The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1141  
Old 06-23-2017, 12:29 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Well, there certainly seems to be a double standard going in with regard to Harry in comparison to his brother going on by some posters including yourself, in which Harry is to be condemned for indiscretion in speaking about this, when both William and Harry have spoken openly in recent times about their mother and the effect it had on them. [...] Harry gets hammered for being indiscreet, in talking about the walk behind the cortège with you specifically citing his past behaviour, and his brother gets a pass. Fair? I don't think so!
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
So, I ask again, if William imparts his feelings in the upcoming documentaries about his mother and her passing, and his opinion about HIS walk on that day, is he going to be equally condemned for being 'indiscreet' and how he shouldn't speak about such things, or is he going to get a pass and Harry be blamed?
Dunno. Not my thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Perhaps, in spite of the sensibilities of some posters here, both men want to speak about that week and the impact it had on them. Perhaps both want to be honest about their feelings as young royals walking behind their mother's coffin. Perhaps they both want to get the information out into the public arena about how they felt and feel about their beloved mother's passing. Also, if they don't wish to include their father in these memories, then that surely is up to them, not us. And I emphasise them, not just one brother.
Now this I can speak to because it is exactly this kind of thing that made Diana such an issue for the BRF. If Diana was more discreet it is probable that she would still be the Princess of Wales and would be Queen one day.

If William and Harry both start down that thorny road of 'sharing' their private lives with the public, I predict that King Charles will be Britain's last monarch.
__________________

__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #1142  
Old 06-23-2017, 03:21 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Denville, in your previous post you've pointed out something intrinsically important that jumps out at me.

One thing that was very much a positive is the way they all did fall in together to support each other during the funeral. Philip, which a lot of people grew to understand could not abide Diana and her actions, walked. Charles, the ex-husband free after a very acrimonious marriage, walked. These two people realized the importance of being there for William and Harry. They weren't walking behind Diana's coffin because of a heart wrenching loss but because they were a support system for two boys who were suffering such a loss.

Same with just about everything else we discuss. Harry's openness in his interviews create both negative and positive reactions. They're both valid.
I think that Philip and Charles did walk to support the boys, because it would have been diffcult for them without someone to help them along. I think the RF wanted them to walk because it was proper protocol but they did make allowances for the fact that they were very young and it would not be easy and if they had really felt unable to face it, I think that it is a given that they would have not been pressurised. And I think that Phil was right, if he said that WIll would regret it if he didn't, I think he would have felt bad afterwards..but it was hard for them to do.
But given that they DID manage to find a way of coping, and had the support of their father and grandfather, I think that they shoudl now let any negative feelings they have about the walk go, and not allude to them later on, for the publc who don't need to know this. but well harry aint very bright.. and I can't help feeling that the whole Heads togehter thing seems to be bringing out this confessional streak in them.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1143  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:00 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,650
I don't see Harry as a not so bright person but I also see a willingness to perhaps to be a tad bit too open. Many, many places Harry has been described as wearing his heart on his sleeve and it shows with his interactions with people. He's open, he's caring, he gets down to their level and communicates.

Harry has also said that he's kept things inside and buried for a very long time and its just recently that he's found the freedom to talk about his trials and tribulations that keeping things pushed back somewhere where the sun don't shine and that wasn't healthy. He's had a breakthrough and its a spurt of emotional growth for him. With that comes the work towards emotional maturity that needs to continue and its an ongoing challenge that sometimes takes a lifetime.

Even with the best of intentions of his words, he runs the risk of being misinterpreted by other people. That's something he probably still has to master. I do agree with you that the hurts and the feelings experienced 20 years ago by both William and Harry personally with their mother's death isn't something that should be hitting every tabloid in the world regardless of what the good intentions of doing it would be. If they were addressing a group of people in grief counseling without the press and cameras on a private basis, that would be a good venue perhaps but not something for all and sundry to hash and rehash over and over and over again.

As I said before, perhaps this latest "revelation" will be something that Harry will look back on and wish he hadn't done. I think his intentions were in the right place but the results from it totally missed the mark. Mistakes are how one learns what *not* to do in the future.

