Different Facets of Diana


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My guess is she would have been one of those women who find the aging process rather difficult, more so if she was to be compared to a younger woman all the time.
 
My guess is she would have been one of those women who find the aging process rather difficult, more so if she was to be compared to a younger woman all the time.

When Diana married Charles, she was basically an insecure young woman that had no clue of what a marriage involved. Like in a romance novel, she believed in the "happy ever after" and that she could mold the relationship between her and Charles once they were married and he was hers. She had a set idea of what a perfect marriage should be like and unfortunately they only exists in novels and fairy tales. I think her biggest insecurity was that she couldn't accept anyone being close to Charles and she felt that was her place to be his mainstay in every aspect of his life and anyone who threatened that, threatened her. Once the marriage was underway, Diana caused a lot of changes from the household staff around Charles and also to who he could and could not be friends with and associate with too. In other words... she was needy, demanding and willful. Charles had no clue how to really deal with this kind of thing and the marriage degenerated. When the marriage was obviously not on good terms, he did what a million other people did. Turn to the friends he'd been denied through the relationship.

I've always wondered what would have been if Diana had been confident enough in her own self and her relationship with Charles that she would have recognized Camilla as one of his best friends and accepted that? But then again, that would have only happened if she herself had a deeper, more intimate relationship with Charles before they married.

I do think it was the public duties, the way the masses perceived Diana, was what gave her the motivation to actually grow up and become her own person.
Narcissism, I think, kind of helped her to build up her own self worth and self image and perhaps in overdoing it, she upstaged the Queen and the PoW but I think she also eventually balanced it out. The Diana at the time of her marriage and the Diana at the time of her death were two totally different people. Life does that.. it changes people.

I don't think we can put the young, needy Diana or a timeofdeath Diana into a today 50something Diana as there are too many variables. We can only go by the history that we do have and let her rest in peace.
 
This is a very interesting discussion. I am a little worried that the moderators will start to worry that we are rehashing the marriage too much, but I think this discussion is focusing on important facets of Diana's character.

I don't think there is any doubt that Diana deluded herself about her relationship Charles, but I'm not talking about the fact that she didn't realize he wasn't "in love" with her. It was more than that: Diana didn't understand that he couldn't marry just for love.

Many people assumed that Charles focused only the fact that she was untouched and aristocratic (which certainly played a role). But one of the main attractions for Charles was that Diana seemed to be able to handle the media attention. From everything I have read, Charles and the palace were very impressed with her grace when dealing with photographers camping at her front door and following her everywhere she went. I think that is why Charles thought she was more secure and mature then she actually was.

In retrospect that was a red flag, but having someone who wouldn't fall apart under media pressure was something Charles absolutely needed in a wife. It is a known fact that Camilla absolutely hated the attention that went with dating Charles and several other girlfriends broke up with him for the same reason. Let's pretend the same set of facts except that Diana wasn't able handle the media, I don't think Charles would have married her.

But in the end, it was a double edged sword. Diana was a mass of contradictions on many levels, but her relationship with the media was love-hate. It eventually destroyed her. I'm not just talking about just the fact that the photographers were pursuing her, but also that she ran away from them that particular night. Even more, the fact that her choice to court the media was the reason the photographers relentlessly pursued her in the first place.
 
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There was not too long ago in the Charles and Camilla - The Marriage (2005-on) a question raised where could there be a discussion of the C/D/C thing and we were actually directed to the Diana subforum but with warnings

"Note: [not directed at Roslyn] Heated arguments, repeated fabrications and misstatements [lies], personal clashes, deliberate provocations, tasteless comments and anything else the Moderators deem inappropriate will be deleted without notice or apology." (from Warren)

The different facets of Diana seems to be the best place and so far I've really enjoyed the discussion
 
I think everything happens for a reason and I also believe in destiny. I think Diana & Charles was meant to meet, marry and have children. Even though the marriage didn't last, I think there was a purpose to it. We wouldn't have William & Harry if they didn't get together.

I like taking the time to appreciate their short union and not just focusing on the bad. I think Charles also thank Diana for giving him the two men he's so proud of and clearly adore.

