Run-up to the inquest into Diana's death

[MARG]

More pictures might have allayed some of the suspicions put onto the royal establishment. .......Then I'd like more pictures to determine if Diana was, by some reports, walking around after the accident? I suppose whoever claimed that was ridiculed and mocked into silence.
As I said before, there's no need to twist this into something sick like a morbid fascination with blood and death. That's just another tactic to bully someone into silence.
:::::::::::::::::::

The main point is "I". In this case you. Such evidence belongs in a court of law. Who are you, or I for that matter, to demand the "right" to decide what is and what is not true.

This is not some ghastly Hollywood reality show a-la Anna Nicole Smith. This is a legal inquest into the circumstances surrounding the death of Diana Princess of Wales. Unless we are required by law to present evidence (not speculation) or called to serve on the Jury we have no rights at all.

Just because Tony Blair coined the phrase "The People's Princess" does not make her our next of kin. She did not belong to us in life and she certainly does not belong to us in death.

As for "twisting it into something sick",the facts speak for themselves. Photos of a dead or dying princess were not even deemed suitable as fodder for the tabloids in Britain.

 

[sassie]

Then I'd like more pictures to determine if Diana was, by some reports, walking around after the accident? I suppose whoever claimed that was ridiculed and mocked into silence.

I doubt they were ridiculed, or even mocked. But, think about what the statement that Diana was seen walking around after the accident suggests. That the Princess, bleeding internally, somehow got out of the damaged car, walked around, then got back into the car, in the exact same position, jammed her foot back under the seat, and waited for the rescue teams to dismantle the car to get her out again. It's a completely implausible scenario that doesn't fit with the known circumstances and the other eyewitness accounts, and it is reasonable to suggest that the person was mistaken.

 

[zhontella]

I doubt they were ridiculed, or even mocked. But, think about what the statement that Diana was seen walking around after the accident suggests. That the Princess, bleeding internally, somehow got out of the damaged car, walked around, then got back into the car, in the exact same position, jammed her foot back under the seat, and waited for the rescue teams to dismantle the car to get her out again. It's a completely implausible scenario that doesn't fit with the known circumstances and the other eyewitness accounts, and it is reasonable to suggest that the person was mistaken.

The first physician on the scene, obviously unscripted, thought Diana would be ok. What if she was ok after the ~ hour it took to get her out of the car, and she was walking around as reported by someone? Then she gets into the ambulance for the hour long "lost ride" to the hospital, and by the time she arrives, she has fatal injuries. There are jujitsu, judo, aikido moves that know very well how to rupture an aorta.

 

[Chiyo]

And what if the crash was caused by a stray UFO which shorted out the circuits in the tunnel causing the CCTV to go out and Henri-Paul was so startled he careened into a pillar?

 

[MARG]

The first physician on the scene, obviously unscripted, thought Diana would be ok. What if she was ok after the ~ hour it took to get her out of the car, and she was walking around as reported by someone? Then she gets into the ambulance for the hour long "lost ride" to the hospital, and by the time she arrives, she has fatal injuries. There are jujitsu, judo, aikido moves that know very well how to rupture an aorta.

Facts in evidence please!

Name of the "first physician", where he practices and exact quotes from his sworn deposition to support this "evidence"?

Evidence that she was murdered on the way to hospital?

Any facts at all?

From your quote we have it taking over an hour to get her out of the car, then time taken to have a wee walk around followed by a hour long "lost ride" to the hospital.

Sworn evidence please!

 

[Elspeth]

The first physician on the scene, obviously unscripted, thought Diana would be ok.

The first physician on the scene didn't know about her internal injuries.

Here's a transcript of a CNN interview with him, among others:

CNN.com - Transcripts

Doesn't sound as though he's saying she was doing fine.

What if she was ok after the ~ hour it took to get her out of the car, and she was walking around as reported by someone? Then she gets into the ambulance for the hour long "lost ride" to the hospital, and by the time she arrives, she has fatal injuries. There are jujitsu, judo, aikido moves that know very well how to rupture an aorta.

So let's get this straight - someone (the British Establishment) wanted to kill her, so they arranged somehow for the car to crash into a pillar in a tunnel and then they had a backup plan involving a homicidal ambulance crew in case she survived the crash?

At what point does this scenario start to become more far-fetched than the scenario involving an inebriated driver crashing a car he wasn't licensed to drive because he's being pursued by paparazzi?

 

[zhontella]

The first physician on the scene didn't know about her internal injuries.

Here's a transcript of a CNN interview with him, among others:

CNN.com - Transcripts

Doesn't sound as though he's saying she was doing fine.

I specifically remember him saying he thought she had a chance of making it. I suppose the tone and flavor changed some in retrospect.

