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  #1381  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:57 AM
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From the standpoint of a pleasant evening, I don't see what the flat offered them as a romantic couple vs Ritz location and staff. Otoh, their idea to dine at a small restaurant was very nice, though the plan fell apart as photographers arrived before them. Still you wonder at times had they attempted to sit at a table after various pics were taken, wind things down a few notches and in some way, shape, or form, made the best of it..
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  #1382  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:19 PM
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Diana's sisters publicly stated she "religiously" buckled up. So I think something was amiss with those seatbelts. Also those who worked for her like Wharfe commented she buckled up. Even though the mechanism might have worked perhaps the belt itself did not stretch so it reached around her. The car was deployed at the last minute and the security Guard has amnesia and cannot remember. I think the slow trip to the hospital was what doomed her and the amount of time it took for her to get help since the "first responders" were the paparazzi.
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  #1383  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Rayal View Post
I should mention that the Mercedes-Benz W140 involved in the crash was owned by Etoile Limousines and they had parked it in the parking building next to the Ritz. The paparazzi knew the license plate number by heart of Dodi's Mercedes-Benz W140 and they used it as a decoy and parked it out front of the hotel. The second Mercedes-Benz W140 from the parking garage was never used before this night. Its history was that it had been in a major crash two years before. It then was stolen and stripped. Rebuilt again and Etoile Limousines bought it, Since the crash a Mr. Musa owns it but it is still in French police custody. Mr. Musa wants to put it in a museum here in the states. Personally I would like to see it completely and privately destroyed for the sake of her two sons and for all the families involved.





That's awful and I agree with you that it should be destroyed. That would be a gruesome exhibit IMHO hopefully the police will still retain custody.


Unfortunately we'll never know why the occupants chose not to put on their seatbelts that fateful night.
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  #1384  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Sandy345 View Post
Diana's sisters publicly stated she "religiously" buckled up. So I think something was amiss with those seatbelts. Also those who worked for her like Wharfe commented she buckled up. Even though the mechanism might have worked perhaps the belt itself did not stretch so it reached around her. The car was deployed at the last minute and the security Guard has amnesia and cannot remember. I think the slow trip to the hospital was what doomed her and the amount of time it took for her to get help since the "first responders" were the paparazzi.
If the belt did not fit around her then the belt did not work and she would have realised that as soon as she tried to fasten it. And there is no evidence that any of the belts were pulled out...
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  #1385  
Old 01-01-2021, 01:36 PM
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Totally agree the car should be destroyed.


Also think it is possible in the chaos she forgot to buckle up or if she did the buckle never fully seated into the base. I had wondered if it came undone on impact, the imoact being so forceful.

There has been controversy (I read some docs say she coukd of survived if she had been taken asap to the hospital and surgery)about the methods used by the French when it cones to triage like that, but we will never know.


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  #1386  
Old 01-01-2021, 06:11 PM
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She was taken the hospital as quickly as possible. It took time for an ambulance and fire fighters to get there, it took time to extricate her from the car and it took time to stabilise her....
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  #1387  
Old 01-01-2021, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She was taken the hospital as quickly as possible. It took time for an ambulance and fire fighters to get there, it took time to extricate her from the car and it took time to stabilise her....
To my understanding it took well over an hour to get Diana to the hospital AFTER she was in the ambulance due to the triage procedures in that country. In the US they get them to the hospital asap (scoop and run) in order to get them into surgery right away.


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  #1388  
Old 01-01-2021, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
To my understanding it took well over an hour to get Diana to the hospital AFTER she was in the ambulance due to the triage procedures in that country. In the US they get them to the hospital asap (scoop and run) in order to get them into surgery right away.


LaRae
If I'm not mistaken, i believe I've read where it took quite a while to reach the hospital because they had to actually stop the ambulance and perform life saving measures to keep her heart beating. From my own EMT training and knowing of incidences here, there *are* times where it's imperative to stop completely in order to resuscitate a patient en route to the hospital.
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  #1389  
Old 01-01-2021, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
To my understanding it took well over an hour to get Diana to the hospital AFTER she was in the ambulance due to the triage procedures in that country. In the US they get them to the hospital asap (scoop and run) in order to get them into surgery right away.


