The Panorama Interview: November 20, 1995

[Denville]

But was it a lie? William was (is!) hurt. He has every right in the world to be angry but Bashir didn't force her to make those statements and we can't brush them off as paranoid mistruths just because it made the family uncomfortable.

All that said I am glad it is out and I am glad her sons got to speak their mind about it. It was long overdue.

Was what a lie? I dont understand......

 

[Denville]

This, I can agree with. At the end of the day, Diana was an adult and she chose to do the interview. As lied to and manipulated as she was - and I believe she was particularly vulnerable -it wasn't out of character for her. She contributed to Morton's book without any fake documents well before she sat for the interview.


Every action has its concequences, but I fail to see how for the loss of a shoe this kingdom was lost in this particular case, aka how the interview led to Diana's death.

It created more and more of a rift between Diana and the RF.. She believed that the RF and the Secret services were spying on her, she didn't trust her staff, nor the police who guarded her... nor her in laws. That led her to rely on the security provided by other people, and to her being "OUT" of the RF. Had she been less suspicious of the RPOs, and her husband's family, she would have had better security that night in Paris, adn would hopefuly not have ended up in a car driven by a drunken driver.

 

[Moran]

It created more and more of a rift between Diana and the RF.. She believed that the RF and the Secret services were spying on her, she didn't trust her staff, nor the police who guarded her... nor her in laws. That led her to rely on the security provided by other people, and to her being "OUT" of the RF. Had she been less suspicious of the RPOs, and her husband's family, she would have had better security that night in Paris, adn would hopefuly not have ended up in a car driven by a drunken driver.

That's right but at the end of it, Diana's prejudices against the RF didn't start with this interview. She competed with them and tried to outshine them at every turn. She was convinced that they were jealous of her. She had been paranoid and poised against the RF for years before Bashir fed these fears, especially if they really removed a man she was interested in from service as early as the 1980s. And still, post divorce she established a working relationship with Charles. She could have worked on her trust issues and accepted the better security.


I'm not saying Bashir played no part in this. He did. His behavior was all kind of no-no. But between the interview and Diana's death, there were two years. Too many things happened and if any of them had been done slightly differently, it might have ended differently. Engaging in ifs is not a good strategy. If Diana had refused to go to Paris, she wouldn't have been driven by a drunken driver either - and Bashir had nothing to do with this.

 

[Erin9]

I agree. Also he seems to be blaming the BBC for his parents relationship being bad. Sorry, but you can lay that at their feet.
.

I didn’t take it that way. I think he’s saying it made things worse between them. Which makes sense.

 

[Denville]

That's right but at the end of it, Diana's prejudices against the RF didn't start with this interview. She competed with them and tried to outshine them at every turn. She was convinced that they were jealous of her. She had been paranoid and poised against the RF for years before Bashir fed these fears, especially if they really removed a man she was interested in from service as early as the 1980s. And still, post divorce she established a working relationship with Charles. She could have worked on her trust issues and accepted the better security.


I'm not saying Bashir played no part in this. He did. His behavior was all kind of no-no. But between the interview and Diana's death, there were two years. Too many things happened and if any of them had been done slightly differently, it might have ended differently. Engaging in ifs is not a good strategy. If Diana had refused to go to Paris, she wouldn't have been driven by a drunken driver either - and Bashir had nothing to do with this.

No obviously Bashir didn't send her to Paris.. but he had a BIG role in adding to Diana's paranoia. He knew what she was like.. and he deliberately stoked up her fears and unhappiness, so that she'd talk to him. he knew she was paranoid, and played on it, and he told pretty outrageous lies to feed her fear and insecurity. That's really wicked IMO.
Diana was already uneasy and suspicious, all the more reason not to add to her fear and unhappiness. Im sceptical about how well she got on with Charles in the year or so at the end of her life. I think she still hd feelings for him but she still had hostility towards him... And the lies that Bashir told were big ones.. that Charles was in love with Tiggy LB, that the queen was ill and so was P Edward... that people were spying on Diana and her brother. These weren't a few little fibs, they were big lies, backed up by faked documents, that played on the mind of an unstable and vulnerable woman, for gain.

