The Spencer Family and Ancestry (inc. Althorp Estate)

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Denville

How is being a constitutional monarch such a major job? the Monarch has no power and little influence... they don't "have their subjects lives in their hands" at all.....

Aged 92, Queen Elizabeth II has only two days completely off a year, Christmas day and Easter Sunday. If that's not a major job I don't know what is?
Even if a monarch has no formal power they still have to be in regular contact with the Government and Parliament and all other parts of society to keep themselves informed with what's going on in their country and the world. Most monarchs, The King of Sweden excluded, sign laws and approve new governments while, if I've understood it correctly from posts made here on the forums, The King of The Netherlands is even part of the government.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

I did read the replies.
I have a book that says the BRF is directly related to the Polignac side of royalty.
But, they didn’t give an actual chart.
The book is “Ancestry of The Royal Child”.
Direct descendants are in bold, and the Polignacs are listed in bold under the France section of the book.

If true, wouldn't that make HM close relatives of the Princely Family of Monaco...who are Grimaldi-Polignacs in direct line?

[MaiaMia_53]

Interestingly, DoS Meghan has a connection to the Spencer and Bowes-Lyon family lines via her paternal ancestry. In addition, the Brudenell family is related to the Spencer and Seymour family lines. It was known when Harry was dating his former girlfriend, lingerie model and actress, Florence Brudenell-Bruce, that she's his cousin 8 times removed. So, as well, DoS Meghan and Harry's former girlfriend, Florence, are also related via Spencer-Seymour ancestry with the common ancestral line tracing all the way back to King Edward III.

Here's a link to the chart showing Harry's & Meghan's shared Spencer-Seymour & Bowes-Lyon ancestry. Florence Brudenell-Bruce's ancestor, George, 3rd Earl of Cardigan is listed on the chart in one of the Wentworth-Seymour lines:
https://www.americanancestors.org/Ro...an-Markle.aspx
Click on the pdf download to access the chart

DoS Meghan and Florence Brudenell-Bruce (now married to wealthy financier Henry St. George), also bear a bit of facial resemblance:
https://vg-images.condecdn.net/image...272_master.jpg
https://vg-images.condecdn.net/image...ul11_getty.jpg

[Denville]

Originally Posted by JR76

Aged 92, Queen Elizabeth II has only two days completely off a year, Christmas day and Easter Sunday. If that's not a major job I don't know what is?
Even if a monarch has no formal power they still have to be in regular contact with the Government and Parliament and all other parts of society to keep themselves informed with what's going on in their country and the world. Most monarchs, The King of Sweden excluded, sign laws and approve new governments while, if I've understood it correctly from posts made here on the forums, The King of The Netherlands is even part of the government.

Its still not a job where the "fate fo millions" is in their hands.. they are just a small part of the government who have the responsibility for the "millions". THey do what the GOvt tell them which is mianly ceremonial duties.
The queen keeps in touch with what's going on, but she has plenty of time off....

[Kataryn]

Originally Posted by Denville

The queen keeps in touch with what's going on, but she has plenty of time off....

And I am thankful that it is this way! She is an old lady and for her "service to the country" is not something she takes easy. So I am glad that she takes the time to do the things that she likes to do.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

And I am thankful that it is this way! She is an old lady and for her "service to the country" is not something she takes easy. So I am glad that she takes the time to do the things that she likes to do.

Yes but she's not someone who has the "fate of millions in her hands" or who has to make big decisions on behalf of her people....

[Lee-Z]

Not really "Spencer ancestry" those last posts

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

This is all that the book says (with direct descendants listed in bold font):
France section (page 71):
“HRH’s (William, DoCambridge) forebears include the great historian Geoffroy de Villehardouin. HRH’s most recent French ancestress was Hyacinthe Gabrielle Roland, Marchioness Wellesley. But indeed, the names of HRH’s earlier (direct) French ancestors read like a roll call of French chivalry: (the families of) Montmorentcy, Guise, La Rochefoucauld + Rouchechouart, Rohan, Polignac, Bauffremont, and La Tour d’Auvergne.

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

If true, wouldn't that make HM close relatives of the Princely Family of Monaco...who are Grimaldi-Polignacs in direct line?

