Last Hours, Death, Transfer from France, Funeral and Interment

[sirhon11234]

Wow thats amazing.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. Without the lead, heat inside the coffin begins to decay the body, the wood decomposes and then the elements can get to the body which begins to decompose quite quickly. The lead keeps the body cool and suspends natural decomposition - hence perfectly preserved corpses which can then be passed off as 'incorrupt' or 'saintly'.

 

[Skydragon]

Customs do not normally check things on the way OUT of a country.

I can assure you, from experience, that any box or coffin containing a corpse being flown back to Britain is opened before it is put on any RAF, ordinary or chartered plane, royal or not. It is checked by customs before it is loaded. The glass window was allowed for Diana, for some unknown reason.

Every country checks your baggage and person when leaving the country, a box/coffin is no different.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Well I guess it would have been considered disrespectful to open the coffin at two customs points considering the public mood at the time and so the glass window allowed her to remain undisturbed whilst at the same time being practical.

 

[Skydragon]

I must look suspicious, customs always checks my bags and person when I am checked in!

 

[BeatrixFan]

Do you travel with a coffin though?

 

[Skydragon]

Do you travel with a coffin though?

As little as possible!

 

[TheTruth]

Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. Without the lead, heat inside the coffin begins to decay the body, the wood decomposes and then the elements can get to the body which begins to decompose quite quickly. The lead keeps the body cool and suspends natural decomposition - hence perfectly preserved corpses which can then be passed off as 'incorrupt' or 'saintly'.

The comparison of Diana, the Pope and chocolate sounds like a surrealist painting lol.
It's indeed the cold that makes a body stay in state. Cryopreservation shows that very well (Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) although if you'd wished that you could reanimate Diana, there's no chance :

"Human cryopreservation is not currently reversible"

(link => Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Moreover, her body wasn't prepared to such a possible experience. It should have been put at 77 K or −196 °C so as to preserve the cells, the brain and the whole blood system.

 

[Skydragon]

Well it's an easy experiment to do actually. If you put a square of milk chocolate in a box with holes in the lid and check on it in a few months, it'll have gone white and stale. If you do the same in an airtight box, the chocolate will stay the same and will still be edible. It's the lead that serves this effect on a corpse. .

It is supposed that a combination of hermetic sealing and the action of lead compounds from the coffin itself cause the action of putrefaction to slow.

Another reason Diana was given a lead lined casket, was to ensure that should the Island flood, it would not be likely to rise up with flood water. The Oak will, I think have already started to come away from the lead.

Diana's coffin, apparently weighed 50 stone (700lbs), which sounds heavy but my BMW in full dress weighs 22 stone (308lbs).

 

[GillW]

It is supposed that a combination of hermetic sealing and the action of lead compounds from the coffin itself cause the action of putrefaction to slow.

Another reason Diana was given a lead lined casket, was to ensure that should the Island flood, it would not be likely to rise up with flood water. The Oak will, I think have already started to come away from the lead.

Diana's coffin, apparently weighed 50 stone (700lbs), which sounds heavy but my BMW in full dress weighs 22 stone (308lbs).

That island cannot flood and is not waterlogged. If that land was to flood then the whole of Althorp estate would be under water - in fact probably most of Northamptonshire too!

That is a false lake made from a concrete basin and the island is piled earth from that excavation heaped into the centre ring of the "basin" - think of a circular "jelly-mould" construction. This is a manufactured and carefully managed landscape feature, and not a natural soggy hollow with a lump in the middle - that's why its called The Round Oval.

If in doubt go to Google Earth & search for Althorp, Northampton - you can zoom in quite close & see that very clearly (besides which I have been several times, including before the previous Earl died, when the Oval was deserted and rather unkempt - but very lovely anyway)

 

[Skydragon]

That island cannot flood and is not waterlogged. If that land was to flood then the whole of Althorp estate would be under water - in fact probably most of Northamptonshire too!

I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

Such man-made lakes are quite common nowadays when they build motorways through areas where little creeks are. In case of flooding, these lakes are filled first and take all the water, so the streets are not flooded.

We just had such a lake build here in addition to the existing ones (the motorway runs along the northern shore of the Ammersee-lake and was put into a tunnel under our village green to protect the village from the noise). But because there is the lake and acreek coming from the mountains they had to build a new lake to offer even better protection for the tunnel and the village from flooding). I took the opportunity while walking my dog to talk to an engineer supervising the works there and asked him about the lake at Althorp.