LaRae
Emergency is emergency , what on earth are you talking about ?
She went on cardiac arrest on site and had to be stabilise. The ambulance left the scene a 1.41AM and arrived at the Hospital 20 mins later ...
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  #1390  
Old 01-01-2021, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If I'm not mistaken, i believe I've read where it took quite a while to reach the hospital because they had to actually stop the ambulance and perform life saving measures to keep her heart beating. From my own EMT training and knowing of incidences here, there *are* times where it's imperative to stop completely in order to resuscitate a patient en route to the hospital.
Totally right Osipi, they had to stop the Ambulance 5 mins because Diana had a drop in blood pressure.
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  #1391  
Old 01-01-2021, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Emergency is emergency , what on earth are you talking about ?
She went on cardiac arrest on site and had to be stabilise. The ambulance left the scene a 1.41AM and arrived at the Hospital 20 mins later ...
Actually, Pranter is correct with naming the "scoop and run' method and it is widely practiced here in the US. All emergency personnel are very familiar with it and also with the concept of the "golden hour'. Sometimes though, it's absolutely necessary to stop completely if measures are called for it to even get the patient to the hospital alive.

The golden hour: The first 60 minutes after traumatic injury has been termed the “golden hour.”1 The concept that definitive trauma care must be initiated within this 60-minute window has been promulgated, taught, and practiced for more than 3 decades; the belief that injury outcomes improve with a reduction in time to definitive care

Scoop and Run: A stance taken when a trauma victim's condition is of such severity that there is (1) Insufficient time for the usual format of medical stabilization and/or (2) The equipment and/or experts needed to save the victim's life are not present in the ambulatory field unit—e.g., ambulance or helicopter.
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  #1392  
Old 01-01-2021, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Actually, Pranter is correct with naming the "scoop and run' method and it is widely practiced here in the US. All emergency personnel are very familiar with it and also with the concept of the "golden hour'. Sometimes though, it's absolutely necessary to stop completely if measures are called for it to even get the patient to the hospital alive.

The golden hour: The first 60 minutes after traumatic injury has been termed the “golden hour.”1 The concept that definitive trauma care must be initiated within this 60-minute window has been promulgated, taught, and practiced for more than 3 decades; the belief that injury outcomes improve with a reduction in time to definitive care

Scoop and Run: A stance taken when a trauma victim's condition is of such severity that there is (1) Insufficient time for the usual format of medical stabilization and/or (2) The equipment and/or experts needed to save the victim's life are not present in the ambulatory field unit—e.g., ambulance or helicopter.
The Method used in France is the "Stay and Play", as the patient has to be stabilized before the run to the hospital. In Diana's case, it took more than one hour to get her out of the car and , in the meantime, she had a cardiac arrest on site and had to be intubated. She had to be stabilzed a second time during the run to the hospital, albeit the 5 mins stop. An Anaesthetist Resuscitator was in the amulance the whole time.
So it did'nt take "well over one hour" as stated above to take Diana to the hospital, but 20 mins, including the 5 mins stop.
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  #1393  
Old 01-01-2021, 10:44 PM
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With this conversation, I think we're able to realize just how stressful the job of an emergency worker is. One has to make split second decisions on the best move to make for the patient and there's no "one method suits all" standard operating procedure that works for each emergency run.

in Diana's case, her injuries were not only traumatic but bordering on what happened to Dodi. Instant death. From what I read, the emergency workers that handled Diana's injuries were very well trained and did the best possible life saving methods that they could. It also sounds like the ambulance was very well equipped to handle the situation also.

The fact that she did remain alive for such a long (long as in this case and her injuries) is a testament to the emergency workers that handled her and they should be lauded for their efforts.
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  #1394  
Old 01-01-2021, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
With this conversation, I think we're able to realize just how stressful the job of an emergency worker is. One has to make split second decisions on the best move to make for the patient and there's no "one method suits all" standard operating procedure that works for each emergency run.

in Diana's case, her injuries were not only traumatic but bordering on what happened to Dodi. Instant death. From what I read, the emergency workers that handled Diana's injuries were very well trained and did the best possible life saving methods that they could. It also sounds like the ambulance was very well equipped to handle the situation also.