 

[Erin9]

All of the disclosures coming out now into the investigation of the Panorama interview just accentuates something I strongly believe and that is it does no one any good to air their dirty laundry, their emotions and their "side of the story" in the public domain. It serves absolutely *no* purpose whatsoever.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Erin9]

No obviously Bashir didn't send her to Paris.. but he had a BIG role in adding to Diana's paranoia. He knew what she was like.. and he deliberately stoked up her fears and unhappiness, so that she'd talk to him. he knew she was paranoid, and played on it, and he told pretty outrageous lies to feed her fear and insecurity. That's really wicked IMO.

Diana was already uneasy and suspicious, all the more reason not to add to her fear and unhappiness. Im sceptical about how well she got on with Charles in the year or so at the end of her life. I think she still hd feelings for him but she still had hostility towards him... And the lies that Bashir told were big ones.. that Charles was in love with Tiggy LB, that the queen was ill and so was P Edward... that people were spying on Diana and her brother. These weren't a few little fibs, they were big lies, backed up by faked documents, that played on the mind of an unstable and vulnerable woman, for gain.

I’d liken it to him pouring gasoline on a fire. Diana had trust issues, mental health issues before this. Charles and Diana’s relationship was bad before this.

Martin Bashir, with callous disregard, faked documents, lied and made everything worse FOR A STORY. It’s disgusting.

 

[Moran]

No obviously Bashir didn't send her to Paris.. but he had a BIG role in adding to Diana's paranoia. He knew what she was like.. and he deliberately stoked up her fears and unhappiness, so that she'd talk to him. he knew she was paranoid, and played on it, and he told pretty outrageous lies to feed her fear and insecurity. That's really wicked IMO.
Diana was already uneasy and suspicious, all the more reason not to add to her fear and unhappiness. Im sceptical about how well she got on with Charles in the year or so at the end of her life. I think she still hd feelings for him but she still had hostility towards him... And the lies that Bashir told were big ones.. that Charles was in love with Tiggy LB, that the queen was ill and so was P Edward... that people were spying on Diana and her brother. These weren't a few little fibs, they were big lies, backed up by faked documents, that played on the mind of an unstable and vulnerable woman, for gain.

That's why there are ethical standards. Or at least why there should be. What Bashir did was horrible and I would never deny it. What I disagree with is that he made Diana do something that she didn't want to do at all. At the end, it was harmful to her. And it was done under the wrong assumptions that Bashir fed into.

 

[Betsypaige]

I’d liken it to him pouring gasoline on a fire. Diana had trust issues, mental health issues before this. Charles and Diana’s relationship was bad before this.

Martin Bashir, with callous disregard, faked documents, lied and made everything worse FOR A STORY. It’s disgusting.

I couldn’t agree more. It doesn’t matter that Diana said what she said voluntarily or that she told all to Andrew Morton; those are separate issues from the gross violation of journalistic ethics exhibited by BBC and Bashir.

 

[Denville]

That's why there are ethical standards. Or at least why there should be. What Bashir did was horrible and I would never deny it. What I disagree with is that he made Diana do something that she didn't want to do at all. At the end, it was harmful to her. And it was done under the wrong assumptions that Bashir fed into.

No, she probably wanted to "tell her story" but she might not have been quite so wound up had she not had her paranoia stoked. Without him, riling her up, she might have still given an interview and it wouldn't have been a good idea, but she might not have gone quite so far as she did, in the things she said. He told her that "Charles was in love with the nanny" and that problaby led her to her attack on Tiggy....
She might not have made her explosive remarks about Charles being King, and while her relationship with the RF was not good, and probably would never have been very good, she might not have become so completely alienated from them so that she felt sure everyone was out to get her. And it probably greatly added to her unhappiness, believing that her husband's family were trying to get rid of her, that apart from her boys who were only childlren, she had no-one she could trust. Her friends who were sensible, who might have tried to "talk her down" and calm her, must have found it impossible when she had - she beleived - been given concrete proof that she was being "got at"....

 

[Leopoldine]

Bashir's fabrications about Ms. Legge-Bourke, Prince Edward et al. are horrific. I'm wondering if anyone Bashir slurred in his "wooing" of Diana will take legal action against the BBC or Bashir, or Lord Hall.

