British State visit to France [postponed] & Germany, 26-31 March 2023


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I have often wondered why the british monarch does not use their own ”house order” the Royal Victorian Order, to decorate female consorts of Foreign Heads of State…

As the Garter is given to most foreign monarch’s and the Bath is given to foreign presidents (and a few monarchs) the Victorian Order would have seemed logic for female consorts

The late Prince Consort of Denmark and all 3 of the Dutch Prince Consort’s had at least 1 british order so a difference is clearly made for one reason or another between male spouses and female spouses…

One would have hoped that Charles would have ended that and made the exchange of Orders 100 % reciprocal but it doesn’t seems like that…
 
Alison H said:
The Margrave and Margravine of Baden, and Prince Philipp of Hohenlohe-Langenburg, were invited.
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That was really nice gesture :flowers:

The Gala Dinner at Bellevue Palace in Berlin
 
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hereditarytitles said:
Thanks for posting the speech. I saw it live on TV and liked it very much. Charles also has a sense of humour.
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My German is very basic and embarrassingly awful. Did the King repeat himself? What I mean is, is what he said in English a translation of what he said in German or was it one speech with unique passages in each language?
 
VictoriaB said:
My German is very basic and embarrassingly awful. Did the King repeat himself? What I mean is, is what he said in English a translation of what he said in German or was it one speech with unique passages in each language?
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The passage in German was different from the rest of his speech. I am trying a translation:
"I hardly know how to thank you for your great hospitality. It is wonderful to be here this evening together with so many people and I am glad you didn't leave me by myself with a "Dinner For One" (laughter in the audience).
My wife and I are deeply moved how heartfelt our reception has been in Germany. It has always been like this with former visits to this special country.
I noticed that I actually have been in Germany more than 40 times. That shows how important our relations are, but I am afraid it also shows how long I have been around! (laughter again)
I have very kind memories of every visit to this country."

Then he continues in English
 
When is the visit to the St Nikolai Memorial in Hamburg?
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
We have to see the exact wording of the Decree in which Queen Camilla was given her German Order, the highest one or -to start with- a lower one.
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Her star had eight points, which I believe is reserved only for the highest grade.
 
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Mbruno said:
It is just "realpolitik". The President of the United States is not treated in the same way as presidents of smaller republics. Likewise, the British monarch does not get the same treatment as monarchs of smaller kingdoms.


EDIT: Apparently the King delivered his speech in English and German.
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Well, in the older days every state guest was treated with the same sort of protocol and grandeur - there were no differences made, and that´s the way it should be! Everything else is unfair, not very polite and a snub to the visiting nation! But your explanation has one inconsistense, too. Even The King´s respected mother, Elizabeth II, was not given a full white tie state banquet for her last two state visits in 2004 and 2015..!
Besides that, even if the president of the United State would pay a state visit to Germany, he would not be granted with one! So, the seize or "importance" of a country obviously is also not the reason!
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Perhaps because it was his first State Visit? And that for various reasons it's important for both countries to be on their best, most gracious behaviour as a show of strength and solidarity? British and German relations are complex and with the BRF even more so, which might mean full Pomp and Circumstance for Charles's first visit.

I'm glad some of his German cousins were invited which was a great touch, although Charles didn't refer to his father's family and talked in terms of his mother, which is understandable since he is trying to establish that "professional" connection to her.
 
Heavs said:
Perhaps because it was his first State Visit? And that for various reasons it's important for both countries to be on their best, most gracious behaviour as a show of strength and solidarity? British and German relations are complex and with the BRF even more so, which might mean full Pomp and Circumstance for Charles's first visit.

I'm glad some of his German cousins were invited which was a great touch, although Charles didn't refer to his father's family and talked in terms of his mother, which is understandable since he is trying to establish that "professional" connection to her.
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Charles is not only the king of the UK but one of the most prominent and early supporter of sustainability, which is the Topic at the moment in the Federal Republic. That makes him a "political" guest as well as a ceremonial one. It's their chance to show him their full respect, showing the respect he has earned as PoW and the support he has in the country. He mother prefered to be a ceremonial queen and traveled as such. He has shown in his speech yesterday evening that he is an eco-farmer as well and that's someone who is very important now to Germany.
 
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I missed the last paragraph of Charles speech in German, that's because he switched from german to english and vice versa.

Here is the translation:

Mr President, Germany and the United Kingdom have a great interest in each other's future. I firmly believe that our relationship will become even stronger as we work together towards a more sustainable future of prosperity and security. May the ash tree I planted this afternoon in your beautiful garden be a small symbol of the growth and blossoming of our partnership.