He said that when there is an island in the lake, the problem with the water does not come not from the lake itself but from the ground water which cannot go up on the base of the lake due to the concrete sealing but is pressured to mount in the soil of the island. He said it depended on how wet the climate is there and how plain the area is around the gardens of Althorp. If there were heavy rains and Althorp was situated in a valley chances are that the island is flooded from below the ground, even though the rest of the gardens could stay relatively dry. He said that one could see that on looking at the vegetation of the gardens and compare it to the vegetation of the island.

If the island was very mossy instead of having grass on it or has trees that grow in rather wet soils then the island is endangered of being flooded. But even then you could bury somebody there on introducing a concrete foundation for the coffin instead of just lower it into the earth. But still it would be a wet place...

 

[GillW]

I was aware that the island was a man made feature, but even they can get the drainage blocked. When people pile earth into any construction, concrete or not, it can get waterlogged and even trees can start to float, when burying Diana's casket, it would seem they took all possible precautions. I specifically put 'should the island flood', knowing that it would be unlikely for the whole of Althorp and/or Northampton to flood and that the feature was just a concrete bowl, (which could deteriorate over the years).

Can I just clarify a couple of points?

The Round Oval is very old and was not designed nor constructed purposely for the burial of Diana nor anyone else.

Quote from Althorp House Garden - a Gardens Guide review -

"The Round Oval, as the lake is known, was cleaned out and re-filled in 1868. The Summerhouse at the lakeside was bought in 1901 by John Poyntz, Fifth Earl Spencer for Charlotte Spencer who wished to have it erected in the pleasure grounds. The Summerhouse was moved to the south of the Round Oval in 1926 where it stands today, dedicated to the memory of Diana, Princess of Wales. Diana was buried on the island in the Round Oval in 1997 - it is a peculiarly appropriate spot and attracts large numbers of visitors"

It is quite hard to describe how it is constructed but please do not think of it as a simple saucer-type of bowl with a pile of soil in the centre. You have to imagine the kind of doughnut-shape-in-reverse (see this illustration: http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/gillweb/jellymould.jpg) the "island" in the centre is quite outside of the concrete structure, in exactly the same way as are the surrounding paths. I can't think of another way of describing it.

Because of this the trees etc are not planted into "earth piled into the construction" (pardon the paraphrase), but directly into the good solid Northamptonshire earth, and surrounded by a hoop-shaped pool. The type & size of trees which are there could not grow in the other circumstances.

The drainage for the water in the pool is an easily accessible grating at each of the ends and these are well maintained and cleaned so there is no build up of debris to cause any kind of blockage or overflowing onto the land area of the central island - which is actually a little higher than the surrounding pathways.

Hope this helps everyone visualise the construction and to understand that the earth where Diana lies is firm & dry just like the rest of the Althorp estate.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Can I just clarify a couple of points?


Hope this helps everyone visualise the construction and to understand that the earth where Diana lies is firm & dry just like the rest of the Althorp estate.

Thank you for the explanation. still, I think the point the engineer talked about is valid: once you seal of part of the surrounding soil with concrete, the rest of the "open" land attracts more ground water when it rises due to strong rainfalls. Thus, the island could potentially flood from within after strong rain but that's not the constant situation but only occassionally so - just like normal graveyards sometimes are "land under".

I accept that the idea with the isalnd was probably a good one in order to keep people from coming to close to Diana's grave, but still - the island was used to bury the dead pets of the Spencer's and now there is allegedly the grave of the mother of the future king? If they had erected a little chapel there with a crypt for Diana, I could believe in the story but the way it is it is suspicious for me. I for one wouldn't have buried my brother on such an island as if he was a pet of mine....

I still believe Diana's body was removed and replaced with stones or something else and then Earl Spencer took the Royal standart for her real grave and put his sister's body into another coffin or a case which could be used as such till it was possible to remove her from Althorp and bury her wherever. I'm convinced prince Charles and William and Harry were not informed but at a later point.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The comparison of Diana, the Pope and chocolate sounds like a surrealist painting lol.
It's indeed the cold that makes a body stay in state. Cryopreservation shows that very well (Cryopreservation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) although if you'd wished that you could reanimate Diana, there's no chance : (link => Cryonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Moreover, her body wasn't prepared to such a possible experience. It should have been put at 77 K or −196 °C so as to preserve the cells, the brain and the whole blood system.

I thought that once you were dead that was it even with cryogenics. Don't you have to be frozen whilst alive so you can be defrosted later? If cryogenics don't work once you're dead then Walt Disney must be turning in his fridge.

 

[PR Princess]

I know she met some celebrities, but I was wondering did she meet all those celebrities who went to her funeral? The famous I know was Elton John who was her good friend.

