Last Hours, Death, Transfer from France, Funeral and Interment

[NGalitzine]

Does anyone know who is the current wealthiest aristocrat in Great Britain?

HIs Grace The Duke of Westminster KG is not only the wealthiest aristocrat he is also the wealthiest Briton (est 6.7 billion pounds), and the 4th weathiest man resident in the kingdom. The 3 weathiest are Indian and Russian billionaires.

 

[EIIR]

I would give some leeway to the Earl. At least the money coming from visitors will allow the estate to remain in the Spencer family. Think of what could happen if the Earl was forced to sell Althrop, including Diana's grave site, because he couldn't pay the taxes?

I suppose he also needs to top up his income to ensure he can meet all his divorce settlements and child support.

 

[sirhon11234]

HIs Grace The Duke of Westminster is not only the wealthiest aristocrat he is also the wealthiest Briton, and the 4th weathiest man resident in the kingdom. The 3 weathiest are Indian and Russian billionaires.

Thank you , I thought so. A few years ago I read that he was the wealthiest in Britain. But with the economy I didn't know if he still was.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

You really need to do some decent research and learn exactly how Earl Spencer receives his income! He is one of the wealthiest aristocrats in the UK and his wealth certainly does not come from the diminishing interest in his late sister. The Earl receives an income from the Althorp estate, that is agricultural rents as well as cottages, he also has 2 smaller estates in other parts of the UK. He also receives an income from forestry and commercial properties which are rented out.

Over the past few years he's overseen a huge project to reroof Althorp House as well as reattaching the tiles on the outside. The project cost 20 million pounds, 10 million pounds was raised by auctioning off the contents of the attics and stables at Althorp. The rest was self funded, no government grants were used.

The Earl runs a Literary Festival (started by his second wife) which is quite successful as well as writing books, non fictional historical tomes. ALthorp House is open for 8 weeks over the summer which is far less time than other privately owned stately homes (6 months is the norm) There is no extra cost for the Diana exhibition (which has fewer people coming to see it) there is however an extra cost if you want to see the upstairs gallery in the House itself. The Althorp estate website has a very tiny mention of Diana, you need to look for it! So Charles Spencer, despite his rather patchy marital history, is and has not exploited his dead sister! He makes far more money from his estates, than he ever has from the Diana exhibition. The exhibition to cover its costs now tours the US which is still 'Diana territory' and there are people there who are willing to pay to see it.

When she died the other option was for her to be buried in the local church with her Spencer ancestors, but it was very small and could not cope with what initially would have been large groups of people. By burying her at ALthorp, the family would have privacy and the 'crazies' would be kept away from her burial spot. It was the right decision to make.

Wow so making money off your hose is an honest days work in England?! If that's what you consider an honest days work then that is your opinion, but where I'm from running an ancestral house is not a job, it's more of a hobby.

 

[NGalitzine]

Wow so making money off your hose is an honest days work in England?! If that's what you consider an honest days work then that is your opinion, but where I'm from running an ancestral house is not a job, it's more of a hobby.

Running an ancestral house is a business like any other. They require a great deal of money to maintain and have to earn their keep. Thats why many great homes are open to the public, or in cases like Woburn Abbey have added golf courses or conference centres in order to earn money for the estate, or in cases like Highclere are rented as film sites That takes work.

Those that cannot earn money or be kept up are either sold to wealthy foreigners or taken over by the National Trust or left in decay. Rather like the cottages at Newport, Rhode Island owned by families like the Vanderbilts could no longer be maintained due to taxation and high costs so they were boarded up, sold or are now museum pieces.

Just how many centuries old "ancestral homes" with large estates still owned and lived in by the original families are their in the US anyway.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

We'll just have to agree to disagree; from what I've seen Diana's brother has mostly been cashing in on her name.

 

[NGalitzine]

We'll just have to agree to disagree; from what I've seen Diana's brother has mostly been cashing in on her name.

In other words you have no answer to your original comment that running an ancestral house in your country is a hobby and not a job. Fair enough, I was just looking for more detaiils on American ancestral homes since many of our stately homes are actually older than your country and are still lived in by the same families they were built for. The concept of an American stately home of similar size and vintage seems unlikely.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

If you want to continue this stupid debate than I can go all freakin night! What I was trying to to is be mature and let this stupid issue die which is clearly going off topic in a thread that is supposed to be about Princess Diana.
But just so you know, famous homes in the states usually belong to propel who actually accomplished something in their lives, for example Graceland, the home of Edgar Allen Poe, Jackie Kennedy's childhood home, Hyannis Port etc. They are famous for a reason, not just because they've been around for so long and the same titled family lives there. Most of these houses are landmarks and have been dubbed by their community or other organizations to be worthy of being saved from demolition or falling into decay. They are not necessarily just rich folks making money off their houses for no other reason than rich folks have owned them for centuries and now a dead princess is on the property; I say not necessarily because you can go either way with Graceland. These houses tend to have historical or cultural significance. But perhaps business, job, and historical significance in America means something different than in England which is why I said we should agree to disagree.