That´s true, I also believe that there is a reason behind everything that happens in life,even if we do not see or understand it. What is most important is that we try to make the best out of what life gives to us-even if it is bad and painful.
I do not believe that Diana and Charles were meant to be because they had very different personalities & hobbies, but they were both interested in charity and providing a good future for their sons. That´s what is the positive part and what will remain,because IMHO the marriage was doomed to fail :-(

To me Diana was very devoted to other people because she was an extraverted person and she was feeling most comfortable when she was able to communicate with other people. Giving hope,making people smile and trying to help them has given her a purpose,something meaningful that was worth her efforts. She did use her fame to promote important causes,at least she used her celebrity status and the massive attention she got from the press for something positive and meaningful.
There was a very interesting interdependence between the press and Diana-when she got engaged she was very shy and did not know how to handle the paparazzi and how to present herself,but over the years she learned how the media worked and she used it for her own interests too. They were making lots of money with her image and the (often completely fabricated) stories about her while she could use the media to create a positive image & get more attention for her charitable causes.
Diana also manipulated the media to tell her version of events about the marriage and divorce,something that I do not like because I believe couples should try to sort out their issues in private. She must have felt very angry and desperate during that time,maybe it was her way of taking "revenge" because she felt treated unfairly,the Panorama interview is of the same kind. It must have been liberating for her to talk about everything and expose the Windsor family,but it severely damaged the reputation of the BRF, especially Charles & Camilla.
After the divorce she seemed to be more confident and secure in her public role, she cut down on her work a bit,took time for herself and only selected a few charities that were very close to her heart. Just like Charles she had her main subjects and projects of interests and focused on promoting these causes. Rather than going from one meeting to another completely event she could concentrate, get immersed into the projects and work more efficiently.

All that said, I can say that I appreciate and respect Diana,Charles & Camilla for very different reasons-I try to see them as whole beings,not just in black & white:flowers:
 
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Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the media eventually begin to turn against Diana in the last few years of her life? Especially after the divorce.
 
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That´s true, I also believe that there is a reason behind everything that happens in life,even if we do not see or understand it. What is most important is that we try to make the best out of what life gives to us-even if it is bad and painful.
I do not believe that Diana and Charles were meant to be because they had very different personalities & hobbies..........................,:flowers:


Blauerengel, it occurs to me that any kind of mutual interest would be a hard thing to find between a girl who hadn't yet become an adult woman and a man who had never been young.

However, there were moments. My late partner attended a party at the Royal Opera House during which a sketch from Romeo and Juliet was performed. Suddenly there appeared on the balcony NOT Juliet but Diana calling for her Romeo. Undaunted, Charles called for the stage manager to find him a ladder which he proceded to climb to access his Juliet. I don't think I need to tell you that their audience loved it. My late partner found himself at one point rubbing shoulders with her and confirmed that she was every bit as beautiful as she was said to be. He used the word "luminous."
 
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the media eventually begin to turn against Diana in the last few years of her life? Especially after the divorce.

I'm not sure that the media turned against Diana as much as they are under a lot of pressure to find new material. Most media accepted Diana's version of events as absolute fact up until the time of the divorce. Broadcast ratings and sales of magazine and newspapers were way up, but they had to introduce new material. How many more times could they print the story of the wronged 20 year old girl who married a prince.

Also, Diana was moving on and doing new things, but she was making poor choices in her personal life. A lot of good will towards her was tied to her image as a good mother, but her sons were growing up and hated the press, so she couldn't just alert the press that she was taking them to an amusement park as often.

She was also dating again. Her romance with Dodi garnered criticism, not because he was a Muslim, but because most of us couldn't see the attraction.
 
I'm not sure about her romance with Dodi. I really think his father tried to push his son on a lonely woman, despite him being engaged to another. Diana got herself into a bad situation with the Al-Fayed's, IMO.
 
Hanging out with the Al Fayeds does no ones reputation any good. The source of Mohammed Al Fayeds wealth has always been questionable and every British government (Conservative & Labour) since the early 70s had denied his request for British citizenship.
 
I felt bad that Dodi and the driver was killed as well but those turn of events turns my stomach even today. I totally understand when William & harry said back in 2007, they think about that night all the time, they still have questions and don't think the truth will ever be known.
 
Blauerengel, it occurs to me that any kind of mutual interest would be a hard thing to find between a girl who hadn't yet become an adult woman and a man who had never been young.

However, there were moments. My late partner attended a party at the Royal Opera House during which a sketch from Romeo and Juliet was performed. Suddenly there appeared on the balcony NOT Juliet but Diana calling for her Romeo. Undaunted, Charles called for the stage manager to find him a ladder which he proceded to climb to access his Juliet. I don't think I need to tell you that their audience loved it. My late partner found himself at one point rubbing shoulders with her and confirmed that she was every bit as beautiful as she was said to be. He used the word "luminous."

