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  #261  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I find that rumour hard to believe, though I have heard it before. Yes, Diana and Jemima had similar looks. However, Diana also had Spencer characteristics and resembled her siblings.

At the time Frances and Johnny were desperate to produce a male heir. What if Diana had been a boy, and therefore the heir? Aristocratic males were tolerant, but not that tolerant. It was usually after the heir and spare arrived that the supposed custom is that they looked the other way. And that usually happened in the days of very large families.
I agree, and so does this article from the Daily Fail, which points out Frances was hardly likely to have been conducting an affair when Diana was conceived:

Were Diana and Jemima sisters? | Daily Mail Online
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  #262  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:51 AM
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well, interesting that it is from the Daily Mail but that article threw ice water over that story, going into detail just how improbable if not impossible iy is for the speculative rumor to be true.
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  #263  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:08 AM
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The wild and unfounded conspiracies about Diana and her side of the family will drive you up the wall.
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  #264  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:13 AM
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And don't we here have another family driving us up a wall and close to being over that darn wall with the moot below....
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  #265  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post

And don't we here have another family driving us up a wall and close to being over that darn wall with the moot below....
Exactly! We’re living in a crazy time.
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  #266  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:04 PM
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It's interesting that the rumors regarding Diana's paternity didn't emerge until August 2004, two months after Frances Shand Kydd's death, when she was unable to defend herself. Or sue for libel. I was never a fan of hers but the poor woman did her best to provide the Spencers with an heir. IMO calling her integrity into question by insinuating she was willing to slip a cuckoo into the nest is disgraceful.
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  #267  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:08 PM
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Time to move on from this speculative discussion.
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  #268  
Old 10-15-2018, 07:37 PM
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Frances Roche inspected wedding gifts with her mother and sister.
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/50393045
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  #269  
Old 10-17-2018, 01:33 PM
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For me the villain of the Spencer family is Ruth Fermoy.
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  #270  
Old 10-17-2018, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
For me the villain of the Spencer family is Ruth Fermoy.
She was a woman ruled by ambition.
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  #271  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
She was a woman ruled by ambition.
Why was Lady Fermoy ruled by ambition?
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  #272  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Why was Lady Fermoy ruled by ambition?
As a close friend and Woman of the Bedchamber to the Queen Mother she of all people knew how unsuited Charles and Diana were. But aside from a mild warning to Diana she chose to remain silent. Born into an upper middle class family IMO she welcomed the thought of her granddaughter marrying the future king. She also testified against her own daughter - Diana's mother - when Frances and Johnnie Spencer divorced.
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  #273  
Old 11-01-2018, 12:32 AM
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It was totally unfair that Johnnie had Frances tested to find out why she wasn’t having healthy boys; it’s the father who determines the sex of the baby! But I suppose they didn’t know that in the late 1950’s.
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  #274  
Old 11-01-2018, 03:01 AM
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Genetics is a wonderful thing and we're learning more and more each year. In the late 50s, medical science was a lot different than we know of it today. In fact, PMS hadn't been invented yet and women were told its all in their heads and given "mother's little helpers" to get through the day. I can attest to it still being somewhat the case even in the early 70s.

I've always had an amusing idea that I'd love to time travel back to the time of Henry VIII as a photographer with a geneticist in tow and capture forever the look on Henry's face when it sinks in that its *his* genes that are producing girl children.

As for Frances, I highly doubt that there was any kind of tests at the time to determine why a woman bore one sex of a child over another. As it happened, Frances did produce two boys. John, the child that died before Diana was born and later on, Charles.
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  #275  
Old 11-01-2018, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Genetics is a wonderful thing and we're learning more and more each year. In the late 50s, medical science was a lot different than we know of it today. In fact, PMS hadn't been invented yet and women were told its all in their heads and given "mother's little helpers" to get through the day. I can attest to it still being somewhat the case even in the early 70s.

I've always had an amusing idea that I'd love to time travel back to the time of Henry VIII as a photographer with a geneticist in tow and capture forever the look on Henry's face when it sinks in that its *his* genes that are producing girl children.

As for Frances, I highly doubt that there was any kind of tests at the time to determine why a woman bore one sex of a child over another. As it happened, Frances did produce two boys. John, the child that died before Diana was born and later on, Charles.

In Henry VIII's time, if a queen had a girl or a stillborn boy, she was often blamed for it, as in The Other Boleyn Girl when Anne was harshly questioned "What did you do to kill the baby?" when her baby boy was miscarried with deformities. As we know today, miscarriages are nature's way of getting rid of a non-viable fetus, where the chromosomes may not have aligned properly, and some women are more prone than others for sometimes unknown reasons. My great-aunt had several among her four living children.
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  #276  
Old 08-22-2020, 12:37 PM
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Frances Shand Kydd on a TV chat snow 1999
https://youtu.be/q8hqIri_SKc
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  #277  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:21 AM
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If Frances and Earl Spencer had not divorced, how would this have influenced Diana's outlook on marriage?
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  #278  
Old 08-23-2020, 04:35 AM
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That's a question almost impossible to answer.
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  #279  
Old 08-24-2020, 03:11 PM
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In a perfect world, I believe the mother and father would have expressed extra caution with a royal prince, until she had spent a lot of time with him. If..if..if, if she was level headed I think she would not have liked him so much, and he could have had Camilla all he wanted for himself.


However, he wanted Lady Diana to go to Buckingham Palace the next day, but she said, "No". So it sounded as she started out being cautious and/or respectable. He let her down and then eventually she let herself down as well. A doting mother and father would have made a difference I would like to believe.


The day draws near for the 23rd anniversary of her death and it always lays heavily on my mind. My cousin called me from Wales over the weekend and it was on her mind as well. (Just speculation on my part as I have no clue).
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  #280  
Old 08-25-2020, 07:34 PM
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If Diana had turned him down, he'd look for another young aristo, it would be doubtful he'd move on to Camilla as a wife, and she was married to another man.
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