 

[Artemisia]

Most famous homes in Britain also belong to people who (or rather their ancestors) have accomplished something in their lives: they include famous generals, diplomats, explorers, scientists, writers - people who worked and achieved greatness for their country. Their descendants are tasked with maintaining their estate and are in a way keepers, rather than actual owners. Go back into any noble family's tree and you'll find more distinguished people than you banked for. In addition, the homes of famous non-noble people (such as writers and/or artists) are very much preserved as well.

Much as I detest Earl Spencer (the speach he gave at Diana's funeral was absolutely unforgivable), even I have to admit he has done his best to maintain Althorp without turning it into a Diana museum/shrine.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Most famous homes in Britain also belong to people who (or rather their ancestors) have accomplished something in their lives: they include famous generals, diplomats, explorers, scientists, writers - people who worked and achieved greatness for their country. Their descendants are tasked with maintaining their estate and are in a way keepers, rather than actual owners. Go back into any noble family's tree and you'll find more distinguished people than you banked for. In addition, the homes of famous non-noble people (such as writers and/or artists) are very much preserved as well.

Much as I detest Earl Spencer (the speach he gave at Diana's funeral was absolutely unforgivable), even I have to admit he has done his best to maintain Althorp without turning it into a Diana museum/shrine.

Exactly - the history in these estates is amazing and as you say many of them were given for service to either the nation or to the monarchy e.g. Blenheim was given to the Churchill family because the Duke of Marlborough won the Battle of Blenheim and a similar estate was given to the Duke of Wellington for his victory over Napoleon (both for a peppercorn rent). These families are then responsible for the upkeep of these homes - just like ordinary people are responsible for the upkeep of their home. Given the massive death duties that these families also have to pay, due to the value of the estates, they are then faced with a few options - sell the estates and lose the historical connection, sell chunks of the estate or open the house to the public to let them see some of the house and therefore some of the nation's history.

What is the difference between Earl Spencer opening his house for 8 weeks a year to help pay for its maintenance than the Queen opening BP for about 8 weeks a year, or Windsor almost year round or Sandringham etc.

I had no time for Diana or the Spencer family generally and have no interest in seeing Althorp but have enjoyed seeing many other grand homes in the UK e.g. Blenheim, Chatsworth, Sandringham, Windsor Castle, Hampton Court, Hardwick Hall etc etc.

Mods some of these posts probably should be in a separate thread and sorry for going off topic but somehow the discussion went that way.

 

[anbrida]

My most vivid memory of Diana is how I knew she's dead. I remembered it was a sunday noon around 12pm. My parent and I was having the lunch with a guest, and we were watching news on TV at the same time. I just remembered seeing a picture of Diana on the right top corner, and under the picture it read "1961-1997", so I knew immediately what happened even before the news reporter ever opened her mouth. And then the tear just went down which made me very embarassed because the guest was just sitting on my left. But it was beyond my ability to control it. The memory is so vivid that even utill now I still remember every detail of that day -- which picture of Diana they used in the news, the look of the news reporter, who was our guest and even what we eat in that lunch.

And then in the coming saturday afternoon, I came back from school planning to watch the funeral. But so unluckily, I came back home and found out there were several guests in my house again. Okay, have to fight with the tear again. I was okay until Elton John's singing. His singing itself was not the problem because my English was very poor at that time. However, in the middle of his singing, some picture of Diana and her boys pop up in the TV. It was at that moment I was beaten, and the tear just came out.

BTW, a little information about how a Chinese see the date of her death. We Chinese usually use lunar calendar to mark the date of a person's death. In this case the date of her death was not Aug 31, but July 29.

 

[cepe]

During the funeral of Diana, the POw, William, Harry, DoE and Earl Spencer joined the funeral cortege and walked behind it to Westminster Abbey. I thought that they joined it at Buckingham Palace but, having read Wiki recently, they are saying that they walked from Kensington Palace.

Does anyone here know which one it was?

Thank you.