It is certainly true,that a young,unexperienced woman has less in common with a much older,highly educated man who has been around highly important people from the day he was born. He grew up in the Royal family and he knew the system,the media and what was expected from him. Diana and Charles certainly adored each other and there may have been what we call "love", but for a long-lasting relationship we need more than just affection and romantic feelings.
A strong friendship like Camilla and Charles are having is a good foundation for a sound marriage,the first romantic infatuation and physical attraction fades away, but a strong bond of friendship and mutual respect is able to carry people through the difficult and hard times too.
One of Diana´s close friends said in an interview that for Diana,Charles always represented the "ideal man", he was her "reference point" and she would compare all her lovers to her ex-husband.
From a neutral point of view this is quite understandable because he is very intellectual,refined and well-mannered and just like Diana he is very interested in doing charity through the work of his POW-foundation.
On the other hand Charles admired Diana because she had many qualities and character traits that he did not have so much, she seems to me like a humorous, open-minded and free-spirited person who often laughed about her own mistakes and weaknesses.This is something I particularly like about Diana,because she was aware of her difficulties and problems,but still she was able to laugh about it and even joke about it in some of her official speeches ;-)
As we say, opposites attract, but the whole differences+the media pressure+demands of the RF and the huge difference in age and experience was no good for the marriage, even though I believe that they would be good friends by now if it had not been for that terrible accident.

Thanks for sharing this lovely story of C&D in the Royal Opera House,I did not know that story,but it sounds very amusing!
I would love to see Catherine and William do the same,it is such a funny idea to play this famous Romeo & Juliet scene :lol:
Your partner was very lucky to get so close to the Princess, I am sure that he really enjoyed this special encounter & memory. She truly had a "luminous" presence, there was something about Diana that is impossible to describe, she was radiating so much grace & charisma :flowers:
 
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I often wondered if Diana ever thought about Mrs Hoare or Mrs Carling etc while she was having affairs with their husbands. She talked about how her marriage was crowded because there were 3 people in it, yet she spent time as the 3rd person in other marriages.
 
I often wondered if Diana ever thought about Mrs Hoare or Mrs Carling etc while she was having affairs with their husbands. She talked about how her marriage was crowded because there were 3 people in it, yet she spent time as the 3rd person in other marriages.

That is another facet to Diana's character. She truly believed she was the victim and felt her own pain. But she rarely, if ever, acknowledged how some of her actions hurt other people.
 
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Yeah, Diana was doing her dirty work too while complaining about Charles's affair. It was a messy time and I'm glad it's all over. She wasn't a perfect person nor a saint. She was human and had her flaws.

What saddens me is that Diana is now gone on. As Harry said, her passing changed their lives forever. She's a missed woman.
 
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I agree and in many ways she was remarkable. It was courageous of her to reveal that she suffered from a mental illness (although I wish she hadn't blamed it on Charles). I think she lessened the stigma and inspired a lot of people to get help.
 
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I'm not sure about a mental illness but she did suffer from Bulimia and depression. Her personal life didn't make things easier.

I too like that she spoke out about her bulimia and depression. I also like that she was open about her marriage. Although I don't encourage anyone to really air they're dirty laundry out in public but I think she had a way of letting people know that despite her being a princess and future Queen, living in palaces/castles and having all this great privilege, it didn't mean she didn't have issues and personal struggles.

You think royalty and other well off public figures should be happy and grateful for what they have and not complain but they too have major problems and lives aren't that perfect. That's why I'm glad I was raised to not be envious of anyone who may have more than me because, despite everything, their lives aren't as perfect as one may think.

The Wales's weren't getting the proper help they needed, the world's media was on their backs 24/7 and they had a great deal of pressure on them. I just happen to think if Diana didn't vent her anger, hurt and pain at all, she probably would've taken her own life.
 
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I'm not sure about a mental illness but she did suffer from Bulimia and depression. Her personal life didn't make things easier.

Dman, both bulimia and depression are mental illnesses. One of her lasting legacies is that her admission that she was mentally ill helped other people to admit they were suffering as well. There is nothing wrong with being mentally ill.
 
Dman, both bulimia and depression are mental illnesses. One of her lasting legacies is that her admission that she was mentally ill helped other people to admit they were suffering as well. There is nothing wrong with being mentally ill.

Yes, I know. I just looked at it a bit differently. I'm glad we are having these conversations without attacking one another.
 