Trust me on this. I've made more than my share of mistakes. They all seemed like the right thing to do at the time though.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #1144  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:06 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,491
well Osipi we're getting a bit OT here I suppose but you've just said it.. if Harry IS feeling an emotional rush about his Mum's death now, with the 20th Anniversary coming up, that's understandable.. and its good problaby for him to talk about it.. but to FRIENDS, to his brother, his girlfriend.. even his dad and grandparents. (or a therapist) NOOOT to the press. let Di be remembered for her sweet nature and her love for her boys, not for the rows that erupted.
Reply With Quote
  #1145  
Old 06-23-2017, 04:17 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 15,650
In some cultures its considered uncouth to speak ill of the dead. I wish someone could wave a magic wand and cause a change in mass consciousness in this regards. Mine's in the shop.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #1146  
Old 06-23-2017, 05:49 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
well Osipi we're getting a bit OT here I suppose but you've just said it.. if Harry IS feeling an emotional rush about his Mum's death now, with the 20th Anniversary coming up, that's understandable.. and its good problaby for him to talk about it.. but to FRIENDS, to his brother, his girlfriend.. even his dad and grandparents. (or a therapist) NOOOT to the press. let Di be remembered for her sweet nature and her love for her boys, not for the rows that erupted.
Agree 100%. Well said. That was the issue with Diana. It is never a good sign when anyone starts to use the public as a shoulder to confide in. But in this instance, I'm not sure that is what Harry is doing. His motives are not clear (to me).
__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #1147  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:19 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,703
The motives may become clearer to all of us when these documentaries for the 20th anniversary appear. What the brothers say, and perhaps more importantly how they say it, will be interesting I'm sure.
Reply With Quote
  #1148  
Old 06-24-2017, 02:44 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In some cultures its considered uncouth to speak ill of the dead. I wish someone could wave a magic wand and cause a change in mass consciousness in this regards. Mine's in the shop.
again we are probably a bit OT, but while it is IMO wrong/unkind to speak ill of people who have just died, becuase they can't defend themselves and their families are at their most sad, it can't be the case as a permanet thing surely? If someone is a public figure and is "up for discussion", their faults are as much a part of their lives as their good points, so I think there's a point when one can discuss their faults provided it is done fairly and witout malice.
Reply With Quote
  #1149  
Old 06-24-2017, 03:49 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Gracefully put, thanks Osipi..

I think that the Princes' Stepmother has 'the right idea' in her silence, discretion and tact...
NO-ONE can use or misinterpret words left unsaid ! x
So amen to that !
My impression after a round of British media is that Prince Harry, who boosted his profile with the Invictus project, has now a sort of "there we go again" effect.

If I was Prince Harry's counsel, I would retreat here and keep a distance indeed. His deeply beloved mother is no more in our world. Bless her memory. And let the Princess rest in peace. Even "modern monarchy" can not do without some distance and indeed 'mystique'.
Reply With Quote
  #1150  
Old 07-26-2017, 09:54 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,824
Diana's brother says royal officials LIED to him that William and Harry wanted to walk behind their mother's coffin as he claims there have been four break-in attempts at her grave

Reply With Quote
  #1151  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:41 AM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Another version of the article--

Diana’s Brother, Earl Spencer: The Palace Lied to Me About William and Harry
Reply With Quote
  #1152  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:47 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,703
I listened to the podcast made of Earl Spencer's interview on the BBC. I've never liked the man and I think he's a hypocrite. However that does not necessarily mean that he is lying when he says that he was lied to by courtiers and told that the boys wanted to walk when it is obvious they didn't. Who asked/told them to walk, and why?
Reply With Quote
  #1153  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:01 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I listened to the podcast made of Earl Spencer's interview on the BBC. I've never liked the man and I think he's a hypocrite. However that does not necessarily mean that he is lying when he says that he was lied to by courtiers and told that the boys wanted to walk when it is obvious they didn't. Who asked/told them to walk, and why?
I don't know. I know it's what royals do for major royal funerals though. It's why thought it was appropriate and touching. I was wrong.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #1154  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:41 AM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 1,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Diana's brother says royal officials LIED to him that William and Harry wanted to walk behind their mother's coffin as he claims there have been four break-in attempts at her grave