 

[tihkon2]

Does anyone here know which one it was?

Actually they joined the funeral procession from outside St. James' Palace.

 

[KPWillie]

Actually they joined the funeral procession from outside St. James' Palace.

That's right, the PoW, Earl Spencer, Prince Phillip, and Princes Willam, and Harry were waiting outside St. James Palace where they joined the procession.

 

[sirhon11234]

Was Charles involved in choosing some of the music for the funeral service?

 

[Jaya]

I have never understood the death of Diana.
I had seen Jackie shopping many times in Athens at the bottom of Hermou Street and then ascend to the roof of the building escaping the paparazzi filling the roads and leave by an awaiting helicopter.
I feel Diana who had had this chronic problem of being hounded could have used a helicopter. It might have prevented the chaotic situations of navigating roads and prevented her death. I hope Diana rests in Peace.

 

[grevinnan]

I have never understood the death of Diana.
I had seen Jackie shopping many times in Athens at the bottom of Hermou Street and then ascend to the roof of the building escaping the paparazzi filling the roads and leave by an awaiting helicopter.
I feel Diana who had had this chronic problem of being hounded could have used a helicopter. It might have prevented the chaotic situations of navigating roads and prevented her death. I hope Diana rests in Peace.

Jackie had Onassis and his lifestyle to rely on. Slightly different circumstances.

 

[HRHHermione]

I have never understood the death of Diana.
I had seen Jackie shopping many times in Athens at the bottom of Hermou Street and then ascend to the roof of the building escaping the paparazzi filling the roads and leave by an awaiting helicopter.
I feel Diana who had had this chronic problem of being hounded could have used a helicopter. It might have prevented the chaotic situations of navigating roads and prevented her death. I hope Diana rests in Peace.

Well, she was with a man who made poor decisions and she had dismissed her own protection officers by that point, and the driver of her car was incredibly intoxicated and not a licensed chauffeur.

Diana's death was incredibly tragic, but it's not exactly a mystery at this point.

 

[gfg02]

The men behind princess's funeral share their stories

The men behind princess's funeral share their stories | Tunbridge Wells People

 

[sarahew88]

Diana's Burial

I understand this very long conversation has been long said and done.

I have read about 10 pages of it and now have even more questions.

About the glass in the coffin. For the life of me, I cannot remember where it was that I read that, but I do remember reading that Diana mentioned to someone once that when she dies she wants a coffin with a little glass opening for people to see her face. It might have been wish/ramblings of a young woman. But certainly it had something to do with the fact that she KNEW millions would be curious and she did not want them wonder, maybe she wanted them to see she was dead to know for sure. And maybe this has something to do with her father passing. I don't know. But I am sure if there was a glass in that coffin, by now someone would have said so. And for a fact I read that statement YEARS before she was killed.

About the possibility of Charles or William wanting to move her body later. I don't know why, but this just strikes me as no no no never. The boys seem to have a good relationship with the Spencer'. And lets not forget the Spencer's have more Royal blood than the Windsor's do. I just cant fathom anyone moving her, and if they did I am SURE the Spencer's would ENGAGE over it.

Last, the idea that William would restore her HRH title. Lovely. That has never crossed my mind and just the thought of it. Wow. What a very cool thing that would be. Fingers crossed on that one!

This was so long ago it seems But to this day, when I remember those boys stepping into the street behind their mothers coffin; I lose my breath all over again.

 

[NGalitzine]

And lets not forget the Spencer's have more Royal blood than the Windsor's do. .

That has got to be one of the silliest claims ever. No matter how often it gets repeated it still makes me laugh. What nation has the House of Spencer ever reigned over? Which reigning monarchs are they cousins to? It would seem that the House of Windsor and their ancestors have reigned over Britain for 1000 years but I have never seen a Spencer on the list of British monarchs. We have certainly seen members of the BRF married to foreign monarchs but I dont think we have seen a member of the House of Spencer married off to a foreign monarch. Certainly until the last 60 years when rules startyed tp relax on the continent it is unlikely any of the continental royals would have considered the daughter of an English earl as "equal" nor allowed them to marry the heir to a continental throne.

 

[Iluvbertie]

And lets not forget the Spencer's have more Royal blood than the Windsor's do.

Identifying any royal blood in the Spencers is easy - Stuart, Tudor, Plantagenet, Norman - as they are direct descendents of Charles II and thus from those earlier English royal houses. But the Windsors are also a descendent of those same royal houses as descendents of James I and VI's daughter - namely Charles II's aunt.

