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  #141  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:56 AM
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It is unfortionate that raine was the target. She just happen to join the spencer family at the wrong time of there lives, i think.
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  #142  
Old 05-01-2018, 02:08 PM
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Diana was also very close to her father after the divorce. Her caretaking skills made their appearance during this time as Diana felt she had to look after her Daddy.

If I remember right, the Spencer children were not asked or involved at all with Johnny's decision to marry Raine and all of a sudden they were presented with a stepmother. That had to be a big blow. From what I do know of Raine, she did kind of have a personality like a steamroller and set about doing things the Raine way. With the girls all off to boarding school (not sure where Charles was at the time of the marriage), there was not really much of a chance for them all to come together at the beginning as a family and Raine was seen as an "intruder".

Diana and Raine did come to understand each other better and got along better before Diana died. I think that came about at Johnny's death because at that time, Charles became Earl Spencer and inherited Althorp and Raine went on into another marriage.
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  #143  
Old 05-01-2018, 02:42 PM
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Yes Osipi, I totally agree 100%. I know it was difficult for diana because she loved her daddy so much. It still doesn't justify her actions that's all I'm saying.
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  #144  
Old 05-01-2018, 02:53 PM
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Oh there was no excuse for her actions at all. Perhaps in a way going to boarding school as a young girl and teenager was the best option for her. At school, there was discipline and rules to be followed and as both her parents didn't actually actively participate in discipling Diana, she needed the structure of boarding school for that.

Diana has been described as always being a willful child and that persisted with her into her adulthood.
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  #145  
Old 05-01-2018, 04:28 PM
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It was also said the when her father put her in boarding school, diana told him if you leave me now you don't love me. She probably felt raine was taking her father away from her.
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  #146  
Old 05-01-2018, 06:31 PM
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Opisi what happened? You didn't comment on the last messege i left you.
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  #147  
Old 05-01-2018, 06:45 PM
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Although my little green light next to my name seems to indicate that I'm here and alert and active, I've opted to select the "remember me" option at sign in and as I never usually shut my system down, it does look like I'm always here and ready to reply. I did kind of get sidetracked here for a bit with life, streaming some shows I need to catch up and things that I'd rather ignore like dirty dishes and preparing food and all those things us old retired folks do.

I remember that statement about Diana going away to boarding school. It was good for her though as it gave her a day to day structure of what was expected of her and rules she had to follow. Discipline. I also remember too that during her school years away, she often was deemed the caretaker and was always straightening up and doing for her schoolmates.

Diana's caretaking habits served her for her entire life in good stead. Its also very possible (in my opinion only) that the hurt and the hate and the betrayal she felt when Johnny married Raine planted the seed in Diana that any woman could pose a threat between her and her beloved.
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  #148  
Old 05-01-2018, 08:39 PM
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Yea, I surppose your right. I also don't believe she hated her stepmother so much like she said, I do on the other hand feel though she felt that way towards her mother because she left her at a very tender age of six. With all about her pushing raine down the stairs because of her mother, it turned out she herself didn't speak to her own mother ever again and became to love raine towards the end. At least she had the desency to apologize for everything.
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  #149  
Old 05-01-2018, 08:40 PM
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The last message was for you Opisi.
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  #150  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:29 PM
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The really awful thing is that the stairs and clothes both happened when she was a married woman. She had no care about showing a degree of anger, hatred and hostility that would have shocked her loyal fans.

Actually, it shocked most adult people because normal adults do not behave this way. The may want to, but the strictures of society say such behaviour is unacceptable in a grown woman.
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  #151  
Old 05-01-2018, 09:29 PM
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A lot of our habits and our character is formed in our childhood years and I do think its because of the sense of being abandoned by her mother, her father shipping her off to boarding school and her father's subsequent marriage to Raine practically without involving his family at all kind of made Diana build a protective wall around her to shield herself from the hurts of life. Even up until the day she died, she was well known for "freezing" people out totally and completely should they in any way cross her. Once you were on the outs with Diana, its like you didn't exist with her. It was primarily a defense mechanism that Diana built in over her lifetime.

There were occasions where the fences were mended with both her mother and Raine but I don't think she ever felt extraordinarily close with either woman as an adult.
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  #152  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:19 PM
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I'm not making excuses for diana i don't care if she was the princess or not. Like Marg said she was no baby, but I say too it was her mental illnes and she needed to be put somewhere they could have treated her the right way. Her fame did not do her a bit of good: look where it got her in the grave.
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  #153  
Old 05-01-2018, 10:33 PM
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Can I recommend a good book that really delves into the psychological makeup of Diana? Its Sally Bedell Smith's "Diana: Portrait Of A Troubled Princess". I do believe that Diana had many issues that she needed to confront and learn to live with but then again, don't we all at one time or another?

I found the book really cheap at https://www.abebooks.com. Its a godsend for those of us that love to read a lot.
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  #154  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Raine married John in 1976, the selling was in 1991.

John Spencer approved of the sales.

In 1991, he specifically made of point of naming Diana as not understanding about money when the sale of items became public.

Diana never had a real job. She would only work a few months, usually a few days a week, before quitting and going on vacation for a few months.

If she had paid her own way rather than expect her mother to pay for her flat and her father to foot the bills she would have appreciated what Raine was doing
.

In 1997, Diana claimed she could not afford to remove the Laura Ashley wall covering even with a very large divorce settlement and with Charles still paying for all her household expenses.