I posted a verbatim excerpt from the book.
Direct descendants of Prince William are listed in bold font.
The only thing they didn’t do was list a full chart of William’s Polignac ancestry.
The chart only gives his Capetian, Valois, and Bourbon ancestry chart (all in one chart, with a reference to Table #7, which has Diana’s Stuart bloodline).

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Is Diana related to Champlain?
Champlain (I presume) is the man who was sent to Canada to (I guess) establish a settlement there in the 1600s.
One of the King Henry’s of France sent Champlain to Canada.

[Countessmeout]

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

Is Diana related to Champlain?
Champlain (I presume) is the man who was sent to Canada to (I guess) establish a settlement there in the 1600s.
One of the King Henry’s of France sent Champlain to Canada.

Champlain founded Quebec city, but no he was not sent there as a settler. He got into sailing through his uncle Francois Du Pont who was a fur trader. Samuel was a cartographer and navigator who intended to travel further then Jacques Cartier who came before him. It was King Henry IV who his Uncle and he later worked for.

Samuel Champlain had no descendents, he and his wife never had children. His closest family, besides his wife when he died, was a maternal cousin who contested his will. If Diana is related to that cousin or any other distant family, not certain as they were not historically documented.

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Interesting!
I know Diana and Camilla are related.
Is Diana related to any of Sarah or Camilla’s Canadian relatives, via one of Camilla or Sarah’s ancestors?

[eya]

A Victorian portrait at Althorp House of Charlotte, Countess Spencer, a great beauty who was known as "Spencer's Fairy Queen"!!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzyWIhVW...jpg&name=large


Sunset at Althorp House!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dzkl06GX...jpg&name=large

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

Interesting!
I know Diana and Camilla are related.
Is Diana related to any of Sarah or Camilla’s Canadian relatives, via one of Camilla or Sarah’s ancestors?

Yes Diana and Sarah were also related.


LaRae

[QueenElizabeth2Fan]

Originally Posted by Pranter

Yes Diana and Sarah were also related.


LaRae

I already knew that.
But, is Diana related to any Canadian ancestors through being related to Sarah?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by QueenElizabeth2Fan

Interesting!
I know Diana and Camilla are related.
Is Diana related to any of Sarah or Camilla’s Canadian relatives, via one of Camilla or Sarah’s ancestors?

They are related via the Dutch/British aristocratic family (Van) Keppel. Diana, Camilla and Sarah have Sophia Mary Countess Keppel née MacNab as shared Canadian ancestor. She is the daughter of Sir Allan Napier MacNab, Baronet, then Premier of the province of Canada.


Lady Diana Frances Spencer
=
Edward John Spencer, VIII Earl Spencer
x The Hon. Frances Ruth Burke Roche


Edward John Spencer, VIII Earl Spencer
=
Albert Edward John Spencer, VII Earl Spencer
x Lady Cynthia Ellinor Beatrix Hamilton


Lady Cynthia Ellinor Beatrix Hamilton
=
James Albert Edward Hamilton, III Duke of Abercorn
x Lady Rosalind Cecilia Caroline Bingham


James Albert Edward Hamilton, III Duke of Abercorn
=
James Hamilton, II Duke of Abercorn
x Lady Mary Anna Curzon-Howe


James Hamilton, II Duke of Abercorn
=
James Hamilton, I Duke of Abercorn
x Lady Louisa Jane Russell


Lady Louisa Jane Russell
=
John Russell, VI Duke of Bedford
x Lady Georgiana Gordon


John Russell, VI Duke of Bedford
=
Francis Russell, Marquess of Tavistock
x Lady Elizabeth Keppel


Lady Elizabeth Keppel
=
Willem Anne van Keppel, II Earl of Albemarle
x Lady Anne Lennox
=
George Keppel, III Earl of Albemarle


George Keppel, III Earl of Albemarle
x Anne Miller
= William Charles Keppel, IV Earl of Albemarle


William Charles Keppel, IV Earl of Albemarle
x The Hon. Elizabeth Southwell
=
George Thomas Keppel, VI Earl of Albemarle