So let's get this straight - someone (the British Establishment) wanted to kill her, so they arranged somehow for the car to crash into a pillar in a tunnel and then they had a backup plan involving a homicidal ambulance crew in case she survived the crash?

At what point does this scenario start to become more far-fetched than the scenario involving an inebriated driver crashing a car he wasn't licensed to drive because he's being pursued by paparazzi?

Good point. I always try to look for the simplest explanation. However, the probablility that Diana and Dodi and Trevor Rees-Jones each and all did not notice that Henri Paul was drunk is far-fetched. I mean, gee whiz, I always told my daughter not to get in a car with a drunk driver, and I assume there is some point to this warning in that she could tell the difference. Could you? I know I would know if I was about to drive with someone who was drunk.

Furthermore, if this was an assassination plot involving an auto accident, then the idea that the driver was drunk would be central to the plausibility of this being merely an accident. So at first, according to Steven's report, they mixed up Henri Paul's blood with that of a suicide victim that died that night from CO intoxication while drunk on ETOH. Then the mix-up was corrected and it was still concluded that Henri Paul was drunk and his CO levels were within normal range -- even though very high. Now that takes some real mental gymnastics to assimilate - accept.
::::::::::::::::::::

 

[ysbel]

Henri Paul did not have to be drunk to accidentally wreck a car with 4 passengers. The car was going very fast, it was bigger, heavier and harder to control that the types of cars he was used to and he wasn't used to carrying a client who was being chased by papparazzi on motorbikes.

People get into accidents without being drunk all the time. They get in accidents because they make errors of judgement - error such as thinking that they are a good enough driver that they can outrun the papparazzi on motorcycles even though their car is a lot bigger and harder to handle and the motocycles are much more manoeverable in city streets.

I don't think Henri Paul's alcohol levels or appearance were too significant. He was a heavy drinker and had developed a tolerance for alcohol. The same amount of alcohol that would make another person drunk would leave him looking completely sober. However, even if he were not drunk, alcohol would have an effect on his reflexes and make him more prone to accidents - especially at high speed.

 

[Elspeth]

I specifically remember him saying he thought she had a chance of making it.

Can you remember where you read it? There may still be a transcript online if you do some searching. Course, it's possible that he just meant he didn't think her injuries were life-threatening, which doesn't necessarily mean he thought she was capable of getting up and walking around.

Good point. I always try to look for the simplest explanation. However, the probablility that Diana and Dodi and Trevor Rees-Jones each and all did not notice that Henri Paul was drunk is far-fetched.

It may not be, though. There are degrees of inebriation, and some of them, particularly in a person used to drinking, aren't that easy to detect. Had he been driving under normal conditions, everything might have been OK even if he was over the limit. However, given the special circumstances of driving late at night, being pursued by photographers with flash guns on powerful motor bikes, in an armoured car which he wasn't trained or licenced to drive (or so I read), under pressure from Dodi to go faster, it's not surprising that something happened. Heck, even without the alcohol, that was a nasty set of conditions, and I gather that tunnel is something of an accident blackspot. Why they had those square pillars without any crash barriers in front of them (at least, that's how it looked) is mystifying.

Furthermore, if this was an assassination plot involving an auto accident, then the idea that the driver was drunk would be central to the plausibility of this being merely an accident. So at first, according to Steven's report, they mixed up Henri Paul's blood with that of a suicide victim that died that night from CO intoxication while drunk on ETOH. Then the mix-up was corrected and it was still concluded that Henri Paul was drunk and his CO levels were within normal range -- even though very high. Now that takes some real mental gymnastics to assimilate - accept.

Where in the Stevens report did they say they switched his blood with someone else's? Would this be one of the quotes from one of Fayed's people? All I can see in the Stevens report is a discussion of sloppy labelling of blood from the chest cavity (which apparently isn't a good sample for carboxyhaemoglobin testing) as being from the heart (which is), and that they accept that the actual level was nearer 12%, which was the level recorded on another sample. In this day and age of DNA testing, and with both Henri Paul's parents alive to get samples from for comparison, it shouldn't be impossible to verify the source of the samples in question.

 

[sassie]

Can you remember where you read it? There may still be a transcript online if you do some searching. Course, it's possible that he just meant he didn't think her injuries were life-threatening, which doesn't necessarily mean he thought she was capable of getting up and walking around.

As I recall, Dr. Mailliez did say, based on his external examination, that he thought 'she would be okay' once she had been extricated from the wreckage and received treatment. BUT, he also said, very clearly, that he did not have the means to take her blood pressure, so he could not have realized that she was bleeding internally-and if he had realized the extent of her internal injuries, he would have rated her chances much lower. At no time did he imply that he thought she was capable of getting up and walking around, considering that he said she was 'unconscious and groaning'. As it was, his examination was quite brief, since the rescue teams arrived and he stepped back to let them do their work.