This is probably when Diana finally appreciated and realized what Raine had been trying to do.
Thank you, Queen Camilla, for bringing clarity to very muddy waters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Oh, how I love revisionist history where the victims become the villains. Raine was not given custody of her children for the same reason as Frances didn't. It is essential that history is discussed in its time and place and not viewed through the lens of 2018!

They lived in a patriarchal society at a time where women were still forced to remain in an abusive marriage because they could not afford to support themselves and, in aristocratic families, the father would have had to be a convicted axe murderer to not win custody of his children.
Thank you, MARG, too, for bringing clarity to very muddy waters.

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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
How dare Diane slap her father's face. What an arrogant action and believing that she got to dictate her father's life. It's right up there with shoving Raine down the stairs and shoving her clothes and possessions in rubbish bags and throwing them out the door.

Too right she needed discipline as a child and self-discipline as an adult because she had neither.
Yes, it needs to be said!
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  #155  
Old 05-01-2018, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
This perspective is very one sided in favor of the Spencers who were adults and teens when their father remarried. They never gave Raine a chance. The words used to describe Raine should be applied and are better suited to describe Diana, Jane, Charles Spencer and Sarah.

The Spencers stepchildren were ungrateful. If it was not for Raine, John Spencer would have died in 1978. The woman married a sickly man and took care of him. She placed the welfare of her new husband and his ungrateful children above her own children.
And those words: "arrogant, pushy, selfish, snobby, full of herself." Ouch! But perilously close to the truth, not so? How easily people are willing to be deceived by their heroes/heroines!
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  #156  
Old 05-02-2018, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Diana's mother did not abandon her.
Her mother moved to London and took the Diana & Charles with her.
At Christmas time Diana & Charles went to live with their father and were enrolled in school in Norfolk.
It was joint custody not abandonment. The joint custody continued after the divorce. She saw more of her mother than her father. This is according to her step sister.




This perspective is very one sided in favor of the Spencers who were adults and teens when their father remarried. They never gave Raine a chance. The words used to describe Raine should be applied and are better suited to describe Diana, Jane, Charles Spencer and Sarah.


The Spencers stepchildren were ungrateful. If it was not for Raine, John Spencer would have died in 1978. The woman married a sickly man and took care of him. She placed the welfare of her new husband and his ungrateful children above her own children.
I believe Raine later had joint custody of her children.


Interesting view. Adultery is usually defined if either or both party is married.

It always seems to be the children's fault doesn't it? But from whom do these nasty ungrateful children learn? Children yearn for parental approval. Mimicry being the sincerest form of flattery, they copy parental behaviour. If parents put their own needs before the children's, the children are likely to feel unworthy of parental affection and approval. They're very likely to carry thin sense of unworthiness with them into adulthood. Even more likely will they be to pick a partner who makes them feel unworthy because it's what they understand.
So if we go back to the Spencer children -almost two separate families of Sarah and Jane, and Diana and Charles- who had lived through the turmoil of their parent's car crash of a marriage and had received little by way of emotional stability, at a time, in their teens, a time of HUGE emotional upheaval anyway, when things may have become as stable for them as they'd ever been, they're faced with the shock of the whirlwind which was Raine -NOT renown for her motherliness but given her own role-model, hardly surprising- as a fait accomplis. As is they way in MANY families -not just the aristocratic- I'm willing to bet that their father's remarriage had never been discussed with them. It wouldn't have been deemed necessary. We see this model played out in Georgian and Victorian England when aristocratic offspring were children until they left the schoolroom, from where the girls were married within the year and boys went on the Grand Tour. They weren't required to 'feel' -they probably wouldn't have known how to- they were simply required to 'do' whatever they were instructed or were told was their duty.
It takes enormous strength and courage to break away from this ingrained model. It's not possible to shrug off, overnight, a life-time's indoctrination, especially when it means questioning a role model. Often there are mutterings of "ungrateful children" but why is it necessary for children to show gratitude when the decisions taken by their parents have been more for their own benefit than their children's?
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  #157  
Old 05-02-2018, 08:17 AM
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Hey Tsaritsa: I understand that children pick up things from there parents whether it's good or bad. But if that's the case, they should of hated the fathet as well for not telling them about raine. He didn't do much justice either for them.
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  #158  
Old 05-02-2018, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veronicalambertis View Post
Hey Tsaritsa: I understand that children pick up things from there parents whether it's good or bad. But if that's the case, they should of hated the fathet as well for not telling them about raine. He didn't do much justice either for them.

Mmm That very much depends on what they picked up as children. Diana appeared to adore her father, who allegedly had been cruel both physically and psychologically, to her mother. As it was her mother who left -and we have no way of knowing what the children were told, indeed, IF they were told anything at all- it's possible that they came to their own conclusions and it was she who they blamed. They could have transferred their resentment, against her, to Raine. It must also be acknowledged, that in the interim, after their mother left, perhaps out of guilt? perhaps by way of compensation? Johnny Spencer had probably spoilt them rotten and they'd subsequently been able to twist him round their little fingers, all of which would have come to a full stop with the advent of Raine who, incidentally, MAY, if she wasn't blessed with the skin of a rhinoceros, have deserved a medal for what she took on.
There is no "should" about how they -or anyone of us- felt/feels. We feel what we feel. It's the result of how we/they experience our/their own worlds.
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  #159  
Old 05-02-2018, 09:24 AM
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I never really though of it way. I guess you have to be strong as a ox to put up with what she did. I believe later on diana respected and admired raine's strength because at first she (Diana)couldn't handle it.I could be wrong.
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  #160  
Old 05-02-2018, 09:26 AM
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This is for you Tsaritsa
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