the best in each partner and that is what I believe that Charles and Camilla have. Being such a private couple, we rarely get a glimpse into their private lives and that's the way it should be. Unfortunately, without the proverbial fly on the wall, what the general public still sees and forms opinions on is what was long ago. I may be the odd person in the bunch but I do think that without Camilla's support, understanding, comfort and compassion, Charles' experiences in life would have had a more detrimental effect on him. To see him now as a happy, smiling, more comfortable man in his own skin is attesting to the love of a good woman besides him.
Amen
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  #1237  
Old 09-05-2017, 06:27 AM
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A number of posts debating the ever-circular Charles-Diana-Camilla triangle have been removed. Unless you are specifically linking, to the moderating teams' satisfaction, Diana to the 'Camilla and the Public' topic, Diana is off-topic and further posts discussing her will be deleted.
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  #1238  
Old 10-02-2017, 08:50 AM
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I have to disagree with this. Not because I think you are wrong but because I see things perhaps from a different perspective as it relates to my own experiences in life.

When seeing Camilla now that I've come to get to *know* her more by actually following her here on TRF and searching for more information outside of the tabloid headlines that were basically all that formed my opinions on Camilla back during the 80s and 90s, I've come to see a Camilla that perhaps a lot of people don't see.

When things go wrong in life and there's no finding a solution or finding any sense of peace and serenity, especially as in this case with Charles' marriage, it can be quite overwhelming and distressful and it feels like there is no where to turn. The greatest blessing during these times is a best friend. One that believes in you, one that supports you no matter what and one that is always there for you when you need them. A true port in storm that helps you keep your feet on the ground and anchored in reality and gives you the courage to forge ahead. I believe it was because Camilla was this kind of support system for Charles when the marriage had gotten to the point where there was no hope of it ever working out, that Charles was able to maintain and keep going ahead with his life. I think it was Camilla that made it much easier to maintain keeping a public facade on the "irrevocably broken" marriage as long as it did until there was no other option than to divorce.

I know this by experience. I had such a best friend when my first marriage was beyond repair. That's all it was too. Platonic best friends. When I needed support and encouragement or anything at all, it was there for me. It did happen that I lost contact with my best friend for years after the divorce was final but upon meeting again, that friendship was still as strong as ever and this October we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage. This is why I do believe that Camilla is perhaps the best thing that's ever happened to Charles. It wasn't just an affair. It wasn't just a fling but it was years of building a strong, trusting and intimate relationship as friends outside of a romantic involvement that has made their marriage one that is truly a happy union between two people that sincerely love each other.

I've come to see the strength and resolve in Camilla that tells me that no matter what the public thinks, no matter what title she is "known" by or whether or not she sits in Westminster Abbey being crowned along side her Charles, her top priority now as it has been for a long while is to be the best friend she has always been to Charles and she will support him in any way that she humanly can. She's a person that can gladly put her husband first and foremost in her life simply because she loves him.
I prefer to focus on what Camilla's doing now. Trying to excuse her presence in a marriage from an emotional-friend standpoint still means she was an obstacle for the marriage. Her presence as a best friend helped to doom the marriage and led to the physical affair. Trying to "laud" her for that is weird. That's why the marriage was doomed, lol. Excusing or lauding her for that makes people dig deeper in their dislike for her. If Charles hadn't been married - yes - what she did would have been admirable. Since he was, it isn't. Sorry.

That's why now I like to focus more on what I see Camilla doing today. Camilla seems to have settled into her role nicely and she's kinda killing it. She's really doing the most to make sure she's a good working royal and a good princess. I think she is now a respected royal - even if she will honestly never be liked. I can't stand her but I respect her - or at least her position. She's done good work, which for me is a far better defense of who she is now.

For that reason (and that reason alone because I still hate what she did to Charles' marriage on a visceral level) she should be Queen when Charles becomes King.

I think her relationship with the public will only continue to improve based on her current actions IF folks stop trying to defend the indefensible. That just makes it worse and triggers folks becoming entrenched.
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  #1239  
Old 10-02-2017, 08:55 AM
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If Camilla and Charles were more concerned about their happiness than what the public thinks why would they approve of Penny Junor's biography? It is described as a 'definitive account' .. 'star-crossed love story of the past 50 years', according to Harper Collins.
I agree with this.

It's also why before Charles married Camilla they put out so much press that she "would be Princess Consort" when he became King. It was a bait and switch to get the public to not be so against him marrying her - and then they began a careful plan to elevate Camilla after that through good works.

It's kinda working - but it is still definitely a bait and switch.
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  #1240  
Old 10-02-2017, 09:13 AM
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I prefer to focus on what Camilla's doing now. Trying to excuse her presence in a marriage from an emotional-friend standpoint still means she was an obstacle for the marriage. Her presence as a best friend helped to doom the marriage and led to the physical affair. Trying to "laud" her for that is weird. That's why the marriage was doomed, lol. Excusing or lauding her for that makes people dig deeper in their dislike for her. If Charles hadn't been married - yes - what she did would have been admirable. Since he was, it isn't. Sorry.
Think about it this way. If Charles' marriage had been a happy and healthy one and secure, no one and their wild horses would have affected it. People usually don't go looking for a repairman until the appliance has broken down.

I agree with you that the Camilla we see today is a strong consort for Charles and has served the "Firm" admirably over the years. It is her role and her support of Charles in the here and now that is most important. People are genuinely warming up to her and those that have met her find her to be a warm hearted, down to earth person with a good outlook on life.
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