They also have descent from the Hanoverians, the Schlessig-Holsteins, the Hessians, the Saxe-Coburgs, the Romanovs etc etc etc that didn't come into the English/British royal lines until the later marriages of the Hanoverians into the British royal house.

The claim of 'royal blood' and 'Stuart blood' comes about because people don't know the claim of the Hanoverians to the British throne and think that they were plucked from no where when in fact they were simply the first protestant descendents of James I and VI.

Last, the idea that William would restore her HRH title. Lovely. That has never crossed my mind and just the thought of it. Wow. What a very cool thing that would be. Fingers crossed on that one!

William allegedly made that remark shortly after his parents' divorce while she was still alive. It might have made sense to have his mother with the rank of HRH once he was king, and she was alive, but to restore it to a dead woman would be rather strange. There would be no point. I don't think he would do so now for the simple reason that she has been gone for so long.

 

[Magdalene]

When Diana died, I went out and bought every single newspaper, magazine, EVERYTHING I could find. I'm in Los Angeles, so not only did Zi buy everything local, I had access to all the NY papers, etc. of course the magazines come out later. I'm getting ready to move and I don't think I can bring this box with me. Do you think this is something worth selling - do any of you think a collector would be interested? I'm going to post this another Diana forum, but in the meantime, I thought I'd ask here first. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. It's a regular file box, filled to the brim, carefully tended, and in excellent condition. The newspapers were all the first news editions of the tragedy. Thanks, Magdalene

 

[sarahew88]

I did the same thing as well as having my UK friends send me their versions also. I am sure one day the box of the lot will be worth something. But just yesterday I was pricing books on Ebay and it doesn't look good. Even all the stuff I bought when she got married is selling for a few bucks when I know I spent $10 - $18 per. I truly have a hoarde and want to keep key items for posterity and for the future when it really does become valuable. But for the most part, the excess I would like to toss. (or sell!)

 

[Dman]

Summer 1997 is filled with painful memories for everyone.

 

[Jacknch]

When Diana died, I went out and bought every single newspaper, magazine, EVERYTHING I could find. I'm in Los Angeles, so not only did Zi buy everything local, I had access to all the NY papers, etc. of course the magazines come out later. I'm getting ready to move and I don't think I can bring this box with me. Do you think this is something worth selling - do any of you think a collector would be interested? I'm going to post this another Diana forum, but in the meantime, I thought I'd ask here first. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. It's a regular file box, filled to the brim, carefully tended, and in excellent condition. The newspapers were all the first news editions of the tragedy. Thanks, Magdalene

If you don't want to keep the box, then you should certainly try selling it (with a reserve price - i.e. the minimum you will accept) on Ebay. I am quite sure someone will want to buy it! Good luck!

 

[Magdalene]

Thanks, everybody who answered! It's so strange - initially I bought everything in a state of shock and wanting some answers. Then I realized that maybe someday they might be worth something. NOW...they make me so sad and part of me wants to just close that whole event and not think about it and I would feel better if I knew someone who was really passionate about the history and life of Diana would want it and take care of it/and or appreciate it or use it. Before I list it on Ebay, if anybody here knows someone who would want it, I would give it to them. I live in California and in the US we can send boxes of literature "book rate." I don't know about the most cost efficient way to get things to Europe. If someone wants it from here, all I would ask is that they are really interested in Diana and that they would pay for the postage. Let me know, and in the meantime, thank you again for your answers!

 

[NGalitzine]

Given that everything was mass produced I really doubt any of the Diana memorabilia will have any real value.

 

[Mariel]

Concerning ancestral homes, I bumped into an old castle called Crookston Castle on the internet, the site of which says it was the first castle taken over by the National Trust. It is a stone castle which belonged to the Darnley Stuarts in the 15th century; before that incarnation it was a wood castle build by an ancestor of mine, Robert de Croc (12th century founder of Crookston, which is now a part of Glasgow). Only the original moat remains. There are several sites showing the 15th century stone castle, including interior video, which shows how gloomy and primitive such old castles could be. There is an elementary school called Crookston Castle Primary across the street. My Pollock ancestors lived in the area around Crookston Castle, which is now a "council house" area housing 30,000, from what I read (seems like a large population, but the views of the council house area, called Pollock, are extensive). My ancestor Robert de Pollock married the daughter of de Croc, Isabel, whose mother was Eschyna de Molle, who later married Walter Fitzallen, another neighbor who became well known as the first High Steward of Scotland.

 

[NGalitzine]

^^^^^
And the connection to Diana's death, funeral would be ?????