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  #261  
Old 07-26-2018, 01:12 AM
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I, personally, think that both William and Harry would have seen Burrell for exactly who he was. An employee of their mother's household. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  #262  
Old 07-26-2018, 01:16 AM
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He was for time close to Diana, and Im sure that they regarded him as a friend in that sense. THey knew that Diana needed someone to look after her and Paul was a very devoted servant. But he did cross so many lines after her death that I can understand that they lost any respect for him...
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  #263  
Old 07-26-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why should they?
Just in terms of healing I think it was a missed opportunity for both Princes but especially Harry being younger with a more pronounced trauma overall to deal with than others. He has spoken of being in less than a great way for a considerable time. When realizing and discussing the problem with his brother back then, William recommended he seek professional therapy for it.

Therapists are helpful, but you can't buy what Paul would have given, not only relating to the loss, but intuitively feel the pain on many levels. And since he was a basket case himself, both would surely have improved over a period of several months, or perhaps years. Even today they would benefit by getting together or talking once in a while.

Harry would shock the monarchy and nation to the core if he ever did that.
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  #264  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:51 PM
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I'm sorry but that is a huge NOOO! Paul could give neither William or Harry anything, he is obsessed with feeling important and that's the only thing he wants from them. What Harry needed wad therapy not some backstabbing servant obsessed with his dead mother.
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  #265  
Old 07-27-2018, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elan View Post
Just in terms of healing I think it was a missed opportunity for both Princes but especially Harry being younger with a more pronounced trauma overall to deal with than others. He has spoken of being in less than a great way for a considerable time. When realizing and discussing the problem with his brother back then, William recommended he seek professional therapy for it.

Therapists are helpful, but you can't buy what Paul would have given, not only relating to the loss, but intuitively feel the pain on many levels. And since he was a basket case himself, both would surely have improved over a period of several months, or perhaps years. Even today they would benefit by getting together or talking once in a while.

Harry would shock the monarchy and nation to the core if he ever did that.
what on earhth would "Pau have given?" he was and is a bit of an obsessive mixed up person, harldy ideal to be a therapeutic figure.
and I don't know why youre' sayng that Paul could have helped him but OTOH that Harry would have shocked the nation if he had had talked to Paul. if he did so, who would know abuot it? Would people really be shocked if he did occasionally talk to his mother's butler, even if Paul was disgraced?
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  #266  
Old 07-27-2018, 01:12 AM
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Given Diana's ways with people I do believe Paul Burrell and she were friends.

There is a tendency to see the class difference and the employer/employee relationship as precluding friendship, but I don't think Diana saw it that way. Like with James Hewitt, Diana pulled her male friends into her circle wherever they came from and her sons would have known Paul Burrell like they knew James Hewitt. It's a shame that perceived protocols (royal class distinctions) preclude the normalcy of maintaining connections with people from the young princes' childhoods. I think it would be helpful (for them) to be able to chat with such people.
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  #267  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:02 AM
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Diana and Burrell were friends to a certain extent as Paul ran Diana's's household very well and knew a certain amount of her private business. In the end though he was still an employee, albeit a trusted one. She hardly went around socialising with him, nor did he sit at her dinner table as a guest.

As for William and Harry having chats with Burrell as adults, I think they made their feelings about him known years ago when they issued that statement reproving him for writing his book about their mother. I think they regarded it as treacherous and I believe they still have that opinion (as they would about other ex royal staff who have done the same thing.)
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  #268  
Old 07-27-2018, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Given Diana's ways with people I do believe Paul Burrell and she were friends.

There is a tendency to see the class difference and the employer/employee relationship as precluding friendship, but I don't think Diana saw it that way. Like with James Hewitt, Diana pulled her male friends into her circle wherever they came from and her sons would have known Paul Burrell like they knew James Hewitt. It's a shame that perceived protocols (royal class distinctions) preclude the normalcy of maintaining connections with people from the young princes' childhoods. I think it would be helpful (for them) to be able to chat with such people.
Both William and Harry did find such a person and their relationship with her continues to this day. In fact, when Harry and Meghan visited Wales, Harry made a side trip to her place to introduce Meghan. She was a big support system to the boys not only after the divorce but, I believe, it continued through the years.

I'm talking about Tiggy Legge-Bourke.

Paul Burrell did efficiently run Diana's household but I think he was mainly in the background of "staff" when William and Harry were at home with Diana. They didn't interact with Paul as they interacted with Tiggy. Paul may have worked for Diana but if and when the boys needed someone to talk to, I think they would have turned to Tiggy quite a bit more. That was her job. To be there for the boys.
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  #269  
Old 07-27-2018, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
There is a tendency to see the class difference and the employer/employee relationship as precluding friendship, but I don't think Diana saw it that way. Like with James Hewitt, Diana pulled her male friends into her circle wherever they came from and her sons would have known Paul Burrell like they knew James Hewitt. It's a shame that perceived protocols (royal class distinctions) preclude the normalcy of maintaining connections with people from the young princes' childhoods. I think it would be helpful (for them) to be able to chat with such people.
That was great. One thing that would give me 'pause' in a chance meeting or befriending a royal, would be knowing that a technical violation could destroy the acquaintance in less time than it took to have breakfast. The protocol is no laughing matter, certainly.