If he wanted to protect her, why did he deny her a house on Althorp after her divorce?
Reply With Quote
  #1155  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:54 AM
princess gertrude's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbia, United States
Posts: 2,726
I have never been a big Earl Spencer fan. I just see him as someone that can't be taken on his word. (just a feeling) So I'm not sure what I believe on this latest bit of information. And I agree duchessrachel, I often wondered why Diana didn't return to Althorp.
Reply With Quote
  #1156  
Old 07-26-2017, 01:10 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
I have never been a big Earl Spencer fan. I just see him as someone that can't be taken on his word. (just a feeling) So I'm not sure what I believe on this latest bit of information. And I agree duchessrachel, I often wondered why Diana didn't return to Althorp.
The Earl knew that offering accomodation to Diana meant that the serenity of Althorp would be passé. The estate would be besieged by media -it was the height of the media witch hunt- and probably he thought that it really would not be too strange to expect that proper accomodation would be provided for the mother of the future King, by the high and the mighty.

Giving Diana a housing at Althorp means: easy solution for the royal family and the Government, and the burden was for the Earl's account. He was wise enough to keep distance.
Reply With Quote
  #1157  
Old 07-26-2017, 01:25 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,305
Right. Otherwise, there would be no objective history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
If someone is a public figure and is "up for discussion", their faults are as much a part of their lives as their good points, so I think there's a point when one can discuss their faults provided it is done fairly and witout malice.
Reply With Quote
  #1158  
Old 07-26-2017, 01:28 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Earl knew that offering accomodation to Diana meant that the serenity of Althorp would be passé. The estate would be besieged by media -it was the height of the media witch hunt- and probably he thought that it really would not be too strange to expect that proper accomodation would be provided for the mother of the future King, by the high and the mighty.

Giving Diana a housing at Althorp means: easy solution for the royal family and the Government, and the burden was for the Earl's account. He was wise enough to keep distance.
That was my recollection as well, that Althorp could not accommodate the craziness that was Diana's life at the time. Security costs alone would have been astronomical.
Reply With Quote
  #1159  
Old 07-27-2017, 01:40 PM
LauraS3514's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Silicon Valley, United States
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
If he wanted to protect her, why did he deny her a house on Althorp after her divorce?
IIRC, he did offer her a house on the estate that was away from the front gate and deep into the private area away from the tourists who had been welcome since the 1970s. She, however, wanted a different house on the estate that was closer to the public area and therefore much harder to secure. That's what I remember from what was published before her death - it may or may not be fully accurate.
Reply With Quote
  #1160  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:33 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, United States
Posts: 1,036
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
IIRC, he did offer her a house on the estate that was away from the front gate and deep into the private area away from the tourists who had been welcome since the 1970s. She, however, wanted a different house on the estate that was closer to the public area and therefore much harder to secure. That's what I remember from what was published before her death - it may or may not be fully accurate.
I just read the book "Diana: Her True Story" and what I remember is that he had offered it to her but then took it back. I may be completely off because it has been awhile since I read it. If I am wrong I certainly don't want to spread disinformation. Hopefully someone can clear this up.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
althorp, diana princess of wales, diana's death and funeral, dodi fayed, paris, prince charles, prince of wales, princess diana, westminster abbey


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Death & Funeral of King Hussein Alexandria Royal House of Jordan 75 02-19-2018 12:28 AM
Death & Funeral of Prince Alexandre Stefan Royal Family of Belgium 136 08-15-2010 09:53 PM
Death and Funeral of HI&RH Archduke Karl Ludwig (1918-2007) Marengo The Imperial House of Austria 27 11-10-2009 09:50 AM
Death & Funeral of Countess Sonja Bernadotte: October 21 and 25, 2008 Hanna Regina Swedish Royal History 15 10-27-2008 12:44 PM




Popular Tags
abdication abu dhabi american history anastasia anastasia once upon a time ancestry archie mountbatten-windsor background story baptism biography british royal family brownbitcoinqueen carolin chittagong commonwealth countries countess of snowdon customs doll duke of sussex facts family tree games george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf haakon vii hill history house of windsor imperial household intro italian royal family jack brooksbank jacobite japan jewellery kids movie line of succession list of rulers luxembourg mailing meghan markle monarchy nepalese royal jewels prince constantijn prince dimitri princess alexia (2005 -) princess chulabhorn walailak princess ribha queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen mathilde queen maxima random facts royal dress-ups royal jewels royal marriage royal re-enactments. royal wedding serbian royal family snowdon sussex swedish queen taiwan tracts tradition uae customs unsubscribe videos wittelsbach


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:51 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×