 

[sassie]

The first physician on the scene, obviously unscripted, thought Diana would be ok. What if she was ok after the ~ hour it took to get her out of the car, and she was walking around as reported by someone? Then she gets into the ambulance for the hour long "lost ride" to the hospital, and by the time she arrives, she has fatal injuries. There are jujitsu, judo, aikido moves that know very well how to rupture an aorta.

Her aorta wasn't ruptured. She suffered a tear to the left pulmonary vein.

However, the probablility that Diana and Dodi and Trevor Rees-Jones each and all did not notice that Henri Paul was drunk is far-fetched. I mean, gee whiz, I always told my daughter not to get in a car with a drunk driver, and I assume there is some point to this warning in that she could tell the difference. Could you? I know I would know if I was about to drive with someone who was drunk.

Well, okay. But, let's assume, hypothetically, that Henri Paul was French and he had been drinking alcohol since his teens. And, let's assume, hypothetically, that Henri Paul was a functioning alcoholic undergoing treatment for that disease. It follows that he had a high tolerance for alcohol, so the effects of his alcohol consumption that night were not as obvious as they might have been in someone with a lower tolerance.

So, he goes to the Ritz, and his mood is highly elevated as a result of his drinking, but he was also making an attempt to act courteous and professional in the presence of his boss's son and the Princess. Let's say, hypothetically, that there is some videotape which shows Paul talking to the couple that supports the theory of his relatively calm demeanor. On what basis of comparison were Diana, Dodi, and Trevor Rees supposed to assess his personality? They didn't know that man. Diana and Trevor Rees had only just met him the day before-Dodi only a few times before that. They didn't know what he was like when he was happy, sad, angry, agitated. And let's hypothetically include that it was late at night and everyone was tired, so their perceptions may have been dulled.

In any case, as someone posted earlier, you don't have to be drunk to crash a car.

 

[Skydragon]

Phoney Pharaoh of Harrods

Like Madame Tussauds, Harrods of Knightsbridge used to be one of the tourist stopovers of London. The late 19th century made retail in the capitals of the world one of its wonders. People who would previously queue to see museums and fine pieces of architecture were now invited to marvel at the Macy’s in New York, at the Bon Marché in Paris and at Harrods in London

 

[sirhon11234]

That article has stated nothing new. I sometimes feel sorry for Al Fayed. He's dealing with his grief by calling his son's and diana's death a murder and accusing Prince Phillip of being the master mind of the crash.

 

[Skydragon]

The article shows what some others think of Fayed, he is a laughing stock!

 

[sirhon11234]

Well I have to admit that he is somewhat of a laughing stock. At least Harrods is still doing well I think.

 

[sirhon11234]

DIANA DEATH: EX-SPY IS GAGGED
Mirror.co.uk - News - Top Stories - DIANA DEATH: EX-SPY IS GAGGED

 

[Skydragon]

What's crafty about it, every civil servant and army officer, has to sign the official secrets act! Butler Sloss clearly felt he had nothing to offer in the way of relevant evidence, if he had, don't we all know Fayed would have seized on it!

 

[gfg02]

Diana inquiry officer asked to be Britain's anti-terror Minister

Diana inquiry officer asked to be Britain's anti-terror Minister | News | This is London

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Diana inquiry officer asked to be Britain's anti-terror Minister

Diana inquiry officer asked to be Britain's anti-terror Minister | News | This is London

That will be water on the al-Fayed-mill, as the anti-terror minister surely works together closely with the Secret Services....

 

[Skydragon]

Al-Fayed takes legal fight over Diana death to France

Harrods-owner Mohamed al-Fayed has taken his legal fight to ascertain the 'truth' about the death of Princess Diana and his son, Dodi, to France, reports in London said Monday.

 

[Skydragon]

Al Fayed seeks Princess Di inquiry papers

Lawyers for Mohamed al Fayed asked a coroner Wednesday to order the Metropolitan Police to hand over all documents and interviews from the force's three-year investigation into the deaths of his son Dodi Fayed and Princess Diana.

Al Fayed seeks Princess Di inquiry papers - Yahoo! News

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Al Fayed seeks Princess Di inquiry papers

Lawyers for Mohamed al Fayed asked a coroner Wednesday to order the Metropolitan Police to hand over all documents and interviews from the force's three-year investigation into the deaths of his son Dodi Fayed and Princess Diana.