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Yes, I know. I just looked at it a bit differently. I'm glad we are having these conversations without attacking one another.

Thanks for saying that. Although we disagree, I respect your opinion and am enjoying the discussion. It's a lot more fun when people don't take differences of opinion personally.
 
Diana's gift was to be able to make people (especially those who had never even met or seen her in person) feel as if they knew her well. I agree with other posters that the beauty, grace and charitable works played a role as well, but to me - she connected quickly, positively and intimately with both men and women (more women, though) in a way I have never experienced before and do not believe I will see again in my lifetime. She died around the same time as my sister and I cried for both of them, when one would think a sister's death would isolate one from that of a public figure. And I am no Diana apologist. The lady had plenty of faults. What I loved about her is that she knew it too and didn't want people to see her as unflawed. Emotional honesty is rare, IMHO and very attractive in our world of reality shows that are "in reality", scripted.
 
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However, there were moments. My late partner attended a party at the Royal Opera House during which a sketch from Romeo and Juliet was performed. Suddenly there appeared on the balcony NOT Juliet but Diana calling for her Romeo. Undaunted, Charles called for the stage manager to find him a ladder which he proceded to climb to access his Juliet. I don't think I need to tell you that their audience loved it. My late partner found himself at one point rubbing shoulders with her and confirmed that she was every bit as beautiful as she was said to be. He used the word "luminous."

Thank you for sharing this story. It gives a nice little insight into the time when Charles and Diana were in love, and enjoyed being playful with one another.

Diana's gift was to be able to make people (especially those who had never even met or seen her in person) feel as if they knew her well. I agree with other posters that the beauty, grace and charitable works played a role as well, but to me - she connected quickly, positively and intimately with both men and women (more women, though) in a way I have never experienced before and do not believe I will see again in my lifetime. She died around the same time as my sister and I cried for both of them, when one would think a sister's death would isolate one from that of a public figure. And I am no Diana apologist. The lady had plenty of faults. What I loved about her is that she knew it too and didn't want people to see her as unflawed. Emotional honesty is rare, IMHO and very attractive in our world of reality shows that are "in reality", scripted.

This is a great post, and I agree with you 100 percent. Diana had a way of touching people, and most of them have never met her, or even seen her in person. This is a rare gift, but I feel that it's something she used to give others hope, especially those who were ill, or downtrodden. She showed the world that it was OK to cry, or to hurt, to basically NOT be OK, and that is something so many of us struggle with. She had faults, and there are some things she did that are downright cruel, but that just lets us know that even those we consider to be 'saints' are in reality, just humans, like ourselves.
 
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Actually, you hit on the most important point :flowers: ( I missed it completely) which is - that to me, one of the most amazing qualities Diana had was her desire and determination to do good with her gifts - even when the "grey men" sought to stop her (different reasons at different times, IMO).

Even after the way some of the RF and/or their courtiers had treated her and feeling like she'd been used as - in her own words - a "brood mare" and like a "lamb to the slaughter" concerning Charles - she still gave her all to help as many as she could, instead of the more common reaction, which would have been to brood, feel sorry for herself and hide in KP. Even when Charles humiliated her publicly on the night of the "adultery-Dimbleby" interview broadcast, she still went out - and in a dress to remember! Likewise and more importantly with her charities: The more they tried to stop her (with HIV/AIDS in particular when she first started highlighting it) the more she made sure she increased her focus. Being a pre-teen/teenager in those years, I was really aware of how much she did to de-stigmatize that awful disease. And the same with leprosy and land mines.

And it was so easy to see how genuine she was and how much she really cared about people, especially those treated shoddily by society for whatever reasons.

Sorry to be redundant, but I really do believe we will never see anyone like her - it takes a lot of strength to keep rebounding and to keep giving to others when one is constantly rejected by the family one has married into.
 
Aliza, I am so sorry that you lost your sister and I think it is incredible that in the midst of your family tragedy, you were generous enough to feel sympathy for Diana's family and friends, too.
 
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That is another facet to Diana's character. She truly believed she was the victim and felt her own pain. But she rarely, if ever, acknowledged how some of her actions hurt other people.

Diana had a strong sense of "its all about me" amd what was not about her did not especially interest her. I suspect that is why she so often picked up and dropped family and friends, either they were useful in feeding her sense of self or they were set aside. Anyone who was remotely critical or questioned her motives had to be set aside until they got back on the "its all about Diana" train.
 