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Would people really be shocked if he did occasionally talk to his mother's butler, even if Paul was disgraced?
After years of no contact with him, it would be very unexpected.
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  #270  
Old 07-27-2018, 02:11 PM
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Of course it would be unexpected because the way Paul behaved, it was unlikely that ay member of Diana's family would want any contact with him..
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  #271  
Old 07-27-2018, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Elan View Post
That was great. One thing that would give me 'pause' in a chance meeting or befriending a royal, would be knowing that a technical violation could destroy the acquaintance in less time than it took to have breakfast. The protocol is no laughing matter, certainly.
Quite so. Why invest? They must lose, or miss out, on a lot of cool friendships. But totally understand, too.
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  #272  
Old 08-02-2018, 12:37 AM
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I think that I can guess how that would go, assuming that Harry would ever talk to Paul about his late mother.

1) Paul would somehow make it known that Harry had talked to him but that he "will never reveal what Prince Harry told me."

2) Paul appears on t.v. to drop a couple of tidbits about what Harry said to him and then add that Harry told him much more that he'll never divulge.

3) Paul writes a book about his always-close relationship with Prince Harry detailing amusing, touching, and embarrassing episodes about him from Paul's time as Diana's butler. The last chapter of the book will express Paul's disappointment about all the years that Harry froze him out, reiterating that he knows many things that he will never tell.

4) Paul follows up with a newspaper article in which he tells what Harry told him, in detail, during their private conversation.

5) Harry issues a statement in which he says that he feels betrayed by Paul.

6) Paul counter-issues a statement in which he says that he's hurt by Harry's suggestion that he betrayed him and hints that he could have said much more but didn't because he didn't want to harm Diana's memory.












Quote:
Originally Posted by Elan View Post
Therapists are helpful, but you can't buy what Paul would have given, not only relating to the loss, but intuitively feel the pain on many levels. And since he was a basket case himself, both would surely have improved over a period of several months, or perhaps years. Even today they would benefit by getting together or talking once in a while.
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  #273  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:06 AM
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sounds pretty accurate
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  #274  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I think that I can guess how that would go, assuming that Harry would ever talk to Paul about his late mother.

1) Paul would somehow make it known that Harry had talked to him but that he "will never reveal what Prince Harry told me."

2) Paul appears on t.v. to drop a couple of tidbits about what Harry said to him and then add that Harry told him much more that he'll never divulge.

3) Paul writes a book about his always-close relationship with Prince Harry detailing amusing, touching, and embarrassing episodes about him from Paul's time as Diana's butler. The last chapter of the book will express Paul's disappointment about all the years that Harry froze him out, reiterating that he knows many things that he will never tell.

4) Paul follows up with a newspaper article in which he tells what Harry told him, in detail, during their private conversation.

5) Harry issues a statement in which he says that he feels betrayed by Paul.

6) Paul counter-issues a statement in which he says that he's hurt by Harry's suggestion that he betrayed him and hints that he could have said much more but didn't because he didn't want to harm Diana's memory.


So accurate. Makes one wonder why Paul didn't fly into California or Mexico to propose a book deal to Old Tom Markle, where they'd spin their tales of Maghan and Harry's childhoods....
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  #275  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:58 PM
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Shhhhhhhh! They might see this and think that it's a good idea!
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  #276  
Old 08-03-2018, 06:53 PM
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Obviously the view that he deserves to be ostracized will not fade out all by itself. Someday, when he's no longer around, it's possible his writing will receive reviews nearly as glorious as Crawfie's does today. To his credit, he concedes not coming from a keen intellect or education. Most people lead with the head and the heart follows, though not everyone follows that paradigm. This may be why Diana held him in such high regard, elaborating on various burdens she faced yet interested to know how he felt about them. According to Rosa, it surprised her how many of his judgements proved to be sound.

Some good arguments made here, but it's hard to see how family would not benefit hearing first hand accounts of their mother --- directly from him.

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  #277  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Elan View Post
Obviously the view that he deserves to be ostracized will not fade out all by itself. Someday, when he's no longer around, it's possible his writing will receive reviews nearly as glorious as Crawfie's does today. To his credit, he concedes not coming from a keen intellect or education. Most people lead with the head and the heart follows, though not everyone follows that paradigm. This may be why Diana held him in such high regard, elaborating on various burdens she faced yet interested to know how he felt about them. According to Rosa, it surprised her how many of his judgements proved to be sound.

Some good arguments made here, but it's hard to see how family would not benefit hearing first hand accounts of their mother --- directly from him.

I think that the family knew Diana rather better than a butler who only wroked fro her for a few years could do. And Its news to me that miss Crawfords writing receives "glorious reviews"....
I don't know what you mean by the first sentence, since most posters on this forum appear to think that he should certainly be left alone by the RF and ignored by the public...
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  #278  
Old 08-04-2018, 02:59 AM
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If you have the chance, click reviews in the five star category (70%). Seldom will you read such glowing reviews of any author. Worth browsing :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
She wrote a book called "The Little Princesses". A total no no in the royal world even then.

https://www.amazon.com/Little-Prince...AZ3KW7S0AFH721
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  #279  
Old 08-04-2018, 04:25 AM
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a butler who only wroked fro her for a few years...
If his time had been "a few years" I might see your point, but NINE ??? ..Big difference.
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  #280  
Old 08-04-2018, 05:42 AM
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If his time had been "a few years" I might see your point, but NINE ??? ..Big difference.
yes the big difference is that they were her sons who knew her intimately. He was a servant who worked for her for some few years, only a few as a close member of staff. I believe that when the Waleses separated Paul was not pleased to be allocated to Diana as it meant leaving the country where he was happly living with his family....
ANd why on earth shold the boys need him to tell them about their own mother? or why should they show friendship to someone who only showed disloyalty to her...
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