Al Fayed seeks Princess Di inquiry papers - Yahoo! News

That seems like a reasonable wish, IMHO - it's always better to review the material by oneself and one's legal advisors. Here in Germany it is standard procedure that your lawyer asks to be shown all documents including the transcripts of all police interrogations etc. Maybe that even puits an end to his suspicions.

 

[Skydragon]

That seems like a reasonable wish, IMHO - it's always better to review the material by oneself and one's legal advisors.

The trouble is, the reason he really wants access to all the files, is to find out what Charles and the boys said in their statements. He also probably wants to check that all of his employees said exactly what it was suggested they said.

Fayed lawyers ask to see Charles' notes

Lawyers for Mohamed Fayed today sought access to notes from an interview with Prince Charles in connection with the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, which they suggested police had failed to disclose.

Fayed lawyers ask to see Charles' notes | Uk News | News | Telegraph

 

[scooter]

Oh I see. So she was murdered but we'll never know because the evidence has been gotten rid of? Sounds like, "Only the Messiah would deny his true divinity" to me.

Please! we dont want to rile up the religious again!

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Well, everyone knows she was "murdered" right? (sarcasm). It must have been the unseen puppeteers who steer the monarchy down a profitable course because Prince Philip is sure to have some MI6 secret agents plotting out his dirty work. Because the MI6 and the "Establishment" don't have anything better to do than eavesdrop on Diana and Dodi's pillow talk.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

On a serious note about the inquest, and the paget report, what did everyone think about it? I read the overview and am still prodding through the 800-some odd pages of the full report that the Daily Mail published. I also looked up Lord Stevens to get some idea of who is he, where he's coming from, and I am very impressed. I think he was an excellent choice, whoever made the choice, to have him do this report. I was surprised to see how "non-establishment" he is. His history as a detective shows that he is unafraid of pointing fingers at organizations as long as the evidence, rather than supposition, does the pointing. I hope I'm not being naive, but can't help feeling real respect for the way he carried out this investigation.

 

[sirhon11234]

The inquest report provided alot unanswered questions I had about the crash. It explained why the ambulance chose to go to Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital which I thought was very strange but now I understand why. The report was very informative.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

The inquest report provided alot unanswered questions I had about the crash. It explained why the ambulance chose to go to Pitié-Salpêtrière Hospital which I thought was very strange but now I understand why. The report was very informative.

Yes, the report is totally thorough. I think Lord Stevens and his team truly did what they said was their intention: the close the book on it. But I don't think the conspiracy theorists will ever be satisfied. To them, I think it's impossible to let it go because she symbolized for them the beautiful, troubled fairy princess who was such a "threat" to "the foundation of the monarchy". I have no doubt that she offended many of the old guard, provoking some to worry that she had become a 'loose cannon' but as Stevens pointed out in the overview, for such an assasination to be possible there must be such elaborate, organized operations underway, and the time and last-minute changes going on that night would have rendered any such plot to fail.
I wasn't even going to read the report at first because I was already convinced long ago that there was nothing conspiratorial going on, but I know someone who insists on the idea it was an assasination, so I started out just looking for counter-allegations. Sadly, they fall on deaf ears and if I hear one more time that the "evil Establishment" wanted her dead because her boyfriend was of Islamic persuasion, "she was pregnant with his child", my head is going to start spinning 90mph and shooting out sparks of infuriation.
To be fair, I don't deny that there are several strange elements about the accident and the investigations since. But after reading many of your posts in this thread, I am confirmed in my belief that Diana and Fayed only got in the car with Henri Paul driving because they were being careless. I loved Diana as much as anyone, but remember, before they left the hotel the last time, she had had some champagne, and Dodi too, and I think that combined with an exhausting day of jewelry shopping, dinner, and evading the paparazzi made them careless, maybe a bit cavalier about things.
So maybe they thought, oh maybe he's tipsy, but he can drive, he'll be fine.
If they had just let Trevor Rees-Jones drive the car, they might be alive today.
Also, the Fiat is an anomoly. Stevens' theory was perfectly sensical, but the lack of conclusiveness won't satisfy the conspiracy theorists.
Which begs the mention of another anomoly of this case: That the conspiracy theorists cite suppositions and the most annoying "if's" and "maybe" idea, but expect nothing less than absolute conclusions for every last detail even 10 years after the fact. They can trump up their baseless "maybe's" but if the "Establishment" come back with anything less than 100% certainty, they're engaging in conspiracy to cover up a murder.

 

[sassie]

I hear one more time that the "evil Establishment" wanted her dead because her boyfriend was of Islamic persuasion, "she was pregnant with his child", my head is going to start spinning 90mph and shooting out sparks of infuriation.

I know just how you feel.

 

[MARG]

I know just how you feel.

Me too!

Isn't it ghastly that the whole "Groundhog Day" has started again.