George Thomas Keppel, VI Earl of Albemarle
x Susan Coutts Trotter
=
William Coutts Keppel, VII Earl of Albemarle


William Coutts Keppel, VII Earl of Albemarle
x Sophia Mary MacNab
=
The Hon. George Keppel


The Hon. George Keppel
x The Hon. Alicia Frederica Edmonstone
=
Sonia Rosemary Keppel


Sonia Rosemary Keppel
x Roland Calvert Cubitt, III Baron Ashcombe
=
The Hon. Rosalind Maud Cubitt


The Hon. Rosalind Maud Cubitt
x Bruce Middleton Hope Shand
= Camilla Rosemary Shand

[An Ard Ri]

The mausoleum of Edmond Roche, 1st Baron of Fermoy (1815 – 1874) has been rediscovered at a graveyard in Whitegate, Co. Cork.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...ed-260094.html

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/h...IGEmyk_jCtUNw0

[Future_king]

Diana Spencer has some royalty in her. Some of her famous ancestors are Charles II and James II of England. One other is Elizabeth Woodville through her other children not by Edward IV.
to James II
1. James II
2. Henrietta FitzJames
3. James Waldegrave
4. James Waldegrave II
5. Anne Horatia Waldegrave
6. Horace Seymour
7. Adelaide Seymour
8. Charles Robert Spencer the 6th earl
9. Albert Spencer the 7th earl
10. Edward Spencer the 8th earl
11. Diana Frances Spencer
To Charles II
1. Charles II
2. Henry Fitzroy
3. Charles FitzRoy
4. Isabella Fitzroy
5. Hugh Seymour
6. Horace Seymour
7. Adelaide Seymour
8. Charles Robert Spencer the 6th earl
9. Albert Spencer the 7th earl
10. Edward Spencer the 8th earl
11. Diana Frances Spencer
From Charles II (yes for the 2nd time)
1. Charles II
2. Mrs. Sarsfield
3. Charlotte Vesey
4. Anne Bingham
5. Charles, 1st earl of Lucan
6. Lavinia Bingham
7. Frederick Spencer
8. Charles Robert Spencer the 6th earl
9. Albert Spencer the 7th earl
10. Edward Spencer the 8th earl
11. Diana Frances Spencer
there is another way through Charles Lennox, 1st Duke of Richmond
1. Charles II
2. Charles Lennox
3. Charles Lennox II
4. George Lennox
5. Charles III Lennox
6. Charles IV Lennox
7. Cecilia Gordon-Lennox
8. Rosalind Bingham
9. Cynthia Hamilton
10. John Spencer
11. Diana Spencer
The interesting fact is that they all go down to the eleventh generation!

Also, she is descended from the medieval Despenser family through her ancestor Isabella FitzRoy's maternal great-great-grandfather. (He was a Marquess of the Somerset family)

[Gawin]

Thanks for posting this but Mary Sarsfield wasn't the daughter of Charles II. He acknowledged her mother Lucy Walter's first child James (later Duke of Monmouth) as his but not Mary who was probably fathered by Lord Taaffe or Henry Bennet (later Earl of Arlington).

[Countessmeout]

The Spencers have a lot of royal blood no doubt.


Mary Crofts father is in doubt, but what isn't in doubt, it wasn't Charles II. He had left for Scotland a year before. Its most likely Theobald Taafte who was known as Lucy's lover at the time. There is also a chance it was the Earl of Arlington. But Diana's descent from Charles II is not through her.

The claim that Diana's family is descended from the Dispensers had been debunked by numerous historians.

[Gawin]

Originally Posted by Countessmeout

The Spencers have a lot of royal blood no doubt.


Mary Crofts father is in doubt, but what isn't in doubt, it wasn't Charles II. He had left for Scotland a year before. Its most likely Theobald Taafte who was known as Lucy's lover at the time. There is also a chance it was the Earl of Arlington. But Diana's descent from Charles II is not through her.

The claim that Diana's family is descended from the Dispensers had been debunked by numerous historians.

Diana was a descendant of the Despensers through Isabella FitzRoy's maternal great-great-grandfather, as the original poster stated. The claim that the Spencers descend in the male line from the Despensers was debunked.