 

[Osipi]

I’d liken it to him pouring gasoline on a fire. Diana had trust issues, mental health issues before this. Charles and Diana’s relationship was bad before this.

Martin Bashir, with callous disregard, faked documents, lied and made everything worse FOR A STORY. It’s disgusting.

Even worse is that it blatantly was a story contrived to be told to the publlc viewing audience and actually seen by most as *entertainment*. It served no real purpose whatsoever and did no one any real good in the long run.

 

[Hallo girl]

Nobody can ever be sure about what might have been, but there is a ripple effect. He fed in to her paranoid, which could have resulted in her making choices she might not otherwise have made.

 

[Erin9]

Bashir's fabrications about Ms. Legge-Bourke, Prince Edward et al. are horrific. I'm wondering if anyone Bashir slurred in his "wooing" of Diana will take legal action against the BBC or Bashir, or Lord Hall.

I’m far from an expert on this subject. I had no idea his deception went so far. That’s....hateful- for lack of a better word- to drag so many people down for an interview.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

There are two separate issues here: the violation of journalistic ethics, and what Diana actually said in the interview.

I think it's important to remember that a poster can believe that these revelations about the ethical violations don't really bear on what was actually said without this meaning that the poster doesn't understand the gravity of the ethical violations

I thought William's statement was powerful, moving, poised, and quite frankly, masterful for the situation. But I also detected a hint of wistfulness. Those of you who have read biographies of William written when he was a teenager and young adult will know that it is widely accepted that the Panorama interview was one of the most traumatic events of William's childhood and dealt a devastating blow to his relationship with his mother. I am sure he, and others, would very much like to believe that the decision and words that caused them so much pain can, after all this time, actually be attributed to the maliciousness and deceit of someone else.

 

[Betsypaige]

I think Phil makes an excellent point. I think William has come to understand that his mother had her own issues, that she was troubled, that it’s not all on his father.

An extraordinary statement by #PrinceWilliam Not just because of his condemnation of #BBC and #MartinBashir but also his admission his mother was paranoid

https://twitter.com/x/status/1395491774752231432

 

[Erin9]

There are two separate issues here: the violation of journalistic ethics, and what Diana actually said in the interview.



I think it's important to remember that a poster can believe that these revelations about the ethical violations don't really bear on what was actually said without this meaning that the poster doesn't understand the gravity of the ethical violations



I thought William's statement was powerful, moving, poised, and quite frankly, masterful for the situation. But I also detected a hint of wistfulness. Those of you who have read biographies of William written when he was a teenager and young adult will know that it is widely accepted that the Panorama interview was one of the most traumatic events of William's childhood and dealt a devastating blow to his relationship with his mother. I am sure he, and others, would very much like to believe that the decision and words that caused them so much pain can, after all this time, actually be attributed to the maliciousness and deceit of someone else.

Good point.

I look at it from the POV that Diana may well have given a interview at some point anyway, But- would it have been THAT interview? Would she have taken things so far? We’ll never know.

IMO- Martin Bashir contributed to making a bad situation much worse.

 

[camelot23ca]

I’d liken it to him pouring gasoline on a fire. Diana had trust issues, mental health issues before this. Charles and Diana’s relationship was bad before this.

Martin Bashir, with callous disregard, faked documents, lied and made everything worse FOR A STORY. It’s disgusting.

Yes. While I still think the ultimate responsibility for the interview, and the negative consequences that arose because of it, are Diana’s, reading the full extent of Mr Bashir’s deception and the BBC’s subsequent coverup leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

I’m not surprised that William and Harry are angry. I agree with what William said, with the possible exception of his statement that Bashir’s deception influenced what Diana said in the interview. It may well have done, but I don’t think there’s any way to know this, and William does make clear he’s stating his own personal belief. As for worsening Diana’s paranoia and worsening her relationship with Charles, those seem like very logical consequences. I appreciated that William’s statement dealt only with this particular episode, that he did not use it to pummel the press in general, and that he did not join his brother in linking his mother’s death to the interview. The press did not kill Diana.

I have to say, William talking about the worsening of his parents’ relationship and the fear and paranoia he remembers during Diana’s last years made me very sad for him: he would have been old enough to perceive all of this, but too young to be able to do anything about it.

