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  #1161  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:42 AM
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The marriage would still be morganatic as far as common law goes with Camilla's title being lesser than her husband's
Which is another reason why this is not possible.. There is NO such thing as morganatic unions in UK law... This was one of the problems in 1936. Had Mrs Simpson married Edward VIII whilst he was King, she would have been Queen, there was simply no provision in law for her to be anything else..
And this remains true today.
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  #1162  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:42 AM
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That's how I understood it as well, in any of the biographies I've read. They deliberately denied Wallis the titles...and of course that didn't sit so well with David.


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  #1163  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Which is another reason why this is not possible.. There is NO such thing as morganatic unions in UK law... This was one of the problems in 1936. Had Mrs Simpson married Edward VIII whilst he was King, she would have been Queen, there was simply no provision in law for her to be anything else..
And this remains true today.
Does anyone here actually think she won't be Queen? Now as to what she is called that can be a different matter...but legally yes Queen.


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  #1164  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:49 AM
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I truly believe that when the time does come, Camilla will be HM, The Queen.

There was another option suggested but don't know too much about it. As the monarch is automatically the Duke of Lancaster which supplies the monarch with a personal income, it may be possible then for Camilla to be known as the Duchess of Lancaster.

The bottom line is that if something isn't broken, don't fix it.
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  #1165  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:53 AM
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It really BAFFLES me how some Women here [obv i'm assuming their gender], are fine with the idea that someone of their sex should be specifically singled out for demotion/public punishment SOLELY for her [50% part] in a [once adulterous] relationship.
Do they perhaps ostracise Women they know 'in real life' that fit into that category ?
Do they know ANY woman in a second marriage who is not treated as the equal of their Husband ?
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  #1166  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:54 AM
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Wouldn't she automatically be the Duchess of Lancaster anyway? Or would that have to be officially done?


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  #1167  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:02 PM
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That's what I'm not sure about. We don't hear of HM being called the Duke of Lancaster all that much but that's the actual title QEII holds. Not Duchess of Lancaster but Duke of Lancaster. It may be that there's only a Duke.

Actually, with all the success that Camilla has had as far as supporting her husband, doing so well on her solo endeavors and with the honors that the Queen has bestowed on her for personal service and the new bit of information I didn't know before of Camilla being the first princess to marry into the BRF that has been named to the Privy Council, to be anything lesser than Queen when the time comes would be a huge slap in the face with no legitimate reasoning behind it

If up until the time of the Wales' divorce, it was believed that Charles' wife would still be crowned as Queen regardless of the blatant attacks on the BRF, her own adulteries and all the other mishaps she got herself into, it just doesn't quite cut it with me that the same conditions wouldn't apply to Camilla.
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  #1168  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:05 PM
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Its not a question of what title she will have, she will be Queen unless Charles or Parliament actively sign a new law/act/LP denying it to her. Her popularity has turned around enough that I don't think even Parliament would feel comfortable doing that.

As for what title she will be known, well thats a different matter. I suspect they will say she can be known by either Queen or Princess Consort and slowly use Queen officially.
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  #1169  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:07 PM
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I think really as far as Camilla is concerned with all of this, she'd be just as happy if they all decided that they'll be known as Fred and Gladys and nothing else. Camilla never comes across to me as the type of a person that needs her ego stroked.
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  #1170  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:17 PM
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Camilla never comes across to me as the type of a person that needs her ego stroked.
I'm sure that's correct.. Charles tho' IS likely to have a problem with the demotion of his wife, into something, somehow 'lesser'..
WHO would want that for their beloved ?
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  #1171  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:27 PM
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Small article in dutch mag Prive "Camilla is now getting recognition"
Camilla krijgt nu wel erkenning|Prive| Telegraaf.nl

google translated
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  #1172  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Its not a question of what title she will have, she will be Queen unless Charles or Parliament actively sign a new law/act/LP denying it to her. Her popularity has turned around enough that I don't think even Parliament would feel comfortable doing that.



As for what title she will be known, well thats a different matter. I suspect they will say she can be known by either Queen or Princess Consort and slowly use Queen officially.


Well you just can't use Princess Consort because it doesn't exist. The King has to create it
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  #1173  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:21 PM
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Is this thread about Camilla's future titles/styles?

Back to the Camilla and the public part: (at least for me)

I wonder if some of the Diana fans are living on the same planet like the rest of us....
Comparing the popularity of a beloved, iconic Head of State who is the reason the UK still is a monarchy with a former wife of the heir who damaget it as alomost now other in modern times.

So here I go aagain: (longer than usual)

Camilla: Are the commentators who now call her popular (even loved) right? No, they are not.

She is still unliked by many, but everyone who meets her, yes, they like her.

Will she be popular? No.

Will she be beloved? No.