 

[PR Princess]

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=23668&n_tit=Karjat%3A+NRI+Dr+Arjun+Gaur+Creates+Princess+Diana+Island



http://www.cambridgeindia.com/

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6613/dianastatue13xe.gif

That is so nice, I would like to go there. I didn't even know they made a tribute statue of her, and in India...now that speculation her memory will never live long in the future, is definitely false.

 

[TheTruth]

I thought that once you were dead that was it even with cryogenics. Don't you have to be frozen whilst alive so you can be defrosted later? If cryogenics don't work once you're dead then Walt Disney must be turning in his fridge.

Lol. I think it would be possible to bring someone to life and, with the technology of the future, cure the wounds of a person who died in an accidental way like Diana. But I'm not doctor so it's just a guess ...

 

[Christo's Girl]

I know she met some celebrities, but I was wondering did she meet all those celebrities who went to her funeral? The famous I know was Elton John who was her good friend.

That is one question I too have still today. For instance, how well did she really know someone like Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman? I can't help thinking that if Diana had passed away in 2007 not 1997 the world would have seen a much different funeral. The boys would have known who to invite and who not too. Her resting place may have been different as well.

Do you think if the William and Harry ever requested that her remains be moved to the family crypt or somewhere else he would comply?

 

[sirhon11234]

Spencer would have to she is their mother.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It depends on the executors of her estate I believe.

 

[Skydragon]

now that speculation her memory will never live long in the future, is definitely false.

That must be why so many children, youths and adults pass the statues in London and have no idea who they are of. It is sad, but that's life.

Do you think if the William and Harry ever requested that her remains be moved to the family crypt or somewhere else he would comply?

I think it unlikely that any of them would want to disturb her final 'resting place'. By the time William is old enough to have any say in digging up and then burying the body anywhere else, I would think they will have accepted that her corpse is better left at rest in the artificial island.

It would not just be a case of them deciding to dig up and relocate the body, they would have to apply for permission from the authorities and in 20 -30 years who knows whether the government would approve.

 

[BeatrixFan]

She isn't buried in the ground though is she? I thought she was in a tomb thing.

 

[sirhon11234]

I thought Diana was buried in the ground.

 

[Russophile]

I think the idea was that they (Earl Spencer) didn't WANT you to know whether she was in a tomb or ground.

 

[Skydragon]

She isn't buried in the ground though is she? I thought she was in a tomb thing.

From what I remember reading, at the time, there was not time to line the grave with concrete, but they were making a lining of brick, (available for extra even in public cemetarys) or granite/marble, (again available in public cemetarys).

It is still a below ground grave and to remove the corpse or casket, they would have to apply to the Home Office, therefore it would be reliant on how the government of the day feels.

Once Harry reaches 25, the executors of her estate have no further input into any decisions, they are only there to facilitate her orders with regard to distribution of her money and property. Had she specifically asked to be cremated, they and the family were under no obligation to follow her wishes, the same way that they decided to give her godchildren gifts, rather than money! When writing a will it pays to be absolutely specific about what you want to leave and in what form.

 

[Skydragon]

Thank you for the explanation. still, I think the point the engineer talked about is valid: once you seal of part off the surrounding soil with concrete, the rest of the "open" land attracts more ground water when it rises due to strong rainfalls. Thus, the island could potentially flood from within after strong rain but that's not the constant situation but only occassionally so - just like normal graveyards sometimes are "land under".

Absolutely right Jo. The explantion given also does not cover the points that anyone with a knowledge of the concepts behind landscaping would know, namely that any concrete structure is 1. Reliant on the substrate. 2. The Rebar. 3. Oxidisation
If the Rebar becomes oxidised, it starts to expand, (this has been a problem with many artificial lakes or islands). 4. Those naughty tree roots that have a habit of destroying many man made structures.

When burying Diana, they had to look at all and any possibilities, one of which would have included, IMO, the possibility of a rare occurence, such as excessive water being unable to drain or soak away!

 

[Princess B]

does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

 

[TheTruth]

does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

From this website, here's a few people who attended the funeral :

Lady Hillary Clinton, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, former premiers, including John Major and Margaret Thatcher, have been invited -- as has a New Jersey couple who once hired Diana as a babysitter in London for their 1-year-old son before she entered the royal spotlight, New York's WCBS radio reports. Elton John, a close friend of the princess's, plans to be at the service but denied reports he had been invited to sing, saying that decision was still "up in the air."

Of course, we can add her former lover Hasnat Khan, Luciano Pavarotti and his wife, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman, Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks, ... .

 

[GillW]

does anyone have a list of people who attended the funeral?

Do you mean everyone at the funeral service in London, or just those at the graveside burial at Althorp?