The fact that she did remain alive for such a long (long as in this case and her injuries) is a testament to the emergency workers that handled her and they should be lauded for their efforts.
Very well said, thank you.
We all know how revolting and frustrating those kind of tragics deaths are. Afterward there are always a good amount of easy " could have" and "should have" only there to ad some controversy in an already dramatic situation.
Diana was indeed in the best possible hands that night , according to a proved method. Sadly it wasnt enough to save her ...
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  #1395  
Old 01-01-2021, 11:16 PM
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The saddest remark that comes to mind for me thinking back to the aftermath of the Paris crash was the lone statement made by Dr. Hasnat Khan, who had recently (somewhat) become estranged from Diana. Being a heart and lung surgeon, he was quoted as saying "I could have saved her".

To be honest, I do believe that everything possible was done for Diana but her injuries were just too severe.
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  #1396  
Old 01-02-2021, 03:20 AM
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According to the French surgeons that operated on her, they tried massaging the heart for nearly two hours. However, what they had not known at those crucial minutes was a small tear in the left pulmonary vein. As she was thrown forward she hit the frame of the front seat back. That is mounted solid to the floor frame and does not give and is not cushioned. This impact threw her heart to the right side of her chest and that tore the vein. Doctors have stated that they had seen several damaged hearts from crashes but it was extremely rare to see this particular tear. Also it was facing towards her back and hidden from sight. This is why Dr. Khan was confident he could have saved her and I like to believe that he could of as he had knowledge of this sort of damage. One other thing to consider. When ever you try to click a seat belt into the receiver and it touches metal to metal it registers in the ECM. So if you tried it several times and did not successfully connect the belt in solid it records all of that. So according to Operation Paget there had been no such attempt to connect her seat belt as well as none of the seat belts...it just never was done. We will never no why. She is looking down on me and saying, "Don't be such a Webster."
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  #1397  
Old 01-02-2021, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Totally right Osipi, they had to stop the Ambulance 5 mins because Diana had a drop in blood pressure.
Yes I dont know how many times this has been stated.. She went into cardiac arrest when they took her from the car and had to be stabilised. Then they had to stop en route to give her CPR.
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  #1398  
Old 01-02-2021, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The saddest remark that comes to mind for me thinking back to the aftermath of the Paris crash was the lone statement made by Dr. Hasnat Khan, who had recently (somewhat) become estranged from Diana. Being a heart and lung surgeon, he was quoted as saying "I could have saved her".

To be honest, I do believe that everything possible was done for Diana but her injuries were just too severe.
Knowing the time the Mercedes required and noting that crews apparently did not elect to remove the top of the car.. by literally sawing at the four corners, and lifting it off. Conjecture..but once that's off, occupants are exposed to the crew. We know that grind cutoff wheels create much in way of sparks, and for that reason may not be preferred with fuel in the vicinity. Speedwise it's very good. For discussion sake, if occupants are out in 10 - 15 minutes, a medical helicopter lands, somehow gets them to a hospital 5 min later, a window of time is saved. ..If that changes anything, however.
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  #1399  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:00 AM
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I've actually taken a course in auto extrication and what you present is pretty much how it works. The scenario I played a part in was a passenger in the back seat to be extricated (with my husband the other passenger in the back seat). it did take quite a while for them to actually remove parts of the car to get us out and transferred us to backboards. All that time though, we were securely covered by a blanket. Let me also mention there were quite a bit of ribald comments yelled at us and catcalls and whistles (fun group to train with).

I actually did have to be extricated from my car after I underbellied a semi but unfortunately, i can't remember how long it took or what they did. They got me out safely though.

It does make complete sense that different scenarios would require different methods especially if there is a gas leakage from the vehicle.
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  #1400  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:07 AM
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I presume that teh firemen knew what they were doing and used hte safest method to open up the car.
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