Will she be respected by a majority in the UK? Not sure, but I think she will be accepted.

Does she need to be all those thing stated above to be a good consort? No, she don't.

Philip: Is philip a good consort? Yes.

Do I or the UK majority like Philip? No.

Is he popular, beloved? No.

Is he respected by a majority?

When he was young? Yes. In the 80s/90s and 2000s? No. Now? Maybe, but thats becaause he is old.

I know that this thread is for Camilla, but since the popularity of other royals has been discussed her (and I thinks it fits here), then let's go through the whole bunch of them:

Charles: Accepted, but still controversial.

Around 70% approval ratings and 60% thinks he's going to be a good king? Not bad for a man who has received so much criticism. And he is actually wery good at conecting with people - have you seen him on a walkabouts.

Is he going to be popular/beloved and admirred like his mother? No way, but I think/hope that he vill be respected.

William: 2010-2013 - Very popular, more than Diana and even more than what Harry is now - why? Because he wasn't criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but popular/liked with approval ratings at 75 to 80%.

When he is monarch: Likely to be quite popular, but not beloved as HM.

Kate: 2010-2013 - Very popular - why? Because she was almost not criticized by the press.

Now - Criticized, but still popular/liked by a UK majority.

Harry: Very popular (but not beloved) - why? Charismatic and good with people, but mostly because he has hardly been criticized in recent years.

Diana: Very popular in the 80's and right after the separation in 1992, but not beloved (Camilla had also been that if she had been the one to marry him at that time.)

Before she died? Controversial.

Now? Adored by her fans, not liked by people who is the opposite of her fans and the others (the majority) don't care.

The Queen Mother: Very popular and admirrred for the things she did during the war and her commitment to duty, but I wont call her beloved (I'm personally not a big fan of her)

Now? People know who she was, but (as with Diana) the majority don't care much about her. The same thing that happens to everyone who have been dead for awhile (with exception of historical persons as heads of states or heads of governments).

HM, The Queen: She is (as commentators/experts says) the most beloved, popular, iconic, famous and most successful head of state (many would say person) in the world.

Almost everyone I know in the UK likes her and almost all the comments on The Royal Family, the British Monarchist League and the British Monarchist Society & Foundation facebook pages are positive.

Even many of the ignorant and evil minded thugs in the DF comment section (the best rated comments) and on twitter likes her.

Her Ipsos MORI approval ratings were above 70% from 1992 to 2000 (with the exception of 66% in 1998, but above 70% after Dianas death in 1997), over 80% from 2002 to 2016 (sometimes 90%) just 5% dissatisfied in 2016, a YouGov approval rating in 2012 showed 86%.

And let's go through the YouGov most admired person in the UK poll:

2014 - The 30 most admired persons in the UK:
1: The Queen with 18,74%
9: William with 2,6%
19: Kate with 0,80%
Harry was not even included in the poll.

2015 - The 15 most admired Women in the UK:
1: The Queen with 17%
5: Kate with 5,2%

2015 - The 15 most admired Men in the UK:
5: William with 6,5%
8: Harry with 5,9%

2016 - The 30 most admired Women in the UK:
1: The Queen with 19,5%
7: Kate with 3,6%

2016 - The 30 most admired Men in the UK:
4: Harry with 6,4%
6: William with 5,6%

The Queen was also polled the most admirred woman in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Germany in the 2016 poll.

The unserious/stupid favourite royal polls are meaningless, but let us go through them:

The Queen came first (over both the Queen Mother and Diana) in almost all of the few polls that were made in the 80/90s.

From 2002 to 2010, the Queen came first in almost all of the few polls that were made.

The Queen has (since 2011) shared the first place with William, Kate and Harry. But as you see in polls when you ask, who is the most popular/admired person in the UK, then she beats all of them.

8 points about the Queen:

1. QEII is the reigning monarch of 16 countries - including the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. She is head of the Commonwealth and is in that capacity figurehead for 2 billion people. She has reigned for 65 years. This makes her the world's most Iconic, famous and well-known head of state (many will say person).

2. She traveled around the UK until she was 86. She used to be driven along the crowds in the Queenmobile (open car) from 1952 to 2012 (did it in 2016 on the occasion of her 90th birthday). Went on several walkabout (walked through the crowds with her smile) from 1970 to 2013. (did it in 2016 on the occasion of 90th birthday). She traveled around the Commonwealth/world from 1952 to 2011 (Italy, France Germany and Malta in 2014/2015). She is known for her kindness and there are so many touching stories about her. She comforts her employees, traumatized aid workers etc.

3. Our beloved, iconic, remarkable Elizabeth II is the UK and the Commonwealth and she is as Obama said (last year) a jewel to the world.