In the thread discussing Diana's mental illnesses, we discussed whether she suffered from a personality disorder, such as narcissism. It's tempting to blame someone who suffers from mental illness for their actions, but they really perceive events very differently and they can't step back and see another point of view. Notice, I said "can't" not "won't" because Diana really couldn't see the affect she was having on people.

One thing that I admired about Diana was her ability to make people feel that they not only knew her, but if she actually met them, she would care deeply about them. I agree that it wasn't reality though. She would care about people as long as she was dealing with those who put her on a pedestal. She couldn't handle people who knew she wasn't perfect.

I think if she had lived longer, the new anti-depression medications and therapy techniques would have been able to help her.
 
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Diana had a strong sense of "its all about me" amd what was not about her did not especially interest her. I suspect that is why she so often picked up and dropped family and friends, either they were useful in feeding her sense of self or they were set aside. Anyone who was remotely critical or questioned her motives had to be set aside until they got back on the "its all about Diana" train.

I guess your impression that she was rather egocentric is because she was very emotional,clingy and afraid of being rejected,that´s why she may have wanted to get a lot of attention & love from the people around her. She has suffered a lot from the divorce of her parents and this "emotional scar" never fully recovered,it must have been devastating to live through such times for someone who is so sensitive like Diana certainly was.
She said that she leads from her heart and not from her head & she was very stubborn and determined when she believed in something. Her actions and efforts to help people in need,especially her anti-landmine work has shown that when she feels strongly about a topic,she tries to do everything to make it succeed! The same can be seen in her dedication and devotion to her sons, even if she made some mistakes like every human being does,she always tried to give her best and be the best mother to her sons.
The impression that she was self-centered may also be due to her mental issues,when you are depressed and suffer from low self-esteem,you constantly worry about your own problems and when someone critisized her she may have felt that this friend was not loyal and did not really love her and therefore she felt unable to keep the friendship up.
Nevertheless,she is also said to be forgiving, she often later regretted some of her actions and she tried to reconcile with some of the friends she has fallen out with. Personally I do not believe that she was egoistic, she truly cared about other people and she could easily connect with all ages,social classes and nationalities. A person who is really just caring about herself would not be able to connect and interact with other people in the same way that Diana did,she had a gentle touch and a lot of empathy for others.
 
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Your post is very insightful, particularly your analysis of how Diana's depression impacted her actions. She was incredibly unhappy and people who are unhappy often concentrate on their own needs to the exclusion of others.

However, although Diana suffered from depression, I don't think she was severely depressed. Severe depression can just suck all the joy out of life to the point that it is hard to get out of the house or even get out of bed.

But Diana was able to get out of the house, often. She seemed to really enjoy herself in public, even during times she was suffering from depression. I think she drew a lot of strength in the attention she was receiving from the public and the media. That's why I think that although she may have been depressed, she wasn't severely depressed--which is an important distinction. If she had been severely depressed, no outside stimulus (including public and media adoration) would have helped her.

However, Diana admitted that she suffered from bulimia and self cutting.
Many people who suffer from eating disorders and engage in self cutting, also suffer from personality disorders--it's not an insult, it is a medical condition. I believe that Diana's symptoms are consistent with personality disorder. Personality disorder also runs in families, which also explains why one of her sister had difficulties and may explain Diana's mother's issues.

Personality disorder wasn't well understood in the 80's, although the research was developing. With anti-depressants and therapy, Diana could have led a much happier and healthier life.

In fact, I think she was on anti-depressants during the last few years of her life. As Blauerengel notes, she seemed happier and was able to reach out to people she may not have treated fairly in the past. I wish that good anti-depressants had been more available to her throughout her life, I think medication would have prevented a lot of her suffering.
 
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Then again, Charles had some happy years with Diana and they went on to be blessed with two sons.
 
Diana never denied that there were happy times in her marriage. Diana had some issues and some came from her childhood days and Charles had some problems as well. Camilla played a big part though.

I prefer to believe that Camilla came into picture only after their marriage completely disintegrated..And when Charles badly needed some companion..
So her "playing a part" is just a myth created by Diana to shift the blame fully to him..
One more thing to justify that..Since Diana agreed that there were happy times, it means the early years of marriage were certainly Camilla-free..
So either Charles didnt give enough to Diana, leaving her to other men, or Diana didnt give enough to Charles, leaving him to Camilla.
I always believethere is no point in blaming a third person, so not at all big "part played by Camilla" in this case..
 
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