I hope with all my heart that my wife and I will live long enough so that we can come back to this wonderful city and see how our tree has grown, and so that we can continue to contribute our part to this precious friendship between our two countries. Please raise your glass with me: to you, Mr President, and to Mrs Büdenbender. And to a friendship that is not only warm, but also — in the truest sense of the word — sustainable. Cheers!
 
Erin9 said:
I’m impressed. I didn’t know he spoke German. Nice gesture. I like his sense of humor.
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A few years ago the German television showed snippets of the (then) Prince of Wales visiting his German family and how he could conversate with them. The snippet showed him with Philipp Fürst zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg and he told them how warm and close his contacts were with Vetter (full cousin) Kraft, the father of Prinz Phillip. All in German.

When he reads a speech, his German is good. When he has to speak spontaneously, his German will have some faults but everyone will understand what he says.

It will be the same in French (an official language in Canada). When he reads a speech, his French is good. When he has to speak spontaneously, his French will have some faults but everyone will understand what he says.
 
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Has the Royal visit been well received in Germany?
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Usually the exchange of Orders is reciprocal. The British monarch has the habit not to decorate female spouses of heads-of-state. No idea if the partner of the Bundespräsident has received an Order.

That means that the host will not return the favour to the partner of the visiting head-of-state either or "go lower". The King received the Großkreuz in besonderer Ausführung des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (the special version of the Grand Cross in the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany). Queen Camilla maybe received a little step lower: the Große Verdienstkreuz mit Stern des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (the grand Cross of Merit with star in the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany).

To compare with other Queens, I have looked up on the website of the Dutch Royal House and Queen Máxima has two German Orders so to see:

As Princess Máxima she received the Großkreuz des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
As Queen Máxima she received the Großkreuz in besonderer Ausführung des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

We have to see the exact wording of the Decree in which Queen Camilla was given her German Order, the highest one or -to start with- a lower one. Difference is also that the most other Kings do decorate female partners of heads-of-state, so it wil be "anwered" by the recipient.
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Well, Camilla WAS given the german order of merit, as I said before, and she wore it at the banquet and a miniture of it on her lapel the day after for daytime events, but she didn´t wear the sash, which I don´t understand and is usually only done at black tie state banquets. The highest degrees is "Special Class" which goes always along with the grand cross and the sash. She was given on 29 March 2023 Grand Cross Special Class of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Camilla,_Queen_Consort#Foreign_honours

 
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An Ard Ri said:
Has the Royal visit been well received in Germany?
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Absolutely! All our papers are full of reports and pictures, much covering on TV and all of it very positive!
There were standing ovations for him after his speech at the Bundestag yesterday.
 
wartenberg7 said:
Well, Camilla WAS given the german order of merit, as I said before, and she wore it at the banquet and a miniture of it on her lapel the day after for daytime events, but she didn´t wear the sash, which I don´t understand and is usually only done at black tie state banquets. The highest degrees is "Special Class" which goes always along with the grand cross and the sash. She was given on 29 March 2023 Grand Cross Special Class of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Camilla,_Queen_Consort#Foreign_honours
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Queen Camilla was not the only one to appear with just the breast star. I have seen more events in which the lady chose to wear the breast star without cordon (or even leave the grand decorations in the cassette and go for the miniature). Here an example of just a (visible) star: https://media.gettyimages.com/id/15...=sNPGQVAaHzXDtT4tqvVcBhQTePrshIhnCRja9apduvI=

In an etiquette page I found this:

"The principles that apply to sashes worn by gentlemen generally apply to ladies. With an evening gown, the sash is worn over the gown and often is affixed to the gown by a brooch at the shoulder or on the back.

Sometimes the specific course of the sash is altered according to the gown for aesthetic purposes. Usually a lady's sash is more narrow than that of a gentleman, though the same full-width version may also correctly be used.

For aesthetic purposes one star may be pinned to the dress as usual, omitting the sash."
 
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hereditarytitles said:
Absolutely! All our papers are full of reports and pictures, much covering on TV and all of it very positive!
There were standing ovations for him after his speech at the Bundestag yesterday.
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I'm so pleased to hear that!
 
Alison H said:
I'm so pleased to hear that!
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I haven't watched todays schedule of King Charles, but just as a side note:

My son is a history student, mainly studying German and Eastern European history. My family knows about me being an anglophile for many years, convincing them all to go on holiday to Great Britain many times (Most Germans go to Spain and Italy during the summer). And they didn't really understand why I am writing in the royal forum.

My son came today to tell me that he watched Charles speech at the Bundestag and he was completely overwhelmed of his speech , all the historical aspects that he spoke about, that he talked so much in German, the effort he put into that, so very impressing! No politician so far made such a positive and deep impression on many people here.
 
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