 

[Eskimo]

I think Phil makes an excellent point. I think William has come to understand that his mother had her own issues, that she was troubled, that it’s not all on his father.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1395491774752231432

That was the most striking part of the statement for me as well.

I think the question everyone is overlooking on this forum: If Bashir hadn’t stroked her paranoia through that faked information, would she have done the interview? I think not, she’d probably have considered it a step too far to say quite a few of the things she said.

 

[chelly]

That was the most striking part of the statement for me as well.

I think the question everyone is overlooking on this forum: If Bashir hadn’t stroked her paranoia through that faked information, would she have done the interview? I think not, she’d probably have considered it a step too far to say quite a few of the things she said.

Prince Charles doing his interview probably didn't help either. Not saying he should shoulder any blame, but there was probably quite a few factors but Bashir being the biggest one.

 

[camelot23ca]

That was the most striking part of the statement for me as well.

I think the question everyone is overlooking on this forum: If Bashir hadn’t stroked her paranoia through that faked information, would she have done the interview? I think not, she’d probably have considered it a step too far to say quite a few of the things she said.

Who knows what Diana would have done, but looking back on emotionally charged situations that have occurred in my own life, I can think of several examples where I only would have needed one small push to say something that would have been very satisfying in the moment, but that I would have regretted saying later on.

If Bashir hadn’t come along, Diana may have publicly unloaded all these issues to someone else. Or she may have held back, and gradually cooled down to the point where she was able to see the wisdom in keeping private issues private.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I agree. Also he seems to be blaming the BBC for his parents relationship being bad. Sorry, but you can lay that at their feet.


I am glad they were held to account but Diana still said what she said. You can't just brush her words away. The actions of this reporter was disgusting. No one can question that but we also can't suddenly rewrite history.

William did not blame the BBC for his parents relationship being bad.

He said it added to the issues they were having ... he therefore acknowledged they weren't in a good place but that this interview made things worse.

 

[Iluvbertie]

That was the most striking part of the statement for me as well.

I think the question everyone is overlooking on this forum: If Bashir hadn’t stroked her paranoia through that faked information, would she have done the interview? I think not, she’d probably have considered it a step too far to say quite a few of the things she said.

A number of reporters, who were around at the time, have indicated that she was in contact with a number of outlets - print and TV - to do an interview so if it wasn't Bashir it would have been with someone. Would the same questions have been asked? Would her answers have been the same? We will never know but she would have done an interview with someone.

 

[TLLK]

I agree. Also he seems to be blaming the BBC for his parents relationship being bad. Sorry, but you can lay that at their feet.


I am glad they were held to account but Diana still said what she said. You can't just brush her words away. The actions of this reporter was disgusting. No one can question that but we also can't suddenly rewrite history.

I disagree with the italicized portion of your reply. William said that it made it worse therefore acknowledging that it was already in a poor state. From William's statement :

The interview was a major contribution to making my parents’ relationship worse and has since hurt countless others.

I do agree with the other portion of your statement.

 

[Betsypaige]

I have to say, William talking about the worsening of his parents’ relationship and the fear and paranoia he remembers during Diana’s last years made me very sad for him: he would have been old enough to perceive all of this, but too young to be able to do anything about it.

Me as well....he loved both his parents and he couldn’t help them. Diana by accounts confided in William - that must have been uncomfortable; he was just a boy, and had to be almost an adult.

 

[Somebody]

Yes. While I still think the ultimate responsibility for the interview, and the negative consequences that arose because of it, are Diana’s, reading the full extent of Mr Bashir’s deception and the BBC’s subsequent coverup leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

I’m not surprised that William and Harry are angry. I agree with what William said, with the possible exception of his statement that Bashir’s deception influenced what Diana said in the interview. It may well have done, but I don’t think there’s any way to know this, and William does make clear he’s stating his own personal belief. As for worsening Diana’s paranoia and worsening her relationship with Charles, those seem like very logical consequences. I appreciated that William’s statement dealt only with this particular episode, that he did not use it to pummel the press in general, and that he did not join his brother in linking his mother’s death to the interview. The press did not kill Diana.