4. She is an international icon and the embodiment of royalty. She has dedicated her life to the UK and the Commonwealth, and have spent the last 63 years building relations and friendship between nations as no other. She's was known as the world's top diplomat until at least 2011 (when she almost stopped traveling) She was also with her parents, sister and Winston Churchill a symbol of peace during World War II.

5. She is as several of the so-called experts said on British/American/Canadian television during her 90th birthday celebrations and Jubilee celebrations in 2012 a symbol of continuity and goodness in the world. And as Baroness Scotland said during an interview: She is kind, caring, warm, forgiving and concerned with poor people, young people and people who are struggling. Monarchs, Presidents, former Prime Ministers, former employees and family member have said the same and the Queen herself has mentioned many of these topics several times in her speeches over the years.

6. She is simply THE QUEEN and world leders around the world admirer her, and she make me proud to be half-British. We should be proud to live in this admirable lady's reign.

7. There will be no one like her again, and I agree with Tony Parsons that she will be the last monarch who will be a truly unifying force in our nation, but the monarchy will continue to endure in to future with Charles, William and George (if they don't does stupid things).

8. I'm not a person who brags unconditionally of people, but when it comes to this lady, then I don't keep anything back.

And as David Walliams said it, she is the heart and soul of UK (and as others have said) to the rest of the world too.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I simply can't imagine a world without Elizabeth II, our beloved history-making monarch with her record breaking reign.

And I agree with what some commentators said in 2012/2016, she truly is Elizabeth the Great and has defined the Second Elizabethan Age.
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  #1174  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:56 PM
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The fact as time goes on fewer and fewer people see a reason to dislike Camilla for her involvement with Charles.

People of my generation (20-30year olds) don't remember Diana and they see a women in her 70s who does public duties from time to time.

As Royal Norway says, will she be beloved and popular? No necessarily. But equally I don't think she'll be vilified or disliked.

IMO most people in the UK are by default neutral about members of the RF so its how the media present them thats forms opinion. Look at how Anne went from young beautiful daughter of the sovereign to cranky cold royal and now is widely credited by the media as being 'hardworking and respected' . Over the past 60 odd years has the British public massively changed their position and opinion about her? No. Most people in the UK don't particularly care about the RF and don't think about them apart from when asked or confronted by them (jubilee's, weddings etc) so they follow the opinion of the newspapers and media.Camilla's coverage in the media has got better and better as its become less acceptable to simply go on about her involvement in the War of the Wales'.
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  #1175  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The fact as time goes on fewer and fewer people see a reason to dislike Camilla for her involvement with Charles.

People of my generation (20-30year olds) don't remember Diana and they see a women in her 70s who does public duties from time to time.

As Royal Norway says, will she be beloved and popular? No necessarily. But equally I don't think she'll be vilified or disliked.

IMO most people in the UK are by default neutral about members of the RF so its how the media present them thats forms opinion. Look at how Anne went from young beautiful daughter of the sovereign to cranky cold royal and now is widely credited by the media as being 'hardworking and respected' . Over the past 60 odd years has the British public massively changed their position and opinion about her? No. Most people in the UK don't particularly care about the RF and don't think about them apart from when asked or confronted by them (jubilee's, weddings etc) so they follow the opinion of the newspapers and media.Camilla's coverage in the media has got better and better as its become less acceptable to simply go on about her involvement in the War of the Wales'.
Agree with this two points and the rest of your post.
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  #1176  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Nothing so formal is required.. Just 'When my Step-Mother is Queen' will do, dropped into a conversation overheard by journalists...
Something like that is what I meant.
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  #1177  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I'm sure that's correct.. Charles tho' IS likely to have a problem with the demotion of his wife, into something, somehow 'lesser'..
WHO would want that for their beloved ?
I quite agree. I believe Charles will see to it that Camilla is titled as a queen.

I saw a brief snippet of an interview with her on TV last year. She's very personable and engaging.
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  #1178  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:20 PM
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Hm...

...could settle the title issue with a one line statement. "When I am no longer your Queen, I would wish that my beloved daughter-in-law would be known as Queen Consort." If she expressed that- assuming that Charles and his sons agreed- the matter would be settled. Surely no one would argue with HM.
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  #1179  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:34 PM
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That is never ever going to happen! And can you imagine the headlines: (especially if the polls shows otherwise) The people don't agree with the Queen etc.
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  #1180  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:20 PM
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We "never" thought that the Waleses would divorce either. I agree with you though, that it's highly unlikely that HM would ever make any sort of statement about Camilla's future status. What title Camilla will use is a matter between her, the Prince of Wales, and the government. Legally, she will be Queen Camilla. We'll know what the title will be when the time comes. If she has the title of Queen, it means that she'll have to go on all the foreign tours and be much more active generally than she is now. Her stamina isn't what the Prince of Wales' is, and she seems to crave time at her own house. That's why I think she'll want to be known by a lesser title.
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