I have to say, William talking about the worsening of his parents’ relationship and the fear and paranoia he remembers during Diana’s last years made me very sad for him: he would have been old enough to perceive all of this, but too young to be able to do anything about it.

I mostly agree. I, however, do see why it is William's firm belief that the deception influenced what Diana was willing to say in that interview. He also seems to question what was said but to me it seems more about things that might have been left unsaid otherwise; not necessarily that what was said was completely off (although just like we are seeing now 'it did paint a picture' that did not necessarily fully correspond with the truth).

And yes, the part about how he recalled his mother being so paranoia in her final years must be a terrible memory; and I am glad he also calls out the larger organization that apparently knew more about it in 1995; because had they spoken, Diana would still have been paranoid most likely but it would have made a difference in terms of her relationship with the various members of the royal family.

I agree also that it is striking that while both Harry and the Earl Spencer make the link to her death, William does not - his views seem more realistic somehow: addressing what it directly did (while also acknowledging it was a 'major contribution' but not something that completely changed everything from good to bad) without connecting it to her untimely death.
Earl Spencer: "The irony is that I met Martin Bashir on the 31st of August 1995, because exactly two years later she died, and I do draw a line between the two events."
Harry: "The ripple effect of a culture of exploitation and unethical practices ultimately took her life. (...) Our mother lost her life because of this, and nothing has changed."
William: "It brings indescribable sadness to know that the BBC’s failures contributed significantly to her fear, paranoia and isolation that I remember from those final years with her."

 

[Moonmaiden23]

How sad and angry this whole thing makes me. The BBC, an organization I always had so much respect for, employed an unethical journalist who manipulated Diana, setting off a chain of events that i am 100% convinced led the Princess of Wales into the Pont de l'Alma in August 1997.

My heart broke to read William describe his final memories of his mother as a suspicious and paranoid woman.
As cruel as it may sound, Martin Beshir's current health problems seem karmic.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I mostly agree. I, however, do see why it is William's firm belief that the deception influenced what Diana was willing to say in that interview. He also seems to question what was said but to me it seems more about things that might have been left unsaid otherwise; not necessarily that what was said was completely off (although just like we are seeing now 'it did paint a picture' that did not necessarily fully correspond with the truth).

And yes, the part about how he recalled his mother being so paranoia in her final years must be a terrible memory; and I am glad he also calls out the larger organization that apparently knew more about it in 1995; because had they spoken, Diana would still have been paranoid most likely but it would have made a difference in terms of her relationship with the various members of the royal family.

I agree also that it is striking that while both Harry and the Earl Spencer make the link to her death, William does not - his views seem more realistic somehow: addressing what it directly did (while also acknowledging it was a 'major contribution' but not something that completely changed everything from good to bad) without connecting it to her untimely death.
Earl Spencer: "The irony is that I met Martin Bashir on the 31st of August 1995, because exactly two years later she died, and I do draw a line between the two events."
Harry: "The ripple effect of a culture of exploitation and unethical practices ultimately took her life. (...) Our mother lost her life because of this, and nothing has changed."
William: "It brings indescribable sadness to know that the BBC’s failures contributed significantly to her fear, paranoia and isolation that I remember from those final years with her."

That’s a very good point. The other two always seem so eager to hit the jackpot so to speak on every occasion. It is less effective

 

[Leopoldine]

Lord Hall's role, in congratulating Bashir post-interview, then quashing the later investigation, is serious. He is in the same cultural orbits as the PoW -- opera, art, etc., and I hope he gets a come-uppance.

In the lead-up to that interview, BBC personnel "in the know" took great pains to keep the BBC chairman, Marmaduke Hussey, in the dark. Duke Hussey's wife was Lady Susan Hussey, Lady-in-Waiting to HM since 1960. Tony Hall may have violated some corporation ethical guidelines in not informing the chairman of the BBC about the upcoming interview.

 

[Prinsara]

I don't think that the Panorama deceptions can be responsible for every prior and subsequent decision and poor choice Diana made, including the fatal ones. On the other hand, it was not only shockingly and disgustingly unethical, it contributed to her unease, poor decision making, and unhappy state of mind. So I guess I'm with William on this one. It's quite sad, and must